Is capturing using DV camcorder best?

[Chulo]

Hello all, this is my first post.

Lately I realized that I could transfer all my VHS tapes to vcd. I have two questions regarding this:

1) Which way is better to do this---through a DV camcorder(which I have) or getting a TV capture card and hook up the vcr directly to the computer?
I have heard that capturing through digital camcorder gives better results.

2) Also, is Adobe Premiere the best software to edit or are there better programs that give the best quality vcd?

Thanks and I appreciate the help.

[bugster]

Chulo wrote:

I have heard that capturing through digital camcorder gives better results.

Not necessarily, but its simple and does take some beating quality wise, especially for the low effort required.

[rsuave5]

the pass through of your cam is easy and does good. better results with the card can be expected but try the cam out first and see how you like .

premiere in my opinion is the best editor around although it is also to me the suckiest interface and hard to catch onto but the tools are great and effects look professional.only 6.5 will encode in svcd and it does a poor job and takes forever i edit and save as dv avi the convert with tmpenc with gredat results! burn with nero to vcd or ulead moviefactory to dvd!

[ralexander41]

Bugster, Why did you say that the quality isn't as good when capturing video using the A/D in a DV camcorder instead of using a capture card? I have read the opposite. Do you have some data to support this or is this speculation? I am trying to decide whether to use my Canon ZR50's A/D converter or buy a capture card. Any advice would be appreciated.

Roger

[Jester700]

It depends on the capture card. A DV cam compresses the video into DV format, which though very high quality (less loss than a DVD), is still a generation of compression. Capturing an uncompressed stream and then going to MPEG for DVD can result in better video, but takes a lot of disk speed (think RAID).

For most people the loss in using a DV cam as an intermediate step is a good choice and very convenient.

[Bondiablo]

Use the cam. You'll get much better quality than ANY capture card, unless you're willing to spend well over $1000 perhaps 2 or 3 thousand.

[yg1968]

Uncompressed avi is 65gig per hour.

Many camcorders have a TBC which is very useful if you are capturing from VHS (a normal capture card does not have this).

[vhelp]

.
.

ralexander41,
I have the Canon ZR-10 and use it like a mini TIVO using miniDV tapes.
I prefer this method over the pass-through simple because:
1, if I make a mistake, I can always go back to the tape and try again.
.. I DO NOT have to wait till the TV station re-airs the program months later.
2, even if it were a VHS tape I was trying to transfer to DV, if I made
.. a mistake or notice issues, I would not have to put in my VHS tape and
.. run it trough again. What if you VHS tape is old or very sensitive,
.. not that it would be, but it could be a tape w/ many issues and you don't
.. want to have to drag it through again making thing possibly worse, not
.. that it would, but could be the case in some. Instead, I would just pop
.. back in the miniDV tape I recorded VHS to and go from their. This way,
.. I have a digital backup copy that I can use over and over, perserving
.. what little may be left of the VHS tape to begin with.
.. With a pass-through, you would HAVE to re-run that VHS tape through
.. again, and for a newbie/beginner, I would definately recommend the miniDV
.. tape route, simply because a newbie/beginner will undoublely make mistakes
.. ect. causing them to re-try again.

Now, MY prefered method of DV-to-SVCD is like this:
* to capture it w/ a capture card. I choose not to use the firewire transfer
.. to DV method. I felt that color was still a little washed out, even
.. when used w/ MainConcept's DV codec.
* So, instead, I capture everything that goes through my mini TIVO (CAM)
.. by capturing from the DV cam, hence my use of the term, mini TIVO.
.. I prefer (IMO) to capture w/ a catpure card. I feel I am getting the best
.. possible quality (and I've shown many sample clips using my mini TV) and
.. perfered method. But, this quality is a subjective one. It's my opinion
.. that going this route is the better way. I haven't looked back, though I
.. do do some firewire transfer of DV from my CAM when I'm testing stuff out.
* when I capture from my mini TIVO, I capture at full resolution 720x480. I
.. would capture from whatever capture card I felt like using at the time I
.. do my capturing and stuff. I use my ATW, WTVGO, DC10+ ect. It all depends
.. where my mini TIVO is and where I'm sitting at the time. I haven't quite
.. figured out WHICH is the best method/process yet, but until I do, I'll just
.. say that I do it this way or that way, etc.

In your case, you already have the CAM, and the PC. All you need (if you don't
alread) is a firewire card $19 to $39 is about right. This would probably be
your best bet because of your current setup. Plus, in addition, you won't
or should not have any frame drops when going the firewire route. So, I
would definately recommend the firewire route for your video transfer method.
Just be sure you have a DV codec properly installed and vbub ready for your
framering to TMPG.

If you are thinking of capturing from the VCR w/ a capture card, ten again, I
would have to say, stay w/ your current setup. Just get a firewire card and
you're about ready to go. For you VHS transfer. If you record them to miniDV
tapes, then you'll benefit from the TBC of the DV CAM. I can't say it you'll
end up w/ a TBC transfer if you go the PASS-THROUGH route though. I do know
from experienct, that if I recorded the VHS to my miniDV tapes, I got a slitely
better or stable picture vs. if I had gone and captured directly from the
VCR w/ a capture card hooked up to the VCR.
If however, you record from VHS to your miniDV tapes w/ your cam and you capture
form the CAM, you'll still benefit from the TBC part. So, weather you use the
firewire route or capture card to your DV cam, you'll get a good slitley more
stable video picture on your HD, once transfered (FW or Capture card)
Mind you, this does not always work 100% of the time, as it really depends on
how bad or good the VHS tape quality is, and what age these VHS tapes are etc.
So, please don't assume that EVERY vhs tape will pass w/ a successful TBC'd
image.

what yg1968 was saying was that if you were to capture at 720x480 in
an uncompessed format for a 1 hour project, you'd be talking 65Gigs of HD space!
You're better off w/ the firewire route. Spare yourself the greaf, as in your
case, the quality difference w/ be my-nuute to say the least.

