[b]This will help you get rid of those "lines"...[

[twen]

If you're using Smartripper, DVD2AVI and TMPGEnc then read on...

I've been troubled with this forever and I saw other people have the same problem that I'm having, yet with all those posts in VCDHelp and kvcd sites came no solution (at least I couldn't find one). I'm talking about those "lines" (or "jittery" as some people call it) that happen around moving objects or people after you encoded using TMPGEnc regardless it's a mpg-1 or mpg-2 file. I've finally found "part of" the solution on Doom9! (Here's the link: http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/mpg/dvd2avi.htm) And I completed the rest of it! Here's another one: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32826

First of all, I'm in the good old USA, that means the DVDs that we are getting here are 29.97fps. (you can see that after you ripped the vob files and run with DVD2AVI), and I have not yet come across one DVD that says 23.976 fps. Films are shot with 23.976fps, but when put on DVDs (US market) 6 more frames were added (please search elsewhere for detailed explanation for this). Those "lines" are results from those 6 frames!

Thanks to doom9, all you have to do is select "Force FILM" in DVD2AVI and that will get rid of those lines later on when you encode with TMPGEnc!

Here's the other half part that will complete the process and give you a perfect end product:
After you brought in the .d2v and .wav into the TMPGEnc and load up your choice of template, you'll see the frame rate under video tab as "23.976", change this back to 29.97fps!

Note: My Mintek1600 will only play 29.97fps correctly so I have to encode it in 29.97fps. I can play 23.976fps on my PC with no problem, but if I burn as VCD and play it on my Mintek the audio will not be in sync with the video. You can do your own experiment with your DVD player and see which frame rate works best with your player. But, either way you will have no more "lines"!

One thing I still don't understand though: DVD2AVI only creates a small .d2v file and a big .wav file, where and when did it force the 29.97fps to 23.976fps to? Because the .vob files are still there to be brought into TMPGEnc thorugh .d2v. And eventually encoded back to 29.97fps again? Anyway, who cares? All I know is it works!!! And I hope this will help people out there who suffer and struggle to get rid of those "lines"!

[snowmoon]

What your are describing is telecine and it's standard procedure for putting films on NTSC video.

Force Film should always be checked for any "Film" source, every guide I've ever seen recommends that option.

For VCD use NTSCFilm as this is a completly standard VCD any player that does not play it does not support the standard. For Mpeg-2 you can either use the NTSCFilm template or make sure to select "pulldown on playback" so that TMPGenc inserts the correct flags into the stream.

If you are still getting "jerky" motion then you have the wrong field order set.

If you are still getting "lines" then you have a diffrent problem.

[snowmoon]

If you're using Smartripper, DVD2AVI and TMPGEnc then read on...

...
Here's the other half part that will complete the process and give you a perfect end product:
After you brought in the .d2v and .wav into the TMPGEnc and load up your choice of template, you'll see the frame rate under video tab as "23.976", change this back to 29.97fps!

For mpeg-2 this will end up with an inferior frame duplication to fill the space. Telecine/3:2 pulldown is a much better option for changing 23.976->29.97. Pulldown produces smoother motion since it takes advantage of how the TV works.

[twen]

Thanks for the additional footage, snowmoon! So instead of changing it to 29.97fps I should leave it at 23.976fps and check the 3:2 pulldown to get a smoother result? I shall try that after I go back home from work.

I knew about telecine, but you see the confusing part for me was that the source is 29.97fps and my end result has to be 29.97fps, that's why it never occures to me to even bother to force it to 23.976fps, it just doesn't make sense. And plus nobody has explained that's what's causing the "lines". Sometime it's just hard to explain to people what you are trying to say without presenting them a clip. If there's a way to post a short clip showing the problem then it might be easier for people to provide solution, right? Thanks again.

[snowmoon]

The reason to ro 29.97 -> 23.976 -> 29.97.


First off the DVD is probably 23.976 with 3:2 pulldown on playback so that in the VOB file statics it's listed as 29.97. All DVD2AVI is doing is dropping those 3:2 pulldown flags in the VOB. So why is that important? Progressive video ( 23.976 film ) is easier to encode/ requires fewer bits/ comes out higher quality than attempting to encode interlaced 29.97 materal. Now since the NTSC video standard is 29.97 we have to add back those 3:2 pulldown flags back into out 23.976 encoded materal to get it to play back correctly.

