Any advice on making an "anamorphic" DVD from 4:3

[curtw]

I've got the Devideon software, which will let me create a 16:9 anamorphic DVD from a DV (iMovie) output file. This would be seamless for stuff that I videotape "through the lens" in 16:9 mode on my camcorder, but I want to try something a little more ambitious. I've got a pile of letterboxed Laserdiscs sitting around, and I'd like to convert them to DVD in as high fidelity and future-proof a method as possible.

Unfortunately, there's no way to tell my camcorder to use 16:9 mode from the S-video input, to I'm stuck with capturing at 4:3. Here's what I've done, and please let me know if there's a better method out there (something that will reduce artifacts).

1. Capture at 4:3 via S-Video to DV camcorder.
2. Input to Mac as iMovie.
3. Open each DV clip individually in QuickTime Pro, open its properties, and save as a "Full Resolution" Quicktime movie (I've been told that this de-interlaces the video).
4. Open the Quicktime from the previous step, open its properties, and mask off the top and bottom 60 pixels worth of the letterbox (leaving a height of 360), and save as another file.
5. Open the Quicktime from the previous step, and export to DV format (which "stretches" it back to a height of 480) using the DVCPRO quality setting. Repeat steps 3-5 for all clips.
6. Compile all of the DV clips into a new iMovie project, and export "for iDVD."
7. Convert to MPEG, author and burn in Devideon using the 16:9 setting.

So far, this has worked, but is there a shortcut out there? If there was something that could vertically stretch the Laserdisc output BEFORE it ever got to my camcorder, that would probably be the simplest method. Ever heard of anything like this?

As an aside, the Devideon also has a setting for source files having a 2.21:1 aspect ratio. I've tried to do some research on the web about this, but it doesn't appear to be in the DVD spec. How many set-top boxes will actually "play" something formatted this way (most of the LD's are 2.35:1, so I'm not in danger of cutting out any of the signal).

[Gazorgan]

You can't actually do it. I mean you can make it look that way, but you can't make a 4:3 DVD into a 16:9.

[curtw]

...you can't make a 4:3 DVD into a 16:9.

And I repeat: I'm not converting a DVD. It's a 4:3 image with intrinsic letterboxing from which I want to excise some of the letterbox, and save some of my MPEG encoding horsepower when I *do* make it into a DVD (and also, make it display properly on a future 16:9 TV). does that make sense?

[Gazorgan]

My apologies. Do you have any other capture options besides the DV CAM? What resolution is it actually capturing in?

[curtw]

What resolution is it actually capturing in?

It's 720x480. So, I realize that when I cut off the top and bottom, and then re-stretch it from 360 back to a height of 480, it's "interpolating" pixel values. That's where I'm afraid that I'm introducing new artifacts. I've noticed that when I play this back on my 4:3 TV, and it "squishes" the picture vertically again, things look OK. But I'm afraid that I'm doing more harm than good if it'll end up looking awful on a 16:9 TV. Maybe I should just make up a DVD-RW full of different samples, and haul it over to Tweeter to see how it looks on their wide HDTV's.

[Jeffersonian]

Since you're using iMovie, could you just use the 16x9 effect in there?

[GreyDeath]

I've tried this before on PC using TMPGEnc, but the result is pretty much the same if you do a LD LTX movie 4:3 or stretch it for 16:9. I think you're pretty much just saving your widescreen tv from zooming in for Cinema mode. As far as I know LD's aren't progressive, and even de-interlacing will still leave some residual jaggies.

Stretching the vertical resolution to make a 16:9 DVD won't add any extra detail. As they say, garbage in, garbage out, and I've found that LD's aren't as great of a source as I once thought. But it's sure better than video tape.

[curtw]

Since you're using iMovie, could you just use the 16x9 effect in there?

If you're talking about the one from stupendous software, I think that's a "fake." i.e., it'll mask the top and bottom, but it's still inherently a 4:3 display like the Laserdisc output is. Unless there's another effect that I haven't seen?

