What is the bloody point???

[afterburn]

It has just dawned on me:

1. £200 for a decent DVD-r/rw/ram

2. £4 to £5 for a decent DVD-r

3. £20 odd for a decent DVD-ram

expensive in itself, but ...

A. Need a DVD to rip? - £3.50 to hire a new title

B. Cost of wear and tear on drive + electricity cost of puter being on for hours

C. General time this whole shenanigans takes ... (ear-ache of the missus etc.)

WHAT THE BLOODY HELL IS THE POINT???????

EG - I could either spend about £8.50 + hidden costs, say £1.50, = £10 + a couple of hours ripping American History X ...

... I saw American History X DVD in my local HMV today - cost ... £4.50!

Someone restore my faith here ... am I missing something (other than ability to "own" a DVD before it is available to buy? (Wow!)

[defense]

Someone restore my faith here ... am I missing something (other than ability to "own" a DVD before it is available to buy? (Wow!)

Yea, your right, it's a waste of time..just go out and buy the BLOOOTTYY DVD's dammmnnitt!

[afterburn]

er - not quite as constructive a reply as i'd hoped for

anyone else?

[solarfox]

Well, here in the U.S., the dynamic is a bit different, with US$229 for a drive (cheapest model in last week's Fry's flyer), and US$3 - $4 for a good-quality blank. (I'm not including DVD-RAM in the calculus since, frankly, it's not widely-used over here that I know of.) Renting a DVD ranges from about US$2 - $4.

So you're looking at about US$5 - $8 in hard costs per movie, and I'd say your guesstimate of 1.50 for "incidental costs" (electricity, amortized value of the drive, etc.) is pretty close whether it's in dollars or pounds.

However -- new DVD releases in the U.S. rarely cost a mere US$4.50, at any store! Not unless it's either (a) some obscure bit of cinematic crud no one's ever heard of (even then, below $8 is rare), or (b) a "loss leader" promotion on only one or two titles. Typical prices in the U.S. are $15 for "sell-through" items with little or no special features, up to $22 for special-edition packages like Spiderman, while Anime DVD's are almost always $29 or more unless the disc is less than 30 minutes long (and sometimes not even then.)

(Incidentally, here in the States there's no issue with being able to ""own" a DVD before it is available to buy", since the rental stores get the discs the same time they become available in the retail shops.)

Still, the dynamic might seem to point slightly in favor of buying the discs instead, at least on less-expensive titles -- and I generally do. However, as a person who has far more store-bought DVD's than ripped copies, I still find reasons to rip, usually for reasons other than the simple economics of bought vs. copied:

(1) Disney DVD's (and many other kidvid discs) are notorious for front-loading the "must play" section of the disc with five minutes or more of advertisements aimed at selling their latest crap direct-to-video sequel-bastardization of their well-loved classics. Why? Because they know full well that kids tend to want to watch a movie over, and over, and over, and over... and they'll be saturation-bombed with these ads every time they do, so the next time they go shopping with Mom or Dad and see that brightly-colored box on the shelf, they'll loudly demand it. Frankly, this pisses me off, and a lot of my friends with young children hate it as well. Ripping a copy of the disc for the kid to watch, with the ads dumped in the bit-bucket, can help save a parent's sanity.

(1a) There's also the side issue of kids not always understanding why you have to be careful handling the discs; a couple of ripped copies for the kid to watch is a good way to protect the original until they're older. (This is particularly important for Disney releases, since Disney has a policy of making titles available "for a limited time only" and then withdrawing them from the market, especially when it comes to their theatrical classics.)

(2) Some Anime houses seem to think it's cute to issue multiple-disc sets with a single half-hour episode of a multi-part OVA (Original Video Animation -- what we'd call "direct to video") on each disc. This, frankly, annoys me to no end, since now I have to get up and change discs every half hour for no good reason. (I didn't mind it with CAV-formatted laserdiscs, since the reason was the improved picture and the rock-solid still-frames, but with these DVD sets it's just a shameless way to gyp you out of $60 for a four-disc boxed set that really has about $20 worth of material in it.) Ripping these allows me to collect the whole show on one disc -- and stick them they way they tried to stick me in the process.

