Best DVD writer for making professional wedding DVD's?

[thete]

Hi

My friend does wedding videos, and has deicded he wants to start putting them onto DVD too, due to popular demand! The DVD's produced ned to eb able to be played on virtually all (or as many as possible) standalone DVD players without havign to use any hacks to get them to work! The DVD's also need to last for years. I have looked through the list, and it;s all very confusing due to the two main formats (-R and +R). I like the sound of the Pioneer A05, although I feel I shoudl get a recorder which supports both formats, just in case! The new Sony 500AX does this, but seems to have so many problems, it;s unbelievable! I can spend up to £500 on the drive, but ewould rather go for the ones which are around the £300 pound mark! Also th drive needs to be available in the UK too! The videos will last about 2 hrs, so each disk will be virtually full as well!

I would really appreicate some help in thsi matter!

[MOVIEGEEK]

Look into the Sony 500 series DVD writers as they will burn to -R/+R,they cost $340USD(not sure on conversion price)

[Karate Media]

HA! I just commented on this in your other thread!

I have been using a Sony 500 UL (firmware 1.0f) with success (so far). I would really recommend a multi-format burner (Sony is not the only dual +/- R burner out there) just so all your bases will be covered. IF someone can't play a -R disc on their standalone, they're not really going to care about the technological mumbo-jumbo behind it. They just want a working disc. Check out your other thread for my longer-winded opinion on the matter!

[thete]

Thank you for your reply, this sony is now startimng to sound better, and you have justr answered one of my qesutionms in the other tread, abotu if you have personal expeirnce of the SOny itsle,f so thank you very much! I look forward to more help in this matter (bas and good points abotu them would be wonderful)!

[freebee22]

just my .02 cents on this matter....my understanding is for the best compatibility with standalone player ....you mught want to check out the dvd-r writer that writes on dvd for authoring not for general...

hope that helps

[Karate Media]

I don't have a list in front of me (and I'm sharing a 56K line with like 5 other computers at work, so i don't feel like googling) but look into the other manufacturers of dual-format +/-R DVD burners, as well as Sony, and see what people say. I like my Sony, and it's been good so far (knock on wood), but I've read those same reviews, and they make me cringe everytime I fire up the 500UL.

First of all, let me say with full conviction that Sony Customer Support is the ******* Antichrist. I had some problems with the 500UL when I first bought it (before I upgraded to 1.0f firmware) and those brain-dead seat warmers amazed me w/ their ineptitude and outright rudeness. They are confrontational, argumentative and even openly hostile at times.

Right after I bought my 500UL, Sony placed a .pdf of the specs for the 500ULX on their website. While talking to customer support about the problems I was having, I asked about the new ULX that was on the website and if this addressed any of my problems (burning issues that were fixed by 1.0f). The operator became incredibly defensive and refused to answer any more of my questions. She acted as though I had hacked the site and stolen secret information!

Anyway, enough of my rant. The point is, Sony Customer Service is one of the greatest evils ever conceived.

I have used Verbatim + and - R, Fuji + and - R, Ritek -R (from rima), and TDK -R all with success in my home player (Toshiba 5-disc carousel) as well as a friend's Sony, and have passed on + and - R DVD-videos to friends with standalones of unknown origin and all have been happy. Most of the coasters I have made were either b/c of

1) Earlier firmware
2) Problems with cheap media I tried once
3) Strange problem with Dazzle DVD Complete (freezes my standalone)
4) My own vastly underrated incompetence.

But really, look at dual-format burners for professional work -- if not the Sony, then another brand. Like I said, chances are you will run into a compatibilty problem at least once and it will be worth the extra dough for a dual-format burner if that customer can walk away from the transaction saying, "That nice fellow was able to fix the problem immediately!"

People don't expect perfection -- they expect you to know what to do when problems do crop up. And they WILL tell their friends.

[gcutler]

just my .02 cents on this matter....my understanding is for the best compatibility with standalone player ....you mught want to check out the dvd-r writer that writes on dvd for authoring not for general...

hope that helps

This sounds like the best option, obviously more expensive, but what happens when the working DVD+-R hits the 6th person in line to watch it and it won't play on their old DVD player. If the DVD burner for authoring brings you from 70% compatibility to 99% compatibility, that might be the wisest move if serious (is this your fulltime job, or a weekend job)

[Karate Media]

Gcutler---
"What happens when the working DVD+-R hits the 6th person in line to watch it and it won't play on their old DVD player?"-quote

That is why my contracts say:

"Customer has seven (7) days to report any problems due to disc error. Original disc must be presented and will be exchanged for replacement disc." (Actually from my short-run audio CD contracts, but will transfer language over to new ones)

Cynical? Perhaps, but you can't make everyone happy. Burning DVDs (or CDs) simply will not give you 100% reliability, regardless of how much money you spend. I think starting out with a dual-format drive will please most everyone he deals with (EDIT: and stay within the budget he has stated).