And, don't expect a perfect run-through the first time. Sometimes it works
for first timers, and other times, its a pain in the butt.

Damn, I talk too much.
Anybody else?

Good luck.
-vhelp

[bugster]

Bugster, Why did you say that the quality isn't as good when capturing video using the A/D in a DV camcorder instead of using a capture card?
Roger

I didn't, read my post:

Not necessarily, but its simple and does take some beating quality wise, especially for the low effort required.

You can get better captures with a high end capture card, capturing in uncompressed avi or a lossless compression like huffy, but if you already have a digital cam with AV input, its going to take some beating. Read what is written before responding please.

[franco]

You can get better captures with a high end capture card, capturing in uncompressed avi or a lossless compression like huffy, but if you already have a digital cam with AV input, its going to take some beating. Read what is written before responding please.

Hi Guys, I have posted a similiar thread regarding a DV Bridge as opposed to an analogue capture card, but can I take it from the posts mentioning DV being uncompressed and yg1968 saying that if you were to capture at 720x480 in an uncompessed format for a 1 hour project, you'd be talking 65Gigs of HD space, that for anyone wanting to capture analogue VHS tapes to put on DVDR, DV is not suitable because it is not compressed????????

I am hoping to capture many hours of VHS footage with the best possible quality. It seems that DV might not be the best idea if it will take up so much space.

[bugster]

franco, you must not have understood what has been said. DV is compressed, about 5:1 I believe, and 1 hour of 720*480 video takes up about 13Gig (still pretty big). completley uncompressed is about 65Gig an hour. A DV bridge (or DV camcorder with analog in) will provide good quality capture and is generally much easier to set up and use than an analog capture card. For experts who want to do uncompressed capture or those that like great versatility in their tools, a good analog capture card is the way to go (IMHO).

[franco]

Thanks Bugster, I'm completely new to this and am trying to fathom the best set up prior to buying a card so excuse my ignorance.

On your last point, why do you say an analogue card gives you better versatility than a DV bridge???

[bugster]

Thanks Bugster, I'm completely new to this and am trying to fathom the best set up prior to buying a card so excuse my ignorance.

On your last point, why do you say an analogue card gives you better versatility than a DV bridge???

Well, obviously it depends to a certain extent on the analog card and the software tools available to work with it but DV (AFAIK) is fixed at 720*480 (576 Pal) and DV compression (obviously). With an analog card you can select you capture resolution (within limits of course), compression method (if any) etc. Basically it is just a lot more tweakable. Obviously this varies from card to card, but if you like to fiddle with settings and adjust parameters, the you should choose an analog card over a DV bridge.

However, IMO, for most home users, a DV bridge or DV camcorder will get you great results and are difficult to beat on price/performance.

[yg1968]

Hi,

I apologize for not being clear on my first post. I meant uncompressed avi at 720x480 would be 65 gig an hour. DV is 13 gig an hour. I should have been clearer.

On the issue of the TBC, from what I have read, you can easily have an out of sync file problem if you are capturing from VHS with a normal capture card because of the low quality of aging VHS tapes. As Vhelp has mentionned in a different posts, a good way of fixing this problem is to capture smaller files. Or else to tape directly from your TV to DV.

The TBC on the camcorder corrects this out of sync problem when capturing from VHS tapes and therefore allows you to capture bigger files that are in sync and without any dropped frames (provided that you are using Windows XP or 2000 with NTFS).

I have to admit that the original looks slightly better than the DVD copies of my VHS tapes but I think that's because of the quality of my low-end DVD player. I haven't noticed any colour washout.

[nanjil]

guys:

I have a AIW 7500 and it does a good job of capturing at DVD/high resolution mpeg2 (> 6000 bps) directly from vhs tape.

I also do capturing through my JVC dv camcorder pass through if I am going to do lot of editing.

The dv capture, I feel is superior and in fact is quite easy

[nsdn]

U can't go past using the DV cam as a bridge.......plus all the best editing programs like DV avi streams.

Unfortunitly my DV cam has no analogue inputs.....but the next best thing is to capture with a card using a DV codec....

not sure who said it looked washedout....u must be doing something wrong....or your capture program did not allow u to tweek the chroma/contrast/brightness during capture.

Don't mess about...use your camera to capture bridge firewire it to your PC in DV format. All things considered, this is the best method period.

What is the material that is on VHS? are they old movies or familly video? If its familly video that u want to save.....I would sugest buying a bunch of DV tapes and archive them (the DV tapes) until u can afford a DVD burner...I just completed this exercise with 13 DV tapes

Oh and the VERY best way to convery the DV AVI to mpeg is use DVD2SVCD in AVI mode. Use the cinemacraft encoder option in dvd2svcd rather than tmpge. Cinemacraft is definitly superior when using 4 pass VBR.

[dvfan]

Can someone please tell me what TBC stands for?

[nsdn]

Time base corrector....gets the jiggles out so to speak