SVCD creation... Premier to Nero roadblocks

[s2krazy]

I recently built up a new computer, around an Abit IT7, P4 2.26, 512mg ram, ATI 8500 A-I-W 64 DV, and a Aopen CDRW burner. Nero software came included with the CD burner. I am just learning about Video editing and have successfully uploaded from a DV camera into the computer.

I have edited the file in Premier 6.0 and exported to an .avi file. I want to make a SVCD. Apparently many have run into problems working with the Adobe .avi file and converting it to a MPEG-2 for burning. (I am aware of avisynth-> TMPEGenc workaround, but am still concerned I'll need a Nero plugin...) I thought I had a work around solution by importing the file into Uled Video Studio 5.0 and using that program’s MPEG-2 encoder to render a file. However, when I tried to burn the SVCD in Nero, I was prompted to purchase a plugin from their website.

While I was there, I also noticed there is a version 5.5 for sale. I’d happily purchase the new program if it will do what I want, but it appears that I need to still purchase the plugin for 5.5. Can anyone here confirm this? The irony is that I thought the “hardest” part would be learning Premier and performing the capture and edit. I never thought the problem would be on the “output and burning” side. I also wonder, am I missing something? Do already I have some combination of hardware and software that should make this simpler?

[BJ_M]

what do you mean the "adobe avi file"? adobe will create many types of avi files - and if you install different codecs - it will make even more.
I suggest installing huffy codec and rendering your avi in adobe using huffy (lossless codec) - then you can encode using tmpgenc or cce or u-lead ...
if you have the whole avi on you HD -- no need to frame serve it.

alos you can get a mpeg2 encoder plug in for adobe by CCE .. though i never used it .. and render directly to svcd standard.

[s2krazy]

Wow Thanks for the quick reply! I guess since I'm new to this "video stuff" (the DV camera is even borrowed) I'm not describing things clearly. By Adobe.avi, I mean the basic output of the program out of the box with no plugins added. I was not aware there were different types of .avi in the Adobe menu? The entire project is on the hard drive, the 80 gig drive is dedicated to this task only.

In this sceneario, I need to add the huffy plugin to Premier, and then encode the file to "huffy modified" .avi file to MPEG-2 with either tmpgenc or Ulead. Is there any preference to which might produce better picture quality?

Also, what about the add on Nero? If I have the "proper" MPEG-2 file (ie. done through huffy > tmpgenc) will Nero recognize it without the need for a extra cost add on? It seem strange since SVCD is a burning option in the program!!! Why give the option if it's not going to work?

[BJ_M]

that was an uncompressed avi -- which is also reconized of course -- just it often is a large file is all. or perhaps you saved it as something else --

if you already have this avi -- no need to re-render .. use it as is ..

in the future you can use the huffyuv codec if you need a little more room - plus the uncompressed avi out of adobe is limited to 2gig or 4 gig depending what OS and version of adobe you are using ..

to use the huffyuv codec -- you just install it .. no need to tell adobe anything -- it wil just be in options of what type of avi to save.

don't bother about that add-on for nero -- not worth it and not nesessary.

just use tmpgenc mpeg encoder and use the svcd template . nero better reconize it ..

[s2krazy]

I'm posting from my work computer so I'll double check how I was doing it when I get home. However, (I've been working on this pretty late so my memory is 'foggy') I'm pretty certain I selected the only .avi choice that was available to save the finished file. I'm on XP with the NTFS and premier 6.0 so I assume I fall into the 4G category for file size. I've searched the site for references to Huffy, and have found lots of posts, but none that tell me how to get it!

1) I guess I'll try again, and make a note of the error I got in Nero (when trying to burn the Ulead created MPEG-2 version of my .avi)

2) I also try to get tmpgenc to recognize my adobe .avi again. If this works, I only need to make Nero burn the tmpgenc created MPEG-2. If not, I'll see what kind of error message I was getting there to.

I seem to have several paths to take, but the both stop at different places. Thanks for taking the time to point me in a few new directions, now please send me on my Huffy search and I'll try a few things tonight and "call you in the morning..."

[BJ_M]

http://math.berkeley.edu/~benrg/huffyuv.html

official web page

[s2krazy]

Here is an update! I discoverd I was saving the file as a Microsoft DV AVI in the Premier menu. Selecting this "greyed" out most of my options in the advanced screen. For example, you can only choose between PAL and NTSC (naturally I selected NTSC). This form of .avi is not supported for encoding into MPEG-2 by tmpgenc.

Moving to Plan B, I installed the Huffy Codec, selected the regular Microsoft AVI and proceeded to save my .avi following the Export Timeline > Movie > Settings > and from the Video dropdown I chose the huffy v2.1.1 codec. My size settings were 720 x 480 and the 4:3 ratio box was checked. Frame rate is 29.97 and Pixel Aspect Ratio is D1/DV NTSC (0.9). The resulting file was only in black and white, the video was "torn" and displayed at a sever angle. (think of an old tv with the horizontal hold out, while trying to watch a scrambled cable signal)

Plan C was to try variations on the other codecs available. Cinepak produced a choppy picture and blocky streaks in the section where I had slowed down the video. Indeo was the same way. FWIW, selecting "none" as a codec option resulted in video the looked great (as good as the MS DV choice), but played back in 'spurts": FF then pause, FF then pause etc.