[gcutler]

Don't have the link, but I saw these statistics for compatability including old DVD Players...

1. DVD-R for authoring 3.95gb: 96%

2. DVD-R for authoring 4.7gb: 67%

3. DVD-R for general 4.7gb: 66%

4. DVD-RW 4.7gb: 58%

5. DVD+RW 4.7gb: 56%

That -R 3.95gb for Authoring 96% compatability rate is mighty nice, and that might reduce your dissatisfaction rate 30% as well.

[lukesjr]

i actually just started doing wedding videos this year.
go with the sony. although you will probably only use -r,
its nice to have incase some relative's dvd player will only
play +rw.
and despite what you may have read, labeling them is fine...

[gcutler]

="Karate Media"]Cynical? Perhaps, but you can't make everyone happy. Burning DVDs (or CDs) simply will not give you 100% reliability, regardless of how much money you spend. I think starting out with a dual-format drive will please most everyone he deals with (EDIT: and stay within the budget he has stated).

The only way having a dual media drive will help the original poster is they burn both a DVD-R and a DVD+R to cover both bases, burning ONLY a + or - will give you the same as a regular + or - Drive. The original poster may want to ask in an order form if they want + or - (but I bet 99% won't know what that means)

[Karate Media]

gcutler

Not really... you don't have to hand them one of each -- it's about having a safety net if needed. Like I said, it's worth the few extra $$ (while staying within his budget) to have the *option* for when someone has a problem.

Sure, go ahead and burn -R 99% of the time, but the 1% of the time when someone calls you up the next day and says, "That DVD don't work in my player," you can give them a +R and fix the problem (if that's the cause), and you'll be happy you spent the extra money today because that's one less angry customer to deal with in the future and one more happy customer who will tell their friends that you're on the ball and can deal with any problems that crop up.

I mean, these people just went through a wedding...you want a reality check about what happens to the best laid plans? Get married. By the end of the experience, these people know that shit happens, and they end up truly appreciating the people who will have a solution when a problem crops up.

I agree that in a perfect world with all the time and all the money you need, it'd be best to buy the best - eg, an authoring burner, or whatever fits the bill. But (and this is an opinion not shared by some of pros on this board) I believe that there is no shame in going econo if need be when you are starting a business, and if you have budget constraints, then you must work within them. I do much of my work econo b/c I do it freelance, and while my client base is small, most everyone has been happy, some ecstatic, and I'm comfortable w/ the work I do. I don't think that going econo reflects poorly on others working in the field, or that it belittles the integrity of the field as some do -- I've seen crap work by people with years of training and thousands upon thousands of $$ of equipment.

Now, I AM throwing in some assumptions here, mostly based around what I do: such as that our OP is going to work with local couples who will be able to contact him easily if necessary, that his clients aren't expecting a Hollywood blockbuster - just their wedding video on DVD (and even possibly on video as well), and so on. I'm assuming that he's not offering the stars and moon, just a basic service. Any or all of these assumptions could be wrong. But I do know that the assumption that he should not consider working within a constrained budget is wrong, too.

[thxkid]

well I have a HP +R write and its played on any dvd player I have tried once I used the free bitsetter to have all my +R's and +RW's burned as DVD+Rom's, that includes

Daewoo 5700, 5800, 5900
APEX 1000, 500w, 600a, 660, 1500
Panasonic DMR-E10, E20, E30 HR2
Sampo 631CF
All Philips,JVC, Toshiba, Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer that Frys electronics, sams club, best but and circuit city carry I know I have taken 4-5 DVD+R's down and tried them personally cause none of the dumb salee person know what coould play DVD-R, DVD+R or what.
Media does make a difference, I stick with verbatuims now instead of the ritek's.
Plus my HP has work with
DVD2ONE
DVDxCOPY
DVDshrink
Nero
recordnow max
recordnow DX
Roxio 5.0

But for any beginner getting into this fresh I do recomend the Sony 500ax, its just an easy curve to learn on, my 1st 2 weeks with the HP was a bitch until I got it worked out, now its simple.

