Capturing 8mm to my PC

[cpgoose]

Hi, I haven't been able to find this, so I hope I'm not missing it.

Can someone direct me on how to capture 8mm film onto my pc.
We have one of those old projects with the small reel of film, and
I would like to capture it somehow to create VCDs with.

Any ideas or suggestions?

[wwaag]

I presume that you mean 8mm film rather than video 8. Actually, there is still interest in using 8mm film--e.g. Kodak still sells it. Do a search on Google and you can find a number of websites.

To answer your question, it depends on how many reels you have. If you only have a few, I would recommend that you take it to photo shop that provides this service. They will charge you by the foot and can transfer it to tape. Some shops will give you an option as to the tape format (VHS, 8mm, DV, etc.) For only a few rolls, this is by far the easiest solution.

However, if you have lots of film, this becomes pretty expensive. In that case you can do it yourself, although you will still need some equipment. If you want to record a projected 8mm film image using a camcorder, you will first need a projector. Even before that you need to know whether it is regular 8 or Super 8. You can obtain a projector that does both regular 8 and super 8 although I am told the quality is not as good. I have one that does both and given the quality of the original film, it probably doesn't make any difference. However, it is absolutely essential that you have a VARIABLE SPEED projector. For example, Super 8 usually projects at 18 frames/sec. If you videotape this image, there will occur a strobing effect because of the mismatch in frame rates. After a couple of minutes you will have a headache (worse than macrovision). You have to be able to vary speed so that it projects at either 15 or 20 fps (multiple of 5). Again, having a variable speed projector is critical. I picked up one on ebay a couple of years ago for about $150 (virtually new but not cheap). Beware of some of the older ones because of availability of replacement bulbs (my first purchase for $15).

Once you have the projector, you need something on which to project the image. Almost anything "white" will work--posterboard, matboard, etc. At this point, you need to "experiment" with different display surfaces. I'm still not completely happy with any that I have used thus far, although given the quality of the original film, it probably doesn't matter.

Hope this will be of help. Again, check out the 8mm film websites as they often have guides on how to videotape 8 mm film. If you have questions, let me know.

[cpgoose]

Wow, thanks for that whole reply!

Ok, I have a LOT of these reels, so I'll probably do it myself.
It's my parents old movies, so they have both Regular
and Super 8 film. They have an old projector that shows
all of their film, so I guess it shows Regular and Super 8.
As for speed, it either has 2 speeds, or a speed dial for any
speed, I can't remember (but I think it's the second one).

SO are you saying that, to do this, I need to record it onto a
camcorder, and then transfer that to my pc? I think we have
some sort of transfer box (we haven't used it yet...a present
for my dad) that you put the camcorder up to on one side,
and the projector up to on the other side, and record it.

SO I guess I can do it that way, and then put it on my pc,
and eventually put it on a VCD?

(Now I just have to learn how to capture video on my pc, that's
my next endeavor. I don't have a capture card yet, just that
Intel webcam that you can import video with, but it either sucks
for that, or my pc isn't fast enough (450mhz 354mb ram)).



THANKS AGAIN!

[wwaag]

Glad the info was useful to you.

Just a suggestion. I too had a slow PII-450 that I upgraded to a PIII-850 which is still slow by most standards. I purchased a firewire card (ADS Platinum DV which included a whole bunch of software including Adobe Premiere 6.0 for editing) and a Canopus ADVC-100 (an analog to digital converter). With this setup, I have yet to lose a frame. You can input any video source (camcorder, VHS tape, etc.).

Incidentally, I too have one of those transfer boxes which really don't work too well. When I bought my projector, I corresponded with someone who was in the business of doing these transfers. According to him at least, the best way is to project the image on a surface and record from a camcorder.

Actually, if you use a setup like I have, you can use your camcorder as a "camera" and do real-time captures without actually recording. Once you have finished your editing, then record out to tape or make a VCD. In any case, it's pretty time consuming.

Have fun.

[cpgoose]

"I too had a slow PII-450 that I upgraded to a PIII-850...I have yet to
lose a frame." Cool, so at least I know I'm not doing everything
totally wrong, and it's probably my slow pc.

I have yet to learn about firewire cards and such. Are they like
a capture card (with either coaxial or RCA inputs) or something
totally different?

This would be cool, because aside from all of the reels that I would
like to convert, I have a lot of VHS tapes, too, that I would like to do.

Thanks again for the help, you are really helping.

[jbarr]

cpgoose,

I'm beginning to do just what you want to do. Quick explanation...