(3) Circumventing PAL/NTSC and region-coding issues. This is more of a motive over on your side of the pond, I'm sure, but even here in the States some of us are known to crave foreign releases that turn out to be in a format we can't play easily. (I understand that multistandard TV's and DVD players are more common over there... they're virtually unknown here, at least in the consumer market. You pretty much have to know what you're looking for, go to a specialty shop to get it, and pay five times as much for it.)

(4) Because we can. Americans, by and large, tend to resent being told what we can and can't do with our own property, and are always looking for our little ways to strike back when we can.

[Bob W]

I do it because it's fun plus in the process I have a backup of the DVD. Most blank media for me is under a dollar and electricity is cheap. If you're just looking to copy 10 DVD's then of course it's not woth it however if you plan on doing hundreds then perhaps it makes sense.

[jarvis1781]

@ afterburn

looks like you joined rather recently....

why do you ask such a question and have the audacity to expect a "constructive" reply???

you knew you would get flamed for this discussion because after all this is a DVD forum....

lame thread if you ask me........

[Psycho_Dad_Rules]

Hi all,

Just got two things...

1st, i can rent a DVD for 1,20 euros here in holland (Price of the not so new movies). A recordable is 1 euro. Except for the time and putter wear and tear, it's just 2,20 for a movie.
When movie finally are for sale here in holland, the cost about 20-40 euros !!!

2nd, I use my burner for backing up my originals, burning large amounts of data or creating home movies on dvd. Since i can't rent or buy my own home movies or data, a dvd burner was the only way to go.

Greetz,

pSyChO dAd

[mats.hogberg]

@afterburn:
It's all about making backup copies of DVDs you own. Even so, your argument holds: Personally, I'd be able to buy 2 extra copies of "any" DVD if I had been at work for the same duration it takes to backup the DVD. But there are many other reasons for creating DVDs (storing home videos, backing up VHS...) than just to rip rentals (which is illegal, and not something discussed here, if you haven't noticed)!

/Mats

[energy80s]

I agree that it seems pointless to backup DVD movies and I don't do it very often (only movies that I don't intend buying) I mainly use discs to archive TV broadcasts and basically replace the trusty VHS machine.

[dreadogg]

burner 179.00, rent movie 1 dollar, (DO NOT DO THIS JUST POSSIBLE NET FLICKS, I ONLY BACK UP MY OWN MOVIES) electricity for my pc to be on all day 1 dollar MAX, and DVD 2x speed 1.05 hmmmmmmmm, back up from backup priceless, about 35 mins. Do the math, plus I personally find this to be a hobbie, I really like the process of recompiling a DVD movie, and playstation 2 games are just a brezze. oh sorry dvd case plus print out .50 cents. Sense of accomplishment priceless.

[doom969]

I use my dvd-writer to Backup DVD I own, cause I dont want my kids to break them, and thats worth it beleive me


_________d0oM969

[Doggiedaddy]

Why does man go to the moon, why does he climb Mt. Everest or venture to the deepest regions of the abyss and the hundreds of other examples I will not bore anyone with? All seemingly ridicules to attempt, with actually no measurable rewards, monetary or to better the existence of mankind. Never the less man will always do what they say can not be done.

Well maybe a little over kill on the examples?
Just my to cents

PS: A lot of folks are into personal DV editing rather than the DVD BU as one would assume.

