safe DVD-R write speed for standalone DVD players

[poopyhead]

hi everyone,

it's been awhile since i've last visited the forums. i believe i was aruging w/ kwad about "his" format.

anywayz, just wondering if there's a safe DVD-R write speed that i should use to make sure my DVD-R's are compatible with most standalone DVD players.

i know that for SVCDs, burning faster than 4x may cause some problems on certain DVD players.

i was wondering if burning DVD-R's at 2X will cause any problems.

i have pioneer a04 with the 2xall hack. i'm burning the princo cheapo media at 2x. i have a pioneer dv333 standalone. even if these DVD-R's i burn don't have any problems on my own standalone, i'm not sure about others, since the pioneer dv333 can literally play anything.

[poopyhead]

btw,

the cheapo princo i burned at 2x works, as expected, on my standalone pioneer dv333, but has a weird problem on my dvd-rom

i have 2, both of which are artec's. windows explorer seems to see the dvd-r disc fine and the files correctly, but winDVD doesn't seem to wanna play the dvd-r. i made sure windvd was pointing to the right drive and pressed the play button......nothing happened. i can play the vobs directly with windvd using its explorer function, but i kinda wanna play it normally

pioneer a04
dvddecryptor, dvdshrink, copytodvd (tested on FRIDA)

btw, i think i'm gonna burn the dvd-r's at 1X just be safe

[garryheather]

So long as you burn at a speed compatible with the media, you should be OK, although saying that, some recorders will write to certain media better than others because all manufacturers have their idea on what makes a good write strategy.

First of all, be careful with that hacked firmware. When you use media that has NOT been checked and / or certified by the manufacturer, the writer will fall back to what it thinks is the safest, most compatible strategy. By removing this check from the firmware you will probably be burning the disc in a different way than the optimal. Chances are it now burns all discs with the same write strategy and power for all discs, and while that might work for the cheap and nasty batch of discs the author of that firmware was using at the time, that does not mean it will work perfectly for each and every media now. The point is, if the media is not rated for the speed you are trying to burn it at, it will probably be on the edge of reliability. I always advise against hacked firmware - yeah, it's a bind sometimes, but I would rather wait a bit longer and get a good burn than rush it and wind up with a coaster. I advise you set it off, make yourself a coffee and / or get a hobby / life that means you don't sit in front of the monitor shouting "come on !!" while the writer does it's thing !



Compatibility is more down to the media itself and how well the disc was authored. Bend the rules and you're asking for trouble. The speed the disc was written at is not likely to be an issue on the whole.

As far as SVCD's go, I regularly burn at 52x with no problems - although sometimes the iffy media I've picked up means it does throttle back to say 24x or lower on occasions.

Don't forget some players will never play certain discs. Many of the earlier DVD players will not play recordable media due to discrepancies in the format and file allocation. A lot of DVD players will not play CD-R's at all, or be picky about the media. The same goes for DVD-ROM drives, I recently had to ditch my Matsushita SR-8586 which although a good, reliable drive, would not read DVD-R's at all ! My new Lite-On reads like a charm.

[poopyhead]

I always advise against hacked firmware - yeah, it's a bind sometimes, but I would rather wait a bit longer and get a good burn than rush it and wind up with a coaster. I advise you set it off, make yourself a coffee and / or get a hobby / life that means you don't sit in front of the monitor shouting "come on !!" while the writer does it's thing !

yea..that's why i've decided to go back to 1X. i don't think these cheapo princo's (about 78 cents each) are designed for anything faster than 1X. however, my first test burn at 2x seems to play fine on my standalone. i played for about 1 hr and no hiccups. however, like i said, i'm not sure if the same can be said for other standalones that are more picky.

i wasn't really worried about making a coaster cuz the a04 has buffer-underrun protection, but i just want to make sure there's no freezes or blockiness that comes with burning media too fast

Compatibility is more down to the media itself and how well the disc was authored. Bend the rules and you're asking for trouble. The speed the disc was written at is not likely to be an issue on the whole.!

really. burning at slower speeds seem to have helped many ppl earlier when i was hanging around the SVCD forums. granted, the faster you burn, the greater the chance for some kind of error. even if an error didn't occur, burning so fast doesn't seem to be as safe as burning slower. i heard that faster burning means the grooves made by the laser aren't as deep or something????