A Firewire card is basically a card that goes into your computer that adds one or more Firewire "ports". I really don't know the technical details (I don't think it's important for this thread) but think of Firewire as USB on steroids. A DV camera connects to your PC via a Firewire port allowing you to transfer video from the camera to the PC (either recorded or live.) While USB is great for transferring still images, it is simply too slow to be able to accomplish video transfers.

I have my eye on a Canon ZR series camcorder (ZR45MC or ZR50MC) that should do the trick. My only new concern is what I have read here and in other posts about syncing the frame speed. It sounds like that's a function of the projector as opposed to the camcorder. (ie: you need a variable-speed projector). I just purchased a used, cheap projector off of eBay, and it is variable speed, but unfortunatly, something seems to be bogging down the motor and it runs sluggishly. When it gets too slow, and it melt the film (ouch!!!) Hopefully, it's just a matter of cleaning out and oiling up some of the moving parts.

My main problem is that I have well over 100 reels that I would like to convert, and I don't like the prospect of paying literally a couple thousand dollars to have someone profressionally do it. I would rather invest in a DV camcorder and a DVD burner and do it myself. My goal is to transfer as much as I can to the PC and do all the editing there, ultimatly burning the final copy onto DVD. Once on DVD, dumping it to VHS is a no-brainer.

It's great to see other people wanting to do the same thing!

I'll leave updates on this forum as I progress through this "adventure"!

[Issachar]

This is a good thread.
One of you posted that you'd also like to capture VHS tapes to your PC HD's.
Well, firewire is the way to go if you can, but it won't work for the VHS.
"Firewire" is a nick-name for a IEEE standard, 1394. No big deal... that's just what it is. It is for highspeed transfer of digital data. A digital camera with a firewire port can be connected to a pc via a pc firewire port. It is all digital info.
A VHS VCR output is analog. You can't copy analog info via firewire. So, you will need a capture card that accepts both analog in and firewire in. I use Pinnacle Systems DV500Plus. It comes with some very nice editing software (Adobe Premiere 6.0) I can copy video to my HD's via firewire or analog. Both work great. You also, via the firewire, have control of the camera (digital) from the screen with your mouse. (STOP, PLAY, FF, REW, ETC.)
I have projected 8mm film on a screen and pointed a video camera at it and had the output of the camera connected to the capture card and recorded directly to the HD's. (expect approx. 14GB per hour of video/audio) With the editing software, Premiere in my case, it is extremely easy to cut out the junk footage, create incredibly cool and/or subtle transitions from one clip to the next and add in any music/voice/soundeffects, etc.
I am very new at this but have been successful in my few endeavors.
I just got a Pioneer DVR-A04 DVD burner but haven't figured it out yet.

Issachar

[jbarr]

Oh, the confusion abounds!

You said:

"A VHS VCR output is analog. You can't copy analog info via firewire. So, you will need a capture card that accepts both analog in and firewire in."

OK, that I understand. VCRs don't have a A/D converter and have no FireWire connection. That makes sense.

Then you said:

"I have projected 8mm film on a screen and pointed a video camera at it and had the output of the camera connected to the capture card and recorded directly to the HD's. (expect approx. 14GB per hour of video/audio)"

This is where I'm confused. I understand that there are two methods of getting the camcorder DV video into you PC:

1. Capture directly to the PC from the live video, edit the resulting file, and convert the file to whatever you final output format requires.

2. Record the video to a MiniDV tape on the CamCorder and then transfer the resulting DV file from the camcorder to the PC. Once on the PC, the file could be edited and converted to whatever output format you need.

This is where I get confuesd. In method 2, are you actually "transferring" the "file" or are you just "playing" the recording to the PC via FireWire and capturing it?

For both methods, I thought it was as simple as installing a FireWire card in the PC, connecting the two with an appropriate cable, running appropriate software, and then either transferring the DV file or capturing the DV stream.

I know I am missing something here. (I've been a computer geek since about 1983 and this is the first time I really feel like such a newbie!!! Aahhrrrgg!!!) [/quote]

[Issachar]

Sorry for any confusion I may have introduced. Let me try this:

Digital camera (e.g. mini-DV) w/firewire output - Record on mini-DV tape wherever/whatever you want. Bring the camera home and plug the cameras firewire output to you firewire input on your computer. Record data to HD's and edit as you wish.

Analog camera or VCR - (e.g. VHS, VHS-C, Hi8, etc.) Record on tape wherever/whatever you want. Bring camera home and plug the cameras analog outputs to the computers analog inputs. Record data to HD's and edit as you wish.

