keeping orig menus but stripping extras in VTS_01?

[24junkie]

Hello all,

I suspect this may have been covered already but I can't seem to find anything that suggests how to do it.

I have successfully ripped a backup copy of a legally-purchased DVD-9 movie, and used IFOEdit and tutorials I've been able to find to strip out the non-English menus, extra audio soundtracks, and a few other space-saving things.

The basic layout of the original DVD is that the main movie and audio soundtracks are in the VTS_02_xx.VOB's, along with most of the menus. The VTS_01_xx.VOB's contain nothing I am interested in - the main thing being a 58-minute "making of" feature, with some setup and chapter menus for the extras also in the VTS_01_xx.VOB's.

I have tried, unsuccessfully, to strip out the VOB ID's of the items in the VTS_01 files, with IFOEdit. If I could just strip out this 58-minute "making of" featurette and the other junk (like the movie trailer), etc., all of which are in VTS_01, I am pretty sure I would be left with the main movie and 5.1 soundtrack which would fit on a single DVD-R, and still keep the original menus too.

By saying unsuccessfully, I mean that after using IFOEdit's Strip VOB ID's feature to strip out the VOB ID's of basically everything in VTS_01_xx.VOB files, and having it rewrite these VOB files, using IFOEdit's built-in DVD "player" to test out the results, instead of getting menu buttons that don't do anything at all when I push them (because those VOB's have been stripped), the built-in DVD viewer just hangs, and I have to kill IFOEdit and restart it.

I guess what I'm asking is, how can I get IFOEdit (or other tools, if others are better for this) to "defrock" menu items so nothing happens when they're selected, so that the VOB's the menu items point to can be stripped out? I know from reading that a DVD pretty much HAS to have a VTS_01_xx set of VOB files.

Thanks in advance for anyone who can offer suggestions, or point me to where this has already been documented.

24junkie

[defense]

Part of your problem is your method. Those IFOedit guides you've read just explain how to "strip" the main movie files. For example, in your case, the main movie is in the 2nd Vob Set. You can strip the main movie in IFOEdit and it will create new navigational packs.

But what you are doing is using IFOedit and trying to strip your menu's/extra's and I assume after IFOedit creates an output..your simply cutting the new output and placing it in the original movie folder?

Before I go any further, I see what you are trying to accomplish...so let me ask you.... what is the title of the movie you are trying to backup and is it NTSC or PAL?

[Savini]

Use MenuEdit. It allows you to kind of "block" menu items. You can't even put the cursor over those items, it just jumps to the next item.

[24junkie]

It's Apollo 13, region 1 widescreen edition.

The couple of tutorials I saw (over at Doom9) that I could use together did get me "almost there". Going by those did allow me to remove the extra audio tracks and non-English menus, the warning intro, and the "studio bump" that plays right before the movie. Which trimmed the VTS_02_xx.VOB files and VTS_02_00.VOB/IFO file down appropriately. And after doing that, the menu options were still available to select a different audio soundtrack, different lang subs, etc., but they don't actually do anything.

I guess that's sort of what I'd like to accomplish with removing the extras from the DVD rip, especially the 58-min documentary thing, and the movie trailer - which are both in the VTS_01_xx.VOB/IFO titleset. If I can get those stripped out, I'll be left with pretty much just the main movie with the original menus, which is the end goal.

I could easily rip just the audio and video streams, re-encode to reduce size a bit if needed, and re-author that to a DVDR, but if it could be done, would be really neat to keep the original menus. If I can get this down pat, I will probably start archiving all of my original DVD's and playing the backups, so if the backup gets scratched, whatever, no big deal.

Thanks,
24junkie

PS: I'll take a look at menuedit!

[24junkie]

Oh sorry it's NTSC

[defense]

@24junkie, first let me ask if you have ever heard of or used proggy's like INSTANT COPY 7 or DVD SHRINK? If your only purpose of elimating that 58 minute track is due make what you want to keep fit on a DVD-5 THEN I suggest you just use one of the above mentioned programs to make full disk/full menu backups.

You can accomplish what you want by changing some values within IFOedit....but here is the thing. First, I have never used IFOedit in that fashion, and I know some people write guides for many specific movies to be able to backup in this fashion. You said you were over at doom9 so i'm sure you've seen "2COOL's" guides. He specializes in this type of thing. You may want to go over there and PM him if you must have APOLLO 13 set up that way.

But as I said...I just reccomend a compressed backup with one of the two programs I mentioned. I have read that people who are trying to go the route you are have had many issues. Different standalone players react differently to the structure changes you are trying to perform. When you use IFOedit to strip a main movie, IFOedit accounts for that and re-creates those files accordingly with correct navigational structure.

Using programs such as menu edit I don't think are going to work because you aren't trying to disable buttons...you are trying to get this movie downsized enough to be able to fit onto a DVDR if i'm understanding correctly.

After you read the above suggesitons...this let me know what you think.

[24junkie]

Yep I have looked at DVDShrink and while it looks like it would be able to compress that documentary extra down a good ways, selecting the "still pictures" compression option still has it taking up 262MB. I'm sure it would look rather tacky doing that and it seems the best thing would be to get rid of it altogether.

I guess I'd rather remove as many extra space-consuming items as possible, since each other "extra" thing I can get rid of altogether will reduce the level of compression of the original movie necessary to have the whole thing fit on one DVDR, and possibly not have to recompress/re-encode the main movie at all.

