best settings?

[sage72]

Hey people, great site!
I have some simple(?) questions...:
If my source file(which is divX) is in ntsc, is it preferred to convert it to a ntsc-mpg file? I live in Norway which use pal, but my dvd-player can take both so I just want what would give my vcd the best quality. I used the ntsc-template in TEMPGEnc and burned it as ntsc, but i'm not quite satisfied with my video-output...
So what do you guys suggest to do..?

btw...I used non-interlace,bottom-first,1:1(vga)...does that matter?

[darkobserver]

Hi! I'm in Europe, too and also have a multi-norm TV.

I usually convert to PAL, because technically it is a better TV norm than NTSC (look for the "DVD FAQ" in Google, for more on this) and I can tape stuff on my VCR that doesn't record NTSC.

But for guys like us who can display either norm, it really doesn't make a difference, I think. Why not just encode the same material with either and see for yourself?

As for the settings: I'd recommend either "Full screen, Keep Aspect ratio" or "Center, keep aspect ratio"

[snowmoon]

Actually it fairly easy to convert to and from PAL to NTSCfilm. Since you live in PAL land, it might be nice to have something that will play back in others DVD players besides your own.

Read up on AVISynth and specifically AssumeFPS command for video.

BeSweet + the GUI make it easy to convert a .wav so be used in a ntscfilm - pal conversion.

[darkobserver]

Hi Snowmoon!

Forgive me, but nowhere in his posting did he refer to "NTSC_film" which I understand as having a framerate of 23.something. He said just NTSC, so I guess his stuff is in the "normal" standard with 29.97 fps.

And what is the problem with doing conversion with TMPGenc like I do? If the resulting PAL wasn't genuine it wouldn't turn up in color on my VCR (NTSC remains B/W)

[snowmoon]

23.976 = Film or NTSCFilm = What Divx films should be.

Doing the Assume FPS and audio conversion will produce more flud motion. With just using the PAL template you will have a slight pause in motion every second or so. It's not THAT bad, but the conversion will full correct it.

It's more work, bt if you are a quality freak ( like me ) it's worth the extra couple of hours to learn ( it's only a few more minutes at conversion time ).

[darkobserver]

I see your point. The stuff I do are mostly TV eps in NTSC 352x240 and I just convert them to PAL, using a high CBR. Looks good enough for my demands, I'd compare it to an LP videotape recording. No jerky motion, even.

Can I ask you one more thing, since no-one else has really replied to the other thread I've opened?

Wouldn't you agree that one should choose the template in TMPgenc based on what the target decoder can manage and not on what the source material is in? People seem to confuse that all the time here and to a newbie this can be troublesome.

Thanks

[snowmoon]

I would say choose the closest template to the source that is compatible with your DVD player(s).

If converting from NTSC to or from PAL there are tricks, but as you know are not 100% necessary.

[sage72]

Hi guys..guess I'm not the only one not fully confident what choise to make.
VirtualDub tells me that my divX-file is 640x432,29.970fps...in other words it is a ntsc-file. In TEMPGenc I then assumed that it would be best to use the ntsc-template, but I'm not satisfied with the quality of the vcd. I used ntsc in NERO too, when I burned it... It's ok, by all means but I guess i'm a bit of a freak too so I would like it to be better...
As darkobserver points out, my source is ntsc and my target is pal(even thou it takes both) so will the template have any effect on the quality? or is there something else that might improve the vcd?
I must agree with darkobserver that the guides have got to be misleading when they only take the source into consideration...the target must mean alot in my sense...?

[darkobserver]

Hey Sage! I almost fell off my seat when I read snowmoon's answer.

Snowmoon: Either you didn't get my meaning or my English truly sucks. Or is it really your opinion that the template should match the source and not the target? Can't be serious. I read the TMPGenc help file and it supports my assessment.

If you -or anyone else- could please read again and clarify things for Sage and me that'd be great!

[darkobserver]

Ah, Sage one more thing: Your source has a relatively high resolution. You never wrote if you were maintaining a high resolution in your MPG.

I'd recommend trying to use the same resolution, either encoding it with MPEG-1 and therefore producing an XVCD or with MPEG-2 and producing an SVCD. The second option can introduce new problems to tackle, but it will probably the quality you're looking for.