[Quigonsean]

I don't rip much. I got my DVD-R and all mainly to put my favorite movies that only come on vhs, on DVD. Thats fun plus I get to design the disc ie menus, spec features, etc... all custom to me, by me, and for me to my likeing. I think its cool to spend a week with Maestro and photoshop making a Star Wars ANH disc that could could in features and professionalism compete with the studio release of TPM, or AOTC. Thats the fun in it. Besides my DVD-RAM\R drive only cost 160bucks with a full version of DVD Xcopy heck thats about what 110quid across the pond. I'm not that great on my conversions haven't been "Home" since grandma and Grandpa died. Well I guess its not "Home" in the truest of senses. I only stayed over there 3months at a time the longest and never got duel citizenship like my Father he's a limey through and through, as I say when people ask if dad is english, "Yup, he's straight off the boat" Anyhow, you can get generic disc al low as 65 cents which is what 25p there, so it aint bad inbetween generic and brand 1.2bucks what 70p or so, and name brand for about $2.50 thats what about a quid and a half, maybe. So it ain't that exspensive for a fun hobby of VHS-DVD conversion. Granted my DVD-R drive is 1x DVD-R and 2xDVD-RAM but for $169 withj a DVD-R, a DVD-RAM both Panasonic as well as DVD Xcopy full version at www.tigerdiect.com you can't beat it. Heck I use the Emtech media they sell and never had a bad one, or incompatibility and there only about a buck eafch. Granted I got my DVD-RAM/R drive for Christmas and it cost 199.99 . But I love DVD-RAM for re-writable because of its features making it more like as hard drive nonsequechle writing etc... And 1x is slow, but a fair amount of people with 4x drives end up having to burn at 1x to avoid jumps and jitters, so I take solice in that.
So I'd say bottom line is...It's just bloody fun, and not that expensive anymore and gettin bleedin' cheaper everyday!!!

Sean

[K2]

You can tell by the responses that most members have confinced themselves of the benifits.

Some posts here are right on the money. If you do a few forget it. If you do a lot or have special requirements then go for it. People here can help.


P.S.
Who ever said electricity was cheap did not live in California !

[afterburn]

thanks for all your replies - some great feedback (mostly US-based posters so i'm thinkin that, as i thought, benefits of all this are quite a bit less over here)

good luck to you all, i think i will not buy that £200 dvdrw this weekend but spend it on somthing a bit more cost effective, but maybe ... who knows 8)


@ jarvis

@ afterburn

looks like you joined rather recently....

why do you ask such a question and have the audacity to expect a "constructive" reply???

you knew you would get flamed for this discussion because after all this is a DVD forum....

lame thread if you ask me........

you, it appears, suffer from a well know internet disease called "i-have-more-posts-than-you-so-how-dare-you-post-you-thoughts-on-here-itis"

i was merely posting a topic that interested me (please tell me how many other times you have seen the same post on here)

because this is a dvd forum does that mean you can never question or reasses what you do?

is it audacious (do you know the meaning of that word? ) to expect a constructive response to a post i spent some time formulating???

[tgpo]

audacious (do you know the meaning of that word? )

Awwww. Come on now, was that really needed?

[herbapou]

My cost: (converted in US dollars, but I am Canadian)

Blank Media:
Ritek G03, 125$ for 100 = 1.25$ and they are GOOD quality media. You dont gain anything by using Verbatim, Sony, Panasonic or TDK medias over Ritek.

Labels:
Fellower photo quality DVD labels: 15$ in packs of 100: 0.15$
Ink: HP printer, 50$ color ink, 35$ black ink. Good for 200 labels, so 0.45$

Storage:
DVD wallet/binder: 7 wallets of 72 DVD`s each 70$: 0.15$

Drive:
Pioneer A05: 300$. Estimated DVD collection when done: 500 DVD`s, so 0.60$ per DVD.

Computer:
I already had 3 computers for online gaming and other used. Irrelevant.

Electricity:
Thanks to Hydro-Quebec and the lowest power cost in North America, a few cents. Lets say 0.10$ and I am beeing generous.

