VBR XVCDs - strange file size?

[ptcg]

This is weird.. Using TMPGEnc, I've made over a dozen VBR XVCDs over the past few weeks. All had the same setup.. 2-pass VBR encoding, 0 minimum bitrate, 3000 max, and the average was adjusted to get the video onto one CD. All other settings (GOP, etc..) were left at default.

EVERY file came out almost exactly 800MB when finished.. I just remade one 3 times thinking I had done something wrong.. Following the same procedure as usual, the file came out only 680MB.. Does this make any sense to anyone? The video is about 105 min. long.. I had the average bitrate set to 813kbps (should have filled the whole CD, no?)

The only thing I can find that would kind of explain it was in this post...

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=148295

Is it possible that too low of a minimum bitrate would cause this? Or maybe the highest quality was obtained at a lower bitrate & TMPGEnc saw no reason to use the extra? The movie looks perfect, so it's not like there was a big loss in quality, but I just don't understand this.

The video in question is a very slow-moving, and very dark movie with more or less no action.. Using Bitrate Viewer, The MPG I made had an average bitrate of 613kbps, the ave. Q-Level is 1.00, the peak bitrate is 2044kbps, and the peak Q-Level is 1.38

Anyone have any ideas??

[Sefy]

I Recall there was some sort of a bug with TMPGEnc, which Template are you
using ? and did you set it to Non-Standard VideoCD ?

[ptcg]

I'm using the standard NTSCFilm template, but I changed it to non-standard VCD, and changed it from CBR to 2-pass VBR.

Everything else was left at default settings.

I had another video do the same thing now.. Basically the same setup.. Movie is about 1 1/2 hrs, I set the VBR max to 3000, min to 0 and ave to 843kbps.. After encoding, it was only 630MB.. Should have been 800MB.

Seems it does this with very slow moving/dark video.. I just made one last nite that had a lot of action and it came out fine.. almost 800MB exactly.

I might try using CQ instead of VBR.. I just don't really want to. It doesn't seem to look as nice as 2-pass VBR and estimating the file size is kind of a pain.

[ptcg]

Well, it would seem that these two movies I'm having trouble with just aren't requiring a high bitrate as VCDs (352x240).. I tried one with CQ and a setting of 100 quality & it STILL came out smaller than 800MB! I'm going for an SVCD (352x480) instead.. that had better fill a CD! I'll get a little better quality movie as a bonus.

[Sefy]

That's not SVCD, that sounds more like CVD or an XVCD

[ptcg]

I keep doing that.. Sorry..

I've been making XVCDs (352x240 VBR) [MPEG-1]
The one I'm trying now would be XSVCD I guess (352x480 VBR) [MPEG-2]

[zedolfblack]

I Recall there was some sort of a bug with TMPGEnc, which Template are you
using ? and did you set it to Non-Standard VideoCD ?

This TMPGEnc bug is fixed from version 2.510.

Version : 2.510. 2003/1/17

Fixed: In the MPEG setting dialog window, System tab, chosing MPEG-1 Video-CD (non-standard) would in fact select the MPEG-1 Video-CD setting.

Quoted from http://www.tmpgenc.net/e_main.html

The bug would cause TMPGEnc to pad audio to VCD standard bitrate even if Video-CD(non-standard) was selected.



Martin.

[ZippyP.]

The one I'm trying now would be XSVCD I guess (352x480 VBR) [MPEG-2]

That resolution is 1/2 DVD, and it's commonly called CVD, like Sefy suggested.

[EddyH]

if your AVERAGE Q-level is 1.00 then I must offer my congratulations - you've done something very special and managed a "perfect" compression of the film, similar to using CQ100 with unlimited max rate. Your source must be something special to be able to do that at VCD rez or more, AND be less than 700mb with a length over 100minutes (i'd be happy to get a Q of about 3.0 average for that). Would you mind revealing what it is so we can all go and play to see if we can recreate the results?

(Q 1.00 is the lowest possible distortion due to compression, not 0.00 for some reason)

You're not going to get that puppy any larger without simply wasting bits - your guess at TMPGEnc getting the best possible and not going any higher is right. Perhaps you could lower the max video rate slightly and use the extra on high quality sound?

It might just come down to it's being a washed out 15fps divx of a badly focussed cam rip or something like that, but well done all the same...

[Cecilio]

I keep doing that.. Sorry..

I've been making XVCDs (352x240 VBR) [MPEG-1]
The one I'm trying now would be XSVCD I guess (352x480 VBR) [MPEG-2]

Look let me give you a some very good advice if your making a movie thats 105 min do not use vcd or xvcd nor SVCD i would use CVD. 352*480 look if your using tmpeg heres a sample


ok and for audio use 48000 at a bitrate of 128 ok and now on the system tab put SVCD VBR ok now that should work good. ok now when your gonna burn it use nero burning rom and burn it as a svcd and put non standard SVCD.

[Cecilio]

First of all what is your source is it DIVX, XVID, DIV3, DVD, MPEG, DV or what. ok i used an xvid source for the movie Reign Of Fire the movie lasted 96 minutes and then i put a music video big tymers get your roll on which was 5 minutes now thats about 101 minutes and there was no blockiness, and it looked clear and colorful. plus when you zoom in on your dvd player at 4X you still see no squares so thats cool. but you have to have to use highest quality very slow and youll get a perfect copy, plus i suggest if you are making a video longer than 100 minutes i suggest you do the movie in widescreen as which the video will be covering 50% of your screen or 75%, its your choice. but lets say its like 65% of the screen thats covered with video thats good cause its not too small or too big, now i would prefer widescreen cause that causes more bitrate for the picture and well you could say i like widescreen better or something. if you dont know how to make the movie widescreen just ask me and ill tell you.

[ptcg]

Sefy/ZippyP.. You're right.. Sorry Sefy! There are so many different settings/formats, I never know which is which!


EddyH.. The two movies I'm messing with are 'The Others' (DVD Original), and 'Queen of the Damned' (DIVX AVI).. Both are 16:9, very dark, with not much action, so the don't require much bitrate.

Both are approx 100min (give or take). As I said, I encoded them both the same way.. Used NTSCFilm VCD template, but changed from CBR to 2-pass VBR, with min of 0, max of 3000, and ave. as suggested by the Wizard, to fill an 80Min CD.

I put it on highest quality motion search precision, and under Quantize Matrix, checked floating point DCT, and unchecked no motion search.

Audio was 44100, 224kbps, and system was Video-CD (non-standard)

MPGs came out approx 680MB, but looked great.

This is the setup I always use, and have always had fantastic results.

I tried the CVD (352x480) but wasn't happy with the results at all.. File size was 800MB, but Q-Level shot up over 8+ in spots.. Looked like hell.


Cecilio.. Thanks for the suggestion.. I never even thought to use the 16:9 for some reason..

I'm remaking these (again.. ) this time, 352x240, 16:9. I'll check back tomorrow & let you know what happened.

[ptcg]

Well, should've done some research first.. just wasted a day & a CD.. Found this in another forum post...

there is a common misconception that VCDs and SVCDs, because they are playable on a DVD player, can be anamorphic. (ie, black borders can be added "on the fly" by the DVD player for 4:3 TVs).

THIS IS A FEATURE EXCLUSIVE TO DVDS!

I made a movie in 16:9, played fine with PowerDVD (quality was great!), but DVD player played it fullscreen & distorted.. Oh well..

Screw it.. I'm going back to the way I originally was making them.. These couple of MPGs will just be a little smaller than 800MB.. No biggy.