Sometimes ( rarley ) you will find DVD's with the telecine ( interlacing ) encoded into the frames. For this you STILL use the 23.976 3:2 pulldown on playback but you will also need to use the TMPGenc filter IVTC ( Inverse Telecine ) to recover the original 23.976 from the video stream as DVD2AVI will not be able to.

NOTE: I'm not a ripper, so some of this info (dvd2avi) may be out of date.

[snowmoon]

Telecine info..

http://www.geocities.com/ksong1222/telecine.htm

[twen]

Tried 3:2 pull down last night, it doesn't work for me. I've tried keeping the frame rate to 23.976 and checked 3:2 with Deinterlace both on and off, I even tried changing it to 29.976 with same options and they all came out with "lines". ONLY when I change it to 29.976 and don't check anything then I would get a clean and sharp mpg-1 with audio and video perfectly in sync. And no skipping and pausing during playback, at least the first 10 minutes or so because I didn't finish watching the whole movie (I typically watch it first with rental, if it's good then I rip it and watch it again at a later time). What can I say?

By the way, the movie was Pay It Forward, Film 99%(Not sure it's at exact %, but most are 99%), and I used Force Film.

[snowmoon]

Can you post a picture of the "lines"?

What type od DVD player/TV are you viewing the video on?

[twen]

Sorry, don't know how to post one. Besides, I have to wait 'till after work and reencode a short clip tonight.

I using Mintek1600 player on my 32" Sony (excellent TV), and PowerDVD on PC (AMD XP2000). I have two more Sony DVD players but them don't play CD-R and CD-RW, that's why I bought the Mintek.

[snowmoon]

I'll assume you only get the line son your mintek/tv combo?

[twen]

No, it shows up both on PC using PowerDVD and on TV when burnt on CD-RW as VCD.

[twen]

I've found that if I don't use 3:2 and change the frame rate to 29.976fps I could get rid of the horizontal lines, but every once if a while the picture will have flickers. And you are right the picture is not as smooth as using 3:2 pull down. I wonder if I use Deinterlace what option shall I choose and will it improve the line problem? Any advice?

[snowmoon]

Flicker is due to the fact that the picture is interlaced. You shouldn't do this, but you can get rid of it by doing a deinterlace with a blend option. When the contrast is high between two lines it will blur them slightly to remove the flicker.

[twen]

I was busy at work for the past few days and wasn't able to play with it more. Let's continue.

If what you stated is correct that DVD is actually at 23.976 with 3:2 pulldown on playback, by using "Force Film" in DVD2AVI and gets it back to 23.976, I cannot use 3:2 pulldown when playback as encode mode with mpg-1(VCD), right? If I change it to mpg-2(SVCD) then I can use it. Is there any other way you can use this with mpg-1?

I've tried using 3:2 pulldown under Advanced tab, but that changes the frame rate to 29.976 and although it plays on TV but the quality isn't good. It's different from 3:2 pulldown when playback mode. How can I resolve this problem with mpg-1?

Now since the DVD is shown as Film 99% under DVD2AVI, does that mean it's not interlaced but is being flaged to convert to interlaced during playback? Or is it in fact interlaced? (Confusing, isn't it?)

Telecining is by adding 6 frames into 23.976 to make it 29.976, right? It's different from Interlacing where a frame is being splitted into two fields and interlaced together during playback. My question is: if the DVD is non-interlaced and brought in to TMPGEnc as 23.976 using Force Film, how do you flag it to playback as interlaced on TV (using 3:2 just telecing it but not interlacing it, right)? Does the player automatically do it?

I know it's a lot of questions, but I've read so many materials from here, Luke's Video Guide, Adobe site, Pure Motion, and many other sources, tell you the truth it's getting clearer and unclear at the same time.

[snowmoon]

http://www.kvcd.net/dvd-models.html

Mintek 1600 ! ! ? Must be at 29.97 fps / Mixed reports


Sounds like you player may just never be able to handle 23.976.... Sorry.

[twen]

I knew my player can only playback 29.976 fps. My question was: if the DVD is 99% Film by using Force Film to get it back to 23.976 fps, is it now interlaced or not? If it is, then by using 3:2 pulldown to 29.976 it is still interlaced, if it is not wouldn't the 3:2 pulldown still make it non-interlaced?