I'm not afraid to recompress/re-encode the main movie video stream - I am a licensed TMPGEnc+ user and am getting fairly good at it. (and if the main movie video has to be recompressed I'm gonna use TMPGEnc to do it, not DVDShrink). But in my mind, if I could get rid of that documentary altogether, that 262MB of space that DVDShrink can reduce the documentary down to would be better utilized to increase the bitrate of the main movie's re-encode bitrate (or save me from needing to reencode it at all).

Sounds like stripping out stuff in the VTS_01 VOB's may not be such an easy/wise thing though.

I'll see if I can find 2Cool's posts and see what he's saying about stuff like this too.

Thanks,
24junkie

[defense]

@24 junkie, first let me mention that increasing the bitrate of a commercial DVD isn't gonna improve the quality to where you'll notice it...if improve it at all.

The next thing is that yes....trying to backup the way you are can cause a lot of issues because you aren't regenerating files...you are simply disabling and attempting to strip them. Different standalone players react differently, and even if you were successful with those methods...chances are you would only be able to play the disk in a limited number of standalone players. It's also nearly impossible to give you advice on how to accomplish this..because unlike most backup methods....this method isn't standard. Meaning that you would have to change different values for each movie. And without having APOLLO 13....I can't even experiment and tell you what should work.


I do suggest you try DVD SHRINK. You might not be as disappointed with the quality as you think. I've read a lot of posts where people have backed up full DVD9's to DVD5 and been very happy with the results. In many cases they have said they can't see a difference. Because DVD SHRINK works quickly..I suggest you at least TRY IT....using TMPGenc isn't going to yield you such great results for DVD either. Especially on a movie as long as I remember APOLLO 13 to be. Try DVD SHRINK and burn it to an RW and see how that works.

It can't hurt to try it..right?

[Gurm]

CLONE DVD.

I'll say it again.

CloneDVD.

It lets you selectively remove extras.

- Gurm

[lal]

Can we rip full DVD with the trial version of CLONEDVD?

[defense]

It's obvious that 24 junkie wants to maintain the highest of quality. I don't think CloneDVD is the best tool for the job. IN addition, DVD SHRINK is freeware, CloneDVD is Trail/ShareWare. I've read many more positive posts regarding DVD SHRINK then I have about DVD CLONE.

And considering that APOLLO 13 probably has the main PGC exceeding 7 GB's I think DVD shrink would be their best option. For both quality and price.

[Gurm]

If the movie and menus fit within the space of a DVD-R, CloneDVD will NOT transcode, it'll just rearrange the menus so that the removed extras are no longer there.

Yes, the trial version is full-featured (time-limited).

I agree that if the main movie will NOT fit, and is 7+GB, that CloneDVD is NOT the way to go.

But if (as I had presumed from the way he was talking) it will fit, just movies and menus, onto a DVD-R, CloneDVD will do that nicely.

- Gurm

[defense]

@ gurm, yea, you would be right then, since it isn't transcoding and the negative posts I read dealt with transcoding. I think the problem is that 24junkie is assuming that the main movie will fit by just deleting the trailers and 58 minute making of the movie feature. I don't have APOLLO 13, but i'd think that even removing that stuff may not allow the movie to fit onto a DVD-5 because that movie was really long and had a lot of action. Unless the bitrate is extremely low, they may not even be able to accomplish what they are trying to do even by removing all of the extras. The main movie probably will need to be reencoded.

[24junkie]

Hey everyone sorry I've been away from this thread I started. ..

Some of the last few posters seem to understand better what I was trying to do. I may not have been exceptionally clear about my goals.

I did not want to re-encode "just the movie" to try to improve on the quality. I do realize that it is basically not possible to make a reencoded video file look any better than the original (except for some very minor noise reduction, etc.). I know that from trying to clean up a set of TV episodes I collected over the net to try to remove blockiness, etc., before i burned them to multi-episode DVD's.

What I was really saying was that I didn't want the extras AT ALL, yet the best I could seem to accomplish with DVDShrink alone was to compress those extras down to "still pictures", which still took up a lot of space, rather than remove them altogether. So if I had gone this way with the project, that 262MB of space that DVDShrink could reduce the 58min documentary down to was a waste of 262MB space that would have been better utilized on re-encoding the main movie at a higher bitrate than I would have been able to if forced to leave the "still pictures" of the 58min documentary in there. Not to mention the fact that having to keep that documentary in the DVDR, even as a 262MB collection of still photos, may have been just enough wasted space to FORCE me to have to re-encode the original movie video just to make it fit on the DVDR.

But if I can get that documentary and other extras removed from the IFO's altogether, there is a very real possibility that I will not have to re-encode the main movie video stream at all - or if so, with only a slight amount of additional compression. It was getting pretty close, on the assumption that I could remove the unwanted extras somehow, to what I could squeeze onto a DVDR.

I think that states pretty well what I was looking for. Thanks to everyone who has posted additional tips and info. I will check them out, particularly CloneDVD.

in the meantime, I see that someone has posted a guide to do EXACTLY what I am trying to accomplish, using DVDShrink and DVDXCopy, and even better, his example DVD is Apollo 13... Here's the URL to his guide:

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/userguides/175347.php

Think I'll have a go at this route first.

24junkie