To do either of the above or either of the two following, you need a analog capture card or a digital (firewire) capture card. There are also several cards available that will capture either. They have analog connectors and they also have firewire connectors.

You can also, with no tape in the camera(s), connect the firewire or analog output of the camera to the firewire or analog input of your computer, and just turn on the camera and record to the HD whatever the camera is "seeing".

YOU: "This is where I get confuesd. In method 2, are you actually "transferring" the "file" or are you just "playing" the recording to the PC via FireWire and capturing it?"
ME: I'm not sure what you are asking here. Yes you are "transferring the file" by "playing the recording" via firewire.

YOU: "For both methods, I thought it was as simple as installing a FireWire card in the PC, connecting the two with an appropriate cable, running appropriate software, and then either transferring the DV file or capturing the DV stream."
ME: hmmm.... they are the same thing. You have the mini-DV tape in the digital camera with your material on it. You connect the firewire cable between the camera and firewire port on the computer. You press "play" on the camera (in VCR mode) and click on record in your capturing software.
You cannot connect an analog camera to a firewire port. You need an analog capture card for that. The capture card will convert the analog into digital for storage on your HD. The digital camera's info is already digital and can be directly transferred to the HD via firewire.

Let me know if some is still not certain......

Issachar

[jbarr]

Issachar,

OK, I think I understand my misconception. I thought that the DV recording on a MiniDV tape was recored as a "file" just like a file is stored on a hard drive. I thought that when the DV recording gets "transferred" from the camera to a PC, it was being "copied" kinda like you would copy from Drive "A:" to Drive "C:" on a PC. My brother-in-law just purchased a Kodak still camera, and the connection dock and connection software actually map a drive letter so that files can be "copied" from the camera to the PC. That's my mistake. The MiniDV camcorder does NOT work that way.

So, what you are saying is that though the data is stored digitally on the MiniDV tape, in order to get it from the camcorder to the PC, you have to transfer ("play") the video over the FireWire port to the PC where the PC will capture it using one of a myriad of capture programs typically resulting in either a .avi or mpeg file?

That makes perfect sense to me. I'm sorry if I am complicating this issue. I'm just one of those who love to know the how and why of everythin, and this process confused me a bit.

Thanks for your explanation and help! Looks like I will be going out soon and purchase a Canon ZR45MC MiniDV camcorder. It is reasonably proced, has a TON of features, it's small, and I now know that I can use it (more or less) for transferring 8mm film (by pointing the camera at a projection) and old VHS tapes to my PC via the camcorder. I have a 1.6GHz Pentium 4 PC running Windows XP, with a 40GB HDD and a CD burner. Time to begin creating some VCDs!!!

I hope I got this right!

Thanks again!

-Jim

[Issachar]

Sounds like you've got it Jim.
I have a question now and one comment.
Question: (I don't own a digital camera yet) One can plug the output of a analog device into a digital camera and let the camera be the converter to digital and then on through firewire to the pc's firewire port?

Comment: You may want to add a second HD to your computer for just video capture. You may drop frames using the same one all your apps and OS are on.

Issachar

[cpgoose]

hey everyone....nothing like dredging up an old topic

I'm still runnin' the same old 450mhz with 300+mg of ram. I'm starting
to see these ads on tv for a 1.8Ghz Dell with a bunch of other stuff for
about $550. Curious to know if you guys think this would be adequate
for capturing VHS tapes and 8mm reels to my pc, and either making
VCDs or (hopefully....eventually) DVDs.

I came back to this post, and re-read everything on here. Since I have
VHS tapes, 8mm reels, and a camcorder (not a DV camcorder), I can
go buy a capture card that has an analog input. I guess for now I don't
need a Firewire input as I don't have a DV camcorder. I think Issachar
mentioned a Pinnacle Systems DV500Plus card that has both. I'm
assuming it would be cheaper just to get an analog one, since that's all
I need for the meantime.

Anyone have any good suggestions for this type?
Any would the Dell be ok, or do you have other suggestions.

It would be cool to get this topic up and running again to see what
progress people have made. My tapes and reels are still sitting in the
boxes

THANKS!