[gcutler]

gcutler

Not really... you don't have to hand them one of each -- it's about having a safety net if needed. Like I said, it's worth the few extra $$ (while staying within his budget) to have the *option* for when someone has a problem.

We are all making assumptions, as the original poster didn't give us budget limitations, and other expectations (what percentage of incompatability is acceptable to them). But there are tooo many people who think a +- burner will burn one DVD that is compatible and they are not aware that they would need to burn a seperate + or - to actually have both sides covered. And if he/she can avoid adding to the stress level of the couple getting married then if might mean more recommendations and the extra expense may be worth it (again assumption).

I've done some side business converting home movies to DVD, and ran into the situation where people had very old DVD players that would not play + or - DVDs, and they didn't care who's fault it was (I had warned them about all the issues), they wanted a working copy and what could have led to more business did not because of the failure percentage (nothing I could do about it) I wasn't going to get the Authoring hardware for this amount of side business, but it is a valid issue to discuss. The people who had the old player eventually were happy when they bought a new $75 DVD Player and the DVDs played great (but they still were angry about the experience).

[Karate Media]

We are all making assumptions, as the original poster didn't give us budget limitations,

Actually, he did:

"I can spend up to £500 on the drive, but ewould rather go for the ones which are around the £300 pound mark!" (quote from OP)

But there are tooo many people who think a +- burner will burn one DVD that is compatible and they are not aware that they would need to burn a seperate + or - to actually have both sides covered.

I don't follow: Are you saying that people think the discs coming out of a Sony 500 A/UL are both + and - (that they have some sort of dual-format innately burned into them)? I have yet to hear of anyone making such a bizarre assumption. I explicitly stated that the point of having a dual-format burner was to have the option of burning the other format if needed.

I respect your experience, and I agree it's an issue worth discussing, but our OP has stated that s/he has budget issues, so this may or may not be the thread to discuss it (expensive authoring burners) in.

In the OP's other thread about DVDR discs, one poster said thay they have dual +/- R demo discs for people to try on their systems to check compatibilty; I like that idea a lot.

You can't please everybody -- and if you are constrained to work econo, then you have to expect a certain % will walk away unhappy (no matter what you do), but you can hedge yr bets so that you can work econo and reduce the # of unhappy customers.

[nufan292]

Another option would be to just get two drives, one + and one -. I can find - drives on sale sometimes for around $150-170 (but with mail-in rebate) and I think I've seen + drives for around $200, even lower sometimes too. So both of them together would cost somwhere around $300-370, and that's about the cost of a Sony. And if the drive is expecting heavy usage, this way if one breaks you aren't completely SOL.

[gcutler]

Actually, he did:

"I can spend up to £500 on the drive, but ewould rather go for the ones which are around the £300 pound mark!" (quote from OP)

I'm a Silly American at large, the Pound symbol just dosen't get thru the filters. And of course the exchange rate throws a kink into understanding the real budget (Euros I can have a better idea on but only because the math is easier)

[gcutler]

I don't follow: Are you saying that people think the discs coming out of a Sony 500 A/UL are both + and - (that they have some sort of dual-format innately burned into them)? I have yet to hear of anyone making such a bizarre assumption. I explicitly stated that the point of having a dual-format burner was to have the option of burning the other format if needed.

As more and more Non-Techies are getting into the medium, you're gonna hear more like that. I've run into people who misunderstand the +- drives like I described (and add misinformed sales people at the local OfficeMax to the source of the misinformation). They think of +- as Both, instead of either.

[jowel13]

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[Karate Media]

gcutler

That's sad, but I guess I believe it...I did a short stint once at an "Electronics" Shack ("you've got questions, we just want your name and address") while in between jobs and I was amazed by some of the customers -- some of whom took the company's slogan to heart and would call with questions about computers and products that they didn't even buy from the store (nor that the company even sold!)

Anyay...that's why there's dvdrhelp...everybody has something to learn at least once a day...

[txpharoah]

Seems to still be confusion here.

1. A + drive makes + discs.
2. A - drives makes - discs.
3. A +/- drives will make a - disc OR a + disc.
4. There is no such thing as a -/+ disc. One or the other.

In all cases, the player needs to be able to play either a - or a + disc. If neither works, it the fault of the consumer for having crappy older equipment, but it should be explained to them in advance that newer discs may not work on older equipment.

At my freelance business I only guarantee a good product. The bad hardware is the consumer's problem, not mine. I did my part. And FYI: that's only less than 1% of the time if you make the discs right. Incompatibility is just a much the fault of bad layout and data, moreso usually than bad media or a bad player.