Original DVD cost.
Backup of my own collection. 50 DVDS at about 8$ each (bought at blockbusters, pre-rented movies). Good price, but only new movies are available and you have a few weeks window to buy them before they are sold out.
Loan DVD`s . Lots of friends loan me DVDs. Free (about 150 DVD`s)
Rented DVD. 2$ for 3 DVD`s for 3 days (old movies): 0.70$ (about 300 DVDs)
Average cost for originals: 1.25$ each

Total cost per DVD:

Media: 1.25$
Labels: 0.60$
Storage: 0.15$
Drive: 0.60$
Power: 0.15$
Original DVD`s: 1.25$

Total: 4$ per DVD
So, 50% off pre-rented DVD`s and 75% off regular price DVD`s

[housepig]

i was merely posting a topic that interested me (please tell me how many other times you have seen the same post on here)

actually, there's a whole other thread that addresses this same issue, we've been chewing this one for days.

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=151345&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc

- housepig

[jdegelde]

Everyone forgot to mention we are all geeks when it comes to tech stuff anyway. If I weren't creating dvd's I would be messing with digital photos or building a coputer system. It is nice to be the only guy on the block who even has the ablilty to create a dvd and I am sure most of you were like me and were taking stuff apart to "just see how it worked" at an early age. Kind of a sickness really

[tgpo]

I am sure most of you were like me and were taking stuff apart to "just see how it worked" at an early age

I would have replied sooner, but it took a little longer than I thought to get my mouse back together.

[viperjay9]

I do it for the challenge, sure I could go out and buy the dvd but wheres the fun in that?

[defense]

how the hell do these bonehead posts get any responses? Be 4 real....I must of seen 10 bozo's with the same dumb crap post since i've been a member. Just let em' buy the BLLLOOOTTTTYY DVD!

[drewson99]

I keep seeing people include the cost of a DVD rental in their overall cost calculation.

Am I to assume that now it is okay to make references to ripping and burning rentals?

Whenever I made reference to this act, people shunned me and made me out to be the only one on VCDHelp even thinking about such a thing.

[MackemX]

@ afterburn, was it not the same issue with CD burners

soon a large majority of computers will have a DVD burner, just as most people now have CD burners but bear in mind they will not be used for just movies as data can be stored on them and I'm quite sure in time you will be able to have such things as mp3 DVD players in cars and other great technology, reducing the need for CD's just as CD's did to floppies

basically people will jump on the latest technology bandwagon when it best suits them and this is the same for everything and not just DVD burners. Look at DVD recorders, they are exactly the same thing and in time every home will have one aswell as a Video

I held out and managed to snap up a Pioneer 105 for £180 3 months ago when prices were low but I'd held off for ages before I bought my first which was 104 for £250 last year

I remember paying £180 for my Plextor 12X CD burner thinking I was great cos I had the latest and greatest yet that soon faded

that was only 2 years ago and in time will happen to DVD burners, so it's all a question of when you jump on the bandwagon and your time ain't now by the looks of things

the funny thing is that 20Gb+ Blue Ray DVD's are now available so will you hold out for those instead of getting a DVD burner? . (Just kidding)

[Karate Media]

There's a good question at the core of this thread:
Is it worth the money to buy a DVD burner just so you can back-up your DVDs?

In most cases: No. Would you buy a $4000 computer just to surf the Internet? No. Would you buy a top of the line car just so you could drive to the grocery store twice a month? No -- in fact, you might not even buy a car at all if it was only for that purpose.

In his most recent post, afterburn implied that he posted this question as a means of weighing the benefits of buying a DVD burner in the near future. If his only desire is to back-up DVDs (or - more likely - copy rented DVDs) then it is not a wise financial decision. Unless you have way more than 30 or 40 DVDs that you MUST protect with your life (such as the aforementioned Disney movies), then it is more sound to just buy a second copy. As for stealing movies -- again you would have to rip at least 30 or 40 movies before you even broke even (and it's illegal)

I purchased a DVD burner first and foremost to archive the commercial video freelance work I do -- the source files, final footage, etc. of the :30 sec. cable ads I produce fill up a DVD nicely; I was getting tired of archiving the stuff across 5 CDRs or having to zip my files. Second, I wanted to start presenting my work on DVD, and begin working on longer video projects for DVD. (Reason 2.5 is that I like my nerdy toys) Lastly, backing up my DVDs -- in fact, I never even really thought much about it until I was having trouble with my DRX500UL and stumbled upon sites like dvdrhelp.com.