The irony is that all these "bad .avi's" are recognized by tmpgenc! Any suggestions would be appreciated

[BJ_M]

go in to the configuration for huffuv ... when you select that codec you will see "configure" box open that and you will be presented a view with 2 lists at the top and some selections in the middle ..

at the top the box on the right is for lossless saving and if you select the bottom option in the right box it points to the left box which means you are selecting lossy ....

now in terms of these settings you can figure out what you want .. all of them produce excellent results which of course as you "move up the list" better even .

the b&w picture you were exper is odd ..... (with tearing to boot!) ..in the Middle part of the huffyuv config box are options for compatability .. mess around why those ..

i use huffyuv all the time w/ speedrazor and on occasion w/ adobe ... never a problem and of course not with tmpegenc or cce.

[s2krazy]

Just an update! I see we've been moved to "advance conversion" by someone... no doubt due you your responses not my questions. 8)

I kind of went "back to the drawing board" and worked with my original DV .avi export from Premier. I modified the file using a small utility (AVIC.EXE) mentioned in another post. The resulting file is read by TMPGEnc and encoding is possible. I have created a MPEG-2 and tried to burn this via Nero 5 as before. Nero does not like this "non compliant file" and brings up a menu that asks if I want to turn off the compliance and proceed, or re-encode. I selected re-encode and nero took a few minutes to do this and then burned the disc. This disc did not play anywhere, but it did have four folders with various .dat files etc.

I suspect the problem may lie in some of the dozens of setting in TMPGEnc, since there are precious few available when you choose the Export Timeline > Microsoft DV, option in Premier. Do I have resolutions set wrong (720 x 480 I think)? I also tried to multiplex the audio as mentined in one of the FAQs but the results are the same.

Any thoughts? I seem to be getting closer in small steps, but the carrot still eludes me I want to thank you again for your patience and assistance.

[BJ_M]

a clue here is two things -- 1. never let nero "re-encode" anything, and 2. you were left with a bunch of "dat" files which indicates somehow you went on a vcd path way (mpeg1) ..

svcd is 480 x 480 mpeg 2 ... so in nero did you select vcd or svcd ? since you wanted mpeg2 you should have selected svcd and when encoding in adv settings (in tmpgenc) you must re-size it to 480 x 480 ... there are other apps for resize as well as you could have done it in adobe -- but non the less tmpgenc will do it just fine ... guides are on this board for exact settings so i will not repeat ... AVIC.EXE i really dont know anything about as i dont like to work with DV compressed files as i dont like the colour trade off and a few other things ..

anyway re-encode to svcd standard (you can just select the svcd template in tmpgenc and all is pretty well set up for you)

and as i said - dont let nero do anything but burning .. you must use a muxed file (audio and video multiplexed together) when you add this file to nero. tmpgenc will do this for you ..

i hope this helps ...

in the future -- re-size in adobe and dont save in DV unless you plan on exporting back to a DV device.

BUT if in the future you may want to create a dvd --- leave the video files at full size in adobe and re-size as you need.

[s2krazy]

Well thanks for the suggestions, it seems like I always have one or two new things to try every evening. I now know that my image size was set wrong in tmpgenc. This I will fix in tonights attempt. As an aside, I am curious about your statement about compressed DV AVI. When I export using the Microsoft DV mode, it does not mention compression. The utility program seemed to modify some part of the file. It involved editing a field and transposing two letters! Thats all it did and tmpgeng was able to read the file. I was amused.

If I resize the AVI output in Adobe prior to using tmpgenc, does this improve quality, or encoding times. Thanks for your help.

[BJ_M]

.......
If I resize the AVI output in Adobe prior to using tmpgenc, does this improve quality, or encoding times. Thanks for your help.

quality -- i really dont think so ... if it does its not really noticable.

the type of re-size method will have a greater impact than which program does it .. only programs such as Digital Fusion or Rayz where you have a lot of control over re-size (as well as everything else) well show much improvment .. and then not by much at ntsc resolutions (64bit color - yes and for film work @ 4k resolution)

yes faster encoding -- it doesnt have to re-size and encode.

[s2krazy]

Took another small step tonight. I managed to save in Tmpgenc file in a 480 x 480 file that was recognized by Nero as a compliant SVCD (no error box this time). However the resulting burn did not play in my toshiba DVD nor on either computer.... again. Now XP did find the video file nested in the MPEG folderand played it through the media player, but the Toshiba DVD showed a "disc error" in the dosplay window. I have 4 folders (MPEG, SVCD, SEGMENT and EXT) but it appears there is no autorun .exe or what ever a SVCD/DVD needs to start. Shouldn't Nero add file this automatically?

Anyway I feel we're getting closer, and with only a few more burn tries, I will complete my new coaster set. :P Should I try another program other than Nero to create my SVCD? What about VCD Easy? Have you tried it?

[mats.hogberg]

I've never had any success with Nero and (S)VCD. In contrast, VCDEasy has never failed me.
Even if the discs look identical, my DVD player refuses to recognize the Nero made CD's as (S)VCD discs, but those made with VCDEasy works without problems.

[BJ_M]

mats.hogberg might have a good idea for your player -- i have some pioneers that dont really care about the disks at all and play anything .. hence ive only used nero for burning svcd other than the built in vcdimager in dvd2svcd ...


there is no autorun or auto play or anything like that ...

[s2krazy]

OK here's today's update. I've stopped getting error messages in Nero, VCDEasy does not like my AOpen CD-RW so I've shelved that project for now. I think the problem may be with the burner itself. A few weeks ago I made a copy of a commercial VCD and this does not play in my stand alone DVD (the originals played). I must be missing something pretty fundamental here. I'm sure the DVD should play the regular VCD format.

I created both SVCD and VCD and gave them to someone else to try in their DVD. Hopefully they will work, and then all I need is a new DVD player. Needless to say, I'm pretty disappointed cause I really want to see what I have on a TV (so I can see what others will see if it's given out later).