Don't forget some players will never play certain discs. Many of the earlier DVD players will not play recordable media due to discrepancies in the format and file allocation. A lot of DVD players will not play CD-R's at all, or be picky about the media. The same goes for DVD-ROM drives, I recently had to ditch my Matsushita SR-8586 which although a good, reliable drive, would not read DVD-R's at all ! My new Lite-On reads like a charm.

well, my artec's are really new and rip like crazy (one of them tops 10,000 KB/s ripping) i'm not sure if it's a winDVD problem. i have an older version of winDVD that came bundled with my artec. the dvd-roms read the dvd-r's fine w/ all the files showing up correctly. i can even play the vobs directly with winDVD, but winDVD just doesn't wanna play the dvd-r's like a regular DVD (i.e. autostarting with the menu's, etc...)

btw, i'm using copytodvd "registered" latest version 2.2 to burn the DVD. i was wondering if ppl are having compatibility issues with it. i heard nero's been giving that problem, but i assumed copytodvd was good.

[garryheather]

When I mentioned coasters, I did not mean buffer under-runs. I meant that a disc burnt at an inappropriate speed would probably be unreadable. I have an 04 myself - I don't think there's a burner on the market that doesn't have some sort of under-run protection these days.

Deeper groves on a CD-R ? Nah, not exactly. There is a groove on a CD-R, it's the pre-groove that the laser tracks. It has a slight wobble on it to allow for timing reference. If you burn at a slower speed then theoretically you can make a "cleaner" burn, but that's only down to the dye being burnt at a different rate. A pressed disc has pits in the surface, and they are usually pretty well defined. However a CD-R's equivalent of a pit can have jagged or streaked edges which make them a little harder to read. But as I say, if you burn at the rated speed you should be OK. I've even seen media now (granted, the high speed stuff), that say they should not be burnt at slow speeds. I have some Datawrites here that say 2x - 24x, and a wierd one in my collection at home from a company I've never heard of before that says 4x - 48x. Slowing the burn does not make a groove "deeper", but it does allow for more dye to burn off and it might make the edges of the burnt portions cleaner. It might also reduce media wobble, but modern drives can even take a moderate knock without knackering the burn, they're dampened that much.

I have NEVER had any problems with Nero when it comes to DVD's, and I've been using it for a very long time. Now authoring problems... that's a different matter ! I can't say I've used CopytoDVD but if the IFO files and VTS vectors do not correspond, you will get playback problems. If the disc does not play correctly, then I would be more tempted to say it's something along those lines instead of whatever it was that burnt the disc.

[poopyhead]

I can't say I've used CopytoDVD but if the IFO files and VTS vectors do not correspond, you will get playback problems. If the disc does not play correctly, then I would be more tempted to say it's something along those lines instead of whatever it was that burnt the disc.

o...i'm saying that the dvd-r plays perfectly on my standalone (pioneer dv333) even burnt at 2x on 1x cheapo princo media. however, it's when it's in my dvd-rom where winDVD seems to not wanna play it. like i said b4, the dvd-r and files are recognized by explorer and i can play the vobs directly in windvd, but windvd won't autostart with the menu's like normal DVDs. i'm not sure if it's winDVD, the dvd-r, or the dvd-rom.

dvddecryptor->dvdshrink 2.2->copytodvd 2.2

[poopyhead]

update, the single layer DVD bonus features i copied onto DVD-R plays fine on my artec dvd-rom...so i'm guessing that DVDshrink must have done something to the movie disc so that the dvd-r won't be able to play on my dvd-rom anymore

btw, both the single layer bonus DVD and the dual layer movie DVD from Frida were burned with copytoDVD 2.2, so i don't think it's the burning proggie that's causing the DVD-R not to be played by winDVD.