For all of these purposes, I think I made a wise choice in buying a DVD burner. If I just wanted to back-up movies, I could've save much more money by just buying second copies of the DVDs.

Anyway -- my 2 cents. Thank you for letting me ramble on for so long in my first post. Keep up the good work, forum-folks...

[jarvis1781]

yes afterburn I do know the meaning of the word....it is "bold" of you to come here and even bother with such a post on a forum where you know this is what the people here do...."backup movies"

to ask such a question is to go into your office....assuming that you do have a job....and say why in the hell would anyone want to do such a worthless/meaningless job.

for some of us....video editing and publishing is work...so that is rather audacious of you to come here asking for a constructive response to such a ludicrous question

of course there is a purpose to what we do...maybe you just can't see it

and surely you aren't so childish to think that I have seniority over you because I have more posts....on the contrary it is due to the fact that I have higher status in life than you do

[jdizzy40]

Just like in World War II, Americans are still over paid, over sexed and over General Montgomery. And yes like to burn DVDs. Thanks for your support in Iraq. Don't buy French products even if you live in the commonwealth.

[vhelp]

I don't have any arguments..

but, my main reasons for archiving to CDR/RW or DVDR/RW are:
* 1st, it's a form of hobby of mine. I like the challenge of
..pushing the encoding/compression to the extream while still
..maintaining good qualty; and the challenge; for the entertainment;
..and then some.
..Basically, I own all my VHS and DVD's, and I souly do my transfers
..to CDR/RW or DVDR/RW's for my enjoyment and so on and so forth.

* VHS, backing us (if you want to call it that) but mostly because
..I like the CDR alternative vs. having a clunky VHS tape juggling
..and not to mention, they WARE are REALLY fast too - like after the
..second viewing, depending on the condition of your VCR, the dust
..and moisture/humidity level in your home

* Capturing, I do lots of it. My Video devices range from Analog to
..DV digital and always straight to AVI, if you want MAXimum quality,
..else you can go for lower quality, and use a hardware MPEG capture
..card or real-time software MPEG capture and encode, route. But,
..any way you go (en' route) your final destination is CDR/RW or to
..DVDR/RW.

* the thrill to try out new ideas w/ Video transfring to/from one
..media type to another. Especially, when new technologies arrives.
..It's always a challenge to try something new.

* Technique.., There are those of us that in addition to using as a hobby,
..also use it to learn and/or sharpen their/our tooling. By "tooling" I mean
..things like, Filtering and Encoding.. perfecting either of the two. You'd
..be surprised at just how far one can go w/ Filtering and Encoding.

* Did I leave out anything here.. just add it to the list. As, there are
..much more to say on this, but I can't think of everything in so short a
..time here.

The time it takes, from start to finish, is the deciding factor in a
given persons aim for quality. You have to weigh the consiquences, if
there are any. You have to make comprimises as well. Last.. there
are MANY variables w/ respect to the above, and then some.

My guess is, you thogut it was gonna be soo easy, till you started
using arithmetic, adding the pros and cons etc. But, the above and
then some, is the reality of the Video world.. some can cut it, and
some can't ( like yourself maybe )
Perhaps you didn't realise that, the time required for archinving or transfering
video source materials, from start to finish, and then to CDR/RW or DVDR/RW was
FOR ALL projects.. not one.

Well, I could go on and on here, but I'll stop.
Have a good evening, weekend
-vhelp

[afterburn]

@ jarvis

at you, cyber crusader, thanks for proving my point

unfortunately i have dignified your post with a response for the 2nd time - i won't do it again, promise

enjoy your "life"

[MackemX]

@ jarvis

at you, cyber crusader, thanks for proving my point

unfortunately i have dignified your post with a response for the 2nd time - i won't do it again, promise

enjoy your "life"

what point was that, have I missed something , please tell me