I'd say get a good drive. The Pioneer DVD-R 105 4x (and Cendyne clone) are great drives. The new DVD+R 4x drive (TDK?) is good too. I'd stick to one of these top drives. However, please know that the -R are more compatible for video as they were invented for video (as opposed to the +R drives being made more for data).

And then don't be tempted to "hack" it or upgrade firmware. They work fine right out of the box if you use good media (meaning don't be too cheap on buying a good DVD).

[Karate Media]

Seems to still be confusion here.

1. A + drive makes + discs.
2. A - drives makes - discs.
3. A +/- drives will make a - disc OR a + disc.
4. There is no such thing as a -/+ disc. One or the other.

I'm not sure I see any confusion on this point, except where gcutler explained that some people (not associated with this thread) out in the real, "non-techie" world MAY think this. I don't see anyone in this thread who would disagree with your 4 points.

So far -- knock on wood and all that -- I think the Sony 500UL drive is a good, reliable drive that has made +R and -R discs that have played not only in my own DVD player, but in a number of others as well. And even if it only happens once in my life, I will be very happy if the day comes where the -R disc I used didn't work in someone's player and I have to replace it with a +R disc.

Yes, bad hardware isn't your fault, but placating your client (to a certain degree) is your responsibility. I've seen this with my own freelance work, as well as in other jobs in my life (try working in an auto repair shop for a little while -- you'll learn very quickly about placating difficult customers who know little about the subject at hand!).

As always, though, I respect the opinions of professionals with real-world, empirical results. If you've seen a very low rate of return on -R discs, then I can't argue with that. But I still don't see anyone in this thread who is confused about +R vs. -R...

[gcutler]

Seems to still be confusion here.

1. A + drive makes + discs.
2. A - drives makes - discs.
3. A +/- drives will make a - disc OR a + disc.
4. There is no such thing as a -/+ disc. One or the other.

I'm not sure I see any confusion on this point, except where gcutler explained that some people (not associated with this thread) out in the real, "non-techie" world MAY think this. I don't see anyone in this thread who would disagree with your 4 points...

Correct, I've not seen anyone here make that mistake, just non-techies starting to get into things (with the drives obtainable for US$150).

But I have been directing many-many people to this web site, the quality of the posting my drop

[gcutler]

In all cases, the player needs to be able to play either a - or a + disc. If neither works, it the fault of the consumer for having crappy older equipment, but it should be explained to them in advance that newer discs may not work on older equipment.

At my freelance business I only guarantee a good product. The bad hardware is the consumer's problem, not mine. I did my part. And FYI: that's only less than 1% of the time if you make the discs right. Incompatibility is just a much the fault of bad layout and data, moreso usually than bad media or a bad player.

But there may be a time where your sticking to your agreements "letter of the law" may cost you a customer and could lead to more lost business. Where if you know about one or two DVD players you know will work, keeping a few Electronics store coupons/flyers on hand and showing the customer how to get a better inexpensive DVD player may keep you the business instead of only saying the truth which is "It Isn't Your Fault"

[spiderman2k1]

I would say get Pioneer. Sony DRU500AX i had two of them nothing but problem's. Blue laser will not work with DVD+R. If you want a dual burn wait other companies are come out with there own model's read the post on the board alot of people have problem's with the DRU500AX

[EK03]

best buy, the TDK indiDVD 4x, burns +R/-R any everything else runs like a charm. I spent $250 about 3 weeks back

[nufan292]

I'm pretty sure the TDK drive only burns +r/rw

[AarontheRipper]

Regardless of what format you decide to go with, don't go cheap on the media. I use cheap Ritek's for myself, but if for some reason something goes wrong, I have no one to blame but myself. However, that will not be the case with your customers. Definately go with some higher end media. That may take care of some of your potential compatability issues.

[q1aqza]

My two pence worth. I would provide the customers with a test disk that they can pass around the family / friends. Make it something non-copyrighted (obviously) and if anyone who is planning to buy a copy of the wedding DVD has problems you could either send them another test disk to try based on a different brand or a +R if you opt for a dual format burner. Except for the bride & groom (assuming they are the paying customers) you could charge a small deposit to cover the cost of the test disk which is refunded upon receipt of order and the return of the test disk.

Stating the obvious, I would make sure the test disk was made with the same editing / authoring / burning program that you would use for the main wedding video.

[EK03]

the 4x TDK burns -R also