[sage72]

Thanks darkobserver, but unfortunatly my dvd-player can't take anything above vcd's..except dvd's of course
Was thinking of maybe "upping" the bitrate, but when I use a template it won't let me change that, I guess

btw..I found that header-fooling-trick...gonna try a svcd. Would be nice to have a clearifying answer to our question first thou, before I fire up TEMPGEnc again

[ZeroKool]

Hey, Sage72

I live in UK and, obviously, most DVD players here are Pal standard - so i encode all my NTSC DivX to Pal Mpeg and havent noticed any difference in quality from NTSC DivX to NTSC Mpeg encoded ones (i have encoded quite a lot). Regards improving the quality i wouldn't suggest "upping" the bitrate (which, in fact, is possible to change if you choose to make Non-Standard VCD, aka XVCD) to a level higher than original source as it would result in choppy video or/and audio plyback. You could try to make XVCD as suggested above unless you absolutely sure your player wont play it (it wont tell you in manual 'coz XVCD is not a common standard) - my XVCDs have been watched on 3 of my friends' players without them even knowing that it was XVCD not VCD.

[sage72]

Ok, thanks zerokool I'm gonna try a PAL-svcd and try the "header-trick" first, if that won't work I'll try the xvcd.

[ZeroKool]

Regards the settings - leave it non-interlace if the source is an AVI file, bottom or top won't matter as it is only enabled if interlace is selected. Keep 1:1 VGA 'coz you are working on PC and those are the correct source parameters (if you change it then your output file will be resized and it is difficult to control which way it will be done). You control the display size by chosing Full Screen (keep aspect ratio) or just a Full Screen if you prefer (this is in Video Arrange Method window).

[darkobserver]

Hi guys! Two things: Sage, you can try to use the same high resolution your source is in even when encoding to MPEG-1, you don't necessarily have to use MPEG-2.

And Zerokool: You didn't say anything about our source/target confusion pertaining to templates. What's your take?

[TheVore]

Re can't change setting when you use a template.

You can load the template in to get the basic setting right and then do another load and load the unlock.cfm file - located in the "extra" folder. This unlocks those settings greyed out and you can start tweeking to your hearts content.

[sage72]

Hi guys! Two things: Sage, you can try to use the same high resolution your source is in even when encoding to MPEG-1, you don't necessarily have to use MPEG-2.

Well maybe, but if I just go for svcd then the quality will improve automaticly...I guess


Tnx thevore, didn't now about that one

[ZeroKool]

Ok, darkobserver - i've seen you posting a lot of messages in different forums regarding this source/target template issue and here's my take as requested. I agree that it is confusing to noobs when selecting the correct template for their VCD as it has been advised in different guides to choose template matching source file specs and therefore a lot of people might be just encoding their NTSC DivX to NTSC Mpeg only to find out later that it does not work in their Pal player (for those living in Europe) or vice versa for those in US (Pal DivX to Pal Mpeg and doesnt work in NTSC player). I think these guides were written more from the technical point of view not the practical: technicly we should choose the source template because the encoder's (TMPGEnc) main task is to ENCODE Avi to Mpeg not CONVERT the frame rate although this is included it TMPGEnc features, so i believe the guide was written correctly but without thinking of people like us who download stuff that might be with a DIFFERENT frame rate than our country's standard. And, obviously, end product quality is better if we don't do the conversion by selecting target file template. But for those who download NTSC file while live in Pal country or vice versa - load the TARGET template as i do unless your player plays both Pal and NTSC since the quality will remain almost as if you loaded the source template anyway. 8)

[ZeroKool]

Sage72 - regarding what i said before about choosing a Non-Standard VCD - this is only possible if you "unlock" the settings as TheVore said, i only forgot to mention that. Be aware though that any tweaking after unlocking will produce XVCD (non-standard VCD) as the settings for VCD are always the same.

[LeeBear]

I don't know if people know this or not, I just figured it out myself. In TMPGEnc if you load up a template and some of the settings are locked (greyed out), you can change the settings without having to load the "unlock" template. Just right click on the name of the what you want to change and choose "unlock". It'll only unlock that particular setting. This is handy if you only want to change a few things in a particular template. I didn't noticed you could do that before.

-LeeBear

[darkobserver]

Zerokool: Thank you very much for your posting. Finally some agreement <g>

I am negotiating with Baldrick how to include what you, me and others are concerned with in the relevant guides. We'll see...

LeeBear: I can confirm what you've said. It's easier to load the "unlock.mcf" though, less clicks than unlocking each individual setting. OTOH it depends on how much one wants to stray from the loaded template.