[alegator]

Hi cpgoose. I just read all messages in this discussion since it is one of my favorite topics: video capturing/editing/DVD authoring.
Plus I also have lots of 8mm reels from my parents and old VHS tapes. Worst of all, I do have all the equipment: 8mm projector (I have to replace the bulb), MiniDV Camcorder (Sony DCR-TRV950), Dell Dimension8200 (P4 2.53Ghz,2Gb RDRAM,240Gb HD,DVD+RW drive,Analog/firewire capture card).
Regarding your system, if you plan to do serious video work you should invest some money and upgrade it: have a dedicated hard drive for captured video files (60Gb min), go for a P4 above 1 Ghz, and have at least 512MB RAM, plus of course an analog/firewire capture card. Then if you want to burn your video to DVD I suggest a DVD+R/RW burner (which is superior to the - standard).
To your satisfaction my 8mm reel tapes are also getting dust inside their box as I have been lazy!

[cpgoose]

that's awesome alegator! 2.53 Ghz....man that must be fast!
So how do YOU go about converting VHS and 8mm to DVDs?
Some were saying with the firewire, and some with analog.
I know you said you have both, but do you use your MiniDv camcorder
for all of it?

Plus I'm getting into the whole DVD burning realm, too. How much
VHS video can you fit onto a DVD? (just out of curiousity).

It would be really cool to keep this topic going....seeing what people
have been doing and all.

Thanks for the reply!

[Issachar]

Just a quick note for now to let ya'll know I'm back on here after a looonng break.
Been very, very busy. I got laid-off at the start of August this past summer and have been endeavoring to take my "on the side" video business to full time. Whew......... grueling.
Since I've last posted here:
I built my own PC to save a lot of dollars. Well worth it.
1.6Ghz P4
1GB RDRAM
40GB-7200 WD for C:
Two 80GB-7200 IBM in a RAID-0 config. for 153GB for video capture/edit
Pinnacle Systems DV500Plus which came with Adobe Premiere 6.0 and has analog inputs as well as fire wire. I think you knew all this so far.
Now:
Two 19" monitors that work as one off of a Matrox G550 and I have them set as 2560 X 1024 (lots-o-real estate )
Sound Forge 6.0 for audio
Upgraded to Premiere 6.5
Added Adobe Illustrator 10, Photoshop 7.0 and After Effects 5.5
A REAL cool addition has been a Pioneer PRV-9000. It is a stand alone DVD player/burner. Records realtime like a regular VCR. Lots of nifty options. Still exploring.
Bought a lighting kit (ARRI II)
Just Friday, got my first 3 chip camera. Went with the new Panasonic
AG-DVX100.
Non video related, I added a BBE-882, sonic maximizer to my audio gear. Now I don't like my audio without it. It is a major improvement. You can find a lot on the internet if you're interested.
I am transferring VHS for folks right to DVD with the PRV-9000. So far, the disks have worked on a lot of players. If I find one it won't work on, I'll pass it on.
I'm looking at fixing my 8mm projector so I can do film again. It broke early this past summer. It does have a continuously variable speed control on it. That makes it so I can video tape the film without obnoxious lines running through it. I just set up a piece of printer paper, make the projected image be about 8 X 10ish inches and point a camera at it. I was using another camera I got earlier this summer before the projector went toes up. It is new too. (for me) It is a single chip, Sony TRV-27. I'm using that for "cover shots" at weddings etc.
Talk to you all later.......
Issachar

[alegator]

The first step in DVD authoring is having the video file in the appropiate format in you hard drive and for that you need to CAPTURE. If I happen to use my MiniDV camcorder, the source is digital, therefore I can capture using a firewire card. If the source is analog (for example a VHS VCR or an analog videocamera) I need an analog capture card that has either S-Video port or Composite (L and R) video ports plus the audio input.
After the file is captured in your hard drive, you can edit it to your taste and then convert it to the format of your choice before burning the DVD.
Hope I was clear.
Ale

[presto]

A few years ago I took my parents old film to Sears and had them do the transfer. The quality was amazing. I had NEVER seen these films look so good.

I think I had a few dozen of those small (3") reels. It cost less than 200.00

I suggest you have a pro transfer a some of your reels (Maybe you can just have them do 50.00 worth). Then you would have something to compare your transfers to.

Remember your time is worth money too. It may in the end be more economical to spend the thousands to this. If you're like me those films are priceless.

You'll still be able to have plenty of satisfaction (and frustration) editing, adding titles and making Disks for family and friends.

[cpgoose]

cool, thanks for the replies!

3 questions:

1. About how much VHS video can you fit on one (~4.3gig) DVD?
2. How much are you charging for these?
3. Where are you buying all of your stuff? If I wanted to buy one of
these capture cards....should I look over the net....or are stores like
BestBuy good for it too?

Ok, 4 questions