[falberni]

I've found out that if you have good media to work with, and using a Pioneer A04 with 1.40 hacked firmware, it doesn't make any difference if you burn at 1x or at 2x. To be certain how good the results are, you need to test them in a fast DVD ROM. I use Nero's CD Speed for testing. I run all the tests. The transfer test is most revealing. A good burn would show up as a straight line, starting at about 3.5 and ending around 8. No drop off from the straight line, no oscillations, no zigzags.

I have found ACCU media not to be very good. They are not consistent. You get some good ones and some bad ones. Same with Princos. OptoDisks are very good. I can burn them at 1x and at 2x and it does not make any difference.

Some other things to watch for in the CD Speed test. Watch the CPU usage. At 1x it should be less than 8%. Then it goes higher and higher at 2x, 4x, and 8x. It should never reach 100%. Some disks would have a straight line transfer rate, but then at 8x the CPU usage shows up at 100%. I would consider it suspect.

My Pioneer Standalone player would play anything I throw at it. But the disks that have glitches on the transfer test, usually end up having problems on other people's standalones.

You can not use your DVD burner for CD Speed testing. Since the transfer rate has been set to around 2.1, the transfer test would show up as a horizontal line, rather than a sloping line. Bad disks would show good results when tested in the burner.

There are some other ways you can test a disk. Throw it in your fast DVD ROM and play it with your player software. Fast forward it at the highest possible rate from beginning to end. You should see continuous movement without any hiccups or hesitation. You can do the same thing in your DVD player. Fast forward to the max and watch it from beginning to end. There should be no momentary freezes.

I would say the CD Speed test would give you a very good indication whether a DVD disk would play trouble free in other standalone players. Just give it a try. If you have a disk that has problems playing on your standalone, or on friends machine, then test it and see how the transfer test chart looks. Again, you would need a fast DVD ROM, as at fast transfer rates the problem areas become more evident. You would almost never get any problems until you reach about half way in the middle of the disk. Some problems show up near the very end.

[poopyhead]

@falberni

actually,

i took the transcoded movie by dvdshrink 2.2 burned 2x on cheapo princo media with copytodvd 2.2 on a friend's laptop.....worked beautifully

could either be my dvd-rom (artec 16x), but i'm not sure if that's the case because dvd-r burned 1:1 from single-layered DVD (frida's bonus DVD) played perfectly on the dvd-rom

i'm guessing it could also be winDVD....i justed installed powerDVD XP and it's actually worse than winDVD...would completely freeze up when trying to play the DVD-R, would also freeze when trying to play the vobs files directly too.

so, i'm not really sure what's going on. my dvd-rom can play DVD-R because the 1:1 copy of frida's bonus disc worked, yet not the transcoded movie disc. however, the movie disc worked on a friend's dvd-rom perfectly, so.....................

[anosis]

WinDVD may not play your movie because you possibly made it region free or marked it for all regions. The same thing happens when you try to start the .IFO directly from the HD.

None of my region free movies play on my PC, but play perfectly on all three of my standalone players. One of them is region hacked, which allows to play any DVD no matter where from.

[kbrooks]

It seems to me that disks that can record at higher speeds are like film that is faster ie 800speed film is more sensitive to light therfore less light to make a picture, and faster shutter speed.

Would this make disks writeable at higherspeeds more suseptable to light damage or possibly even damage during reading in a player?

If so is it better anyways to use low speed disks?

[poopyhead]

hey guys...

i just figured out the problem.

copytodvd makes an iso image first before burning. however, my OS is win98SE with fat32, which can't handle files >4 gigs. hence, the iso made by copytodvd is usually truncated at 3.99 gigs, which messes everything up.

1) can't play on PC DVD-ROM
2) parts of the DVD gets cut off

so, i'm using the latest version of nero express to burn the files directly, w/o making an iso first. everything is perfect now. at first, i assume it was dvdshrink messing some of the dvd up when transcoding, but i was very wrong. i also thought it was the cheapo princo media, but i was wrong too. works great, just need to take care of them like the cheapo unbranded cd-r media

so, if any of you guys using win98SE, then don't bother making an iso first cuz you won't be able to go above 4 gigs, and most iso's are ~4.5 gigs to fill up entire DVD-R

[Bob W]

Most of my DVD burns are at 4x and they all play fine in the three DVD players I have at home.