[SaSi]

Curtw,

I'm not using a Mac, so can't offer any specific advise on s/w to use. However, the general principle you mention is correct. Finding a shortcut means finding a program that can do two or more steps at the same time.

In the PC world, the best program would be Tmpgenc. It can take a source video, crop the top and bottom borders, resize it, de-interlace it if you need to (but will only make things worse) and encode it in a full frame 16:9 DAR MPEG-2 file.

The problem, anyway you do it, is what has already stated, garbage in-garbage out. Well, it's not actually garbage in, however stretching 360 lines into 480 (or in the PAL world the same 360 lines into 576 for a 2.35:1 movie I've done, means that lines are almost doubled. The problem is that they are not *exactly* doubled, so that creates jagged lines and strange moire like effects. The only good thing about this exercice is that if you have a wide TV, the movie fills the whole (or most of) the screen. I've tried that a couple of times and the resulting quality simply doesn't warrant the effort. Perhaps if a better resize filter can be employed, the resized frame would look better, but haven't been able to find any.

[Jeffersonian]

iMovie has it's own built-in one (version 3), and i believe it does just mask the top and bottom, but you could do that then go into final cut or something and crop it. it seems much simpler than all the steps involved now.

[curtw]

I've tried this before on PC using TMPGEnc, but the result is pretty much the same if you do a LD LTX movie 4:3 or stretch it for 16:9...

That's what I was afraid of. Oh well, it was worth a shot.

I've found that LD's aren't as great of a source as I once thought.

Well, when a certain Mr. Lucas won't sell me what I want to buy (http://www.originaltrilogy.com), they're the best game in town. 8)

[GreyDeath]

Hee,

What do you think I'm trying to do right now...

[curtw]

... I've tried that a couple of times and the resulting quality simply doesn't warrant the effort. Perhaps if a better resize filter can be employed, the resized frame would look better, but haven't been able to find any.

Again, thanks to all. I think you've talked me out of it, and saved me many days of work (well, maybe I'll try it on a 10-minute segment, just to be sure).

[geek rock]

i've actually been doing something very similar to this myself, but i'm using the quicktime mpeg-2 encoder.. here's what i've been doing. (this will only work in imovie 3..)

1. capture your video, make any edits you need to (fade ins, etc etc.)

2. select any random frame from the video, and go to file > save frame as >. make sure you select the "pict" format for this. this will be the basis for your mask.

3. open up photoshop or whatever image editor you use, and the pict file you've just created. now, select the areas of the picture at the top and bottom, and fill them totally white, and the picture area, and fill this totally black. save the file - make sure it's still saved as a PICT - and exit.

4. in imovie, save the project - don't export anything yet - then close imovie.

5. in your finder, find the project you've just created. inside the project folder there will be a quicktime file called <project name>.mov, which will be about 2 or 3k in size. open up this file, and go to movie > get movie properties > video track > mask, and add the mask you've created. your movie should now appear without any black borders.

6. go to file > save as.. > and save this movie with a different name, using "save normally (allowing dependencies)". this will create another 2 or 3k file.

7. open the file you've just created (actually it should have closed your original file and opened this new one automatically), and go to file > export > and select "movie to mpeg-2" from the list. now press the "options" button, and select your chosen video format (NTSC or PAL), and "16:9". then hit OK and it should start encoding.

i'd imagine you can take your file from step 6 and use your normal encoder, in the usual way, and it should work.

as for 2.21:1 ratio - no, it can't be done. the only two ratios that DVD is capable of are 4:3 and 16:9. if you have movies in a larger ratio, you'll need to actually hard-encode some black borders into your footage, even if you're encoding in widescreen. this is how the wider-ratio movies (e.g. star wars, donnie darko, lord of the rings, etc) are encoded by DVD authors.

hope that makes sense - any questions feel free to PM or email me.

-Mark

[curtw]

Geek Rock,

That's pretty much what I'm doing, except that I don't have a Quicktime-based MPEG encoder (that's in FCP, right?), so I'm effectively splitting the last tasks, using Quicktime to make it anamorphic, and using Formac's encoder for the MPEG. thanks!!!