HINT: NEVER DO THIS.

[homerpez]

Just a "tip of the week" for anyone creating VCD's, SVCD's to be played on a standalone, for instance the Apex 500W (Which I use)...

AVOID USING CD LABELS AT ALL COSTS!

Once applied to the CD, it can cause problems with playback (intermittent). Whether the labels add weight to the disc, or if they are on slightly crooked, I don't know, but I'm finding this problem with nearly every CD I've slapped a label on.

It's tell-tale sign is when you play it, it starts to scramble in spots (macroblocks EVERYWHERE), but when you RW, and play the same spot again, they'll be gone, or at a different point. This can only be due to the labels.

Head's up!

[aldus4]

The problem you are mentioning sounds more like dust or static problems that anything to do with lables. I've used thousands of lables and never encountered a single problem. (OK - I admit, I did once lable the wrong side DOH!) Wipe the (X/S/V)CD you are using before you put it in your player, use a label kit (presser) and never forget to go over the label (with your fingers or whatever) to firmly stick the label to the cd.

[GeneStarwind]

Don't worry, most decent CDROM, DVDROM, CDRW and DVD players play CDs with labels. If you think about it, CDRs are produced in such mass, that they can't be perfectly balanced, or centered... thats why the rotor has some "leeway". The only problem with labels is if they are really off-centered, or if you are spinning them up at horrendously high speeds.

I personally use labels because they protect the dye on the CDR. If there are scratches on the bottom, you can have it resurfaced, but I learned too late that little bits of dust between CDs can grind away parts of the dye. I recommend CD labels to anyone burning masses of CDRs and who don't have the proper means to store them... (I'm still using spindles hehe)

[vanillabox]

I agree with GeneStarwind. CD labels will give you added protection from the elements to the topside of your disk. Even a small scratch on this side can ruin a disk and really upset you. If you are worried about getting the label on centered just use one of the many tools such as the media stomper.

P.S. If you do it right your disk is not only protected but they look cool. What is the point of doing all the work into making a VCD if your friends just laugh at the sharpie writing on the top.

[Freddie100]

Sounds like your DVD player has the problem. When you load a cd there is a weight which is lowered onto the top of the cd to apply pressure so the cd wont slip. This weight is free floating when the cd is loaded. The label increased the thickness of the cd and when loaded, the weight is hanging up a little bit not allowing the cd to spin freely. This is adjustable. If this weight is free floating after the cd is loaded, then it is a motor problem and it doesn't have enough strength (torgue) to spin the cd properly with the increase weight.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Freddie100 on 2001-08-06 08:44:18 ]</font>

[homerpez]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-08-06 08:41:37, Freddie100 wrote:
Sounds like your DVD player has the problem. When you load a cd there is a weight which is lowered onto the top of the cd to apply pressure so the cd wont slip. This weight is free floating when the cd is loaded. The label increased the thickness of the cd and when loaded, the weight is hanging up a little bit not allowing the cd to spin freely. This is adjustable. If this weight is free floating after the cd is loaded, then it is a motor problem and it doesn't have enough strength (torgue) to spin the cd properly with the increase weight.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Not adjustable for me... I don't know anything about that...

This is why I will never again use labels!

All I know is that my CD's with screen-print on one side work nicely, but after placing a label on them I get problems. So bad, in fact, I have to make copies onto another disc!

Thank God my DVD-Rom in my computer can still read them to get the MPEG's off!

No all of us have the $$$ to waste yanking our standalone's apart, possibly wrecking them, just to adjust something somewhere...

Just offering a good solution to those of us who aren't "Economically Viable"...

[suspect]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-08-05 21:42:49, homerpez wrote:
It's tell-tale sign is when you play it, it starts to scramble in spots (macroblocks EVERYWHERE), but when you RW, and play the same spot again, they'll be gone, or at a different point. This can only be due to the labels.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually it can be due to the cheap POS DVD roms found in the APEX players. I have an AD-660 and I have the same problems with some SVCDs before and after labeling (its intermittant and tolerable). They play fine in every pc cd reader i've used. In some Apexs you'll get lucky and get a decent reader, but in mine a got a dsl (i think thats the company i don't remember) drive. I updated the drive and player firmware but that doesnt help either. I might be wrong, but i'm gonna try connecting my 16x pioneer dvd rom to the apex to be sure.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: suspect on 2001-08-06 09:23:37 ]</font>

[aldus4]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-08-06 08:52:29, homerpez wrote:
Just offering a good solution to those of us who aren't "Economically Viable"...
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

"NEVER USE CD LABELS" is your idea of a good solution? I'm sorry, that's like saying never cross the road cause someone I know got killed!

These days well known CD-Labels work fine and don't cause problems. If 1 in a thousand has this problem, it shouldn't be hyped as "AVOID USING CD LABELS AT ALL COSTS!"

[patrickm]

some apex's do use a cheap drive in them that causes read errors. you can actually swap this drive out for any IDE CD-ROM or DVD-ROM. if you're already taking it apart, you might give using a CD-ROM a try to see if they read your CD-R's correctly.

actually, with my pioneer player (343) i had some similar problems with light green discs burned at 8x and 10x. when i redid them at 4x, they worked fine. blue discs seem to work regardless of the speed.

[homerpez]

I am NOT taking it apart, thank you very much.

I was just trying to help.

I will NOT try to help again.

[vitualis]

homerpez does have a good point, though generalisations should be avoided.

If a drive has no difficultly in reading the discs, a slightly off-set label should make no difference at all.

However, as homerpez has demonstrated on his player (and others have previously posted in the past) some DVD drives baulk at reading a disc with a label. I would assume that the drive had some difficulty reading the disc to begin with and the label was simply the straw that tipped it over the edge.

Regards.

[patrickm]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-08-06 20:39:52, homerpez wrote:
I am NOT taking it apart, thank you very much.

I was just trying to help.

I will NOT try to help again.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

hey, i didn't mean anything personal, i was just throwing out a suggestion in case someone reading this does have a real problem with the drive and would be interested in taking it apart instead of, say, junking the player because it has too many read errors.

[orbit7]

Homerpez. stop sulking this is a forum, This is where opinions about things will differ and all knowledge may be considered as wise to some but not to all. Patrickm and all others have not written nor commented on your personally in any manner way shape or form. so grow up a little please ya sook

[sracer]

As has been mentioned before, it is not the labels that cause VCD playback problems on the Apex, but the quality of the Apex player itself.

Apex players were never known for their playback quality. Their appeal was inexpensive, cheaply made players that played a wider variety of disc formats than other players at the time.

This is just another of the "hidden costs" of purchasing an el cheapo player.

[askanison]

my apex 500a plays fine with all the labels attached.
and i use some sharpie pens to write on the non labeled dvds. so nyaaa...

[juice]

homerpez

Fag !!

[homerpez]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-08-07 16:06:20, juice wrote:
homerpez

Fag !!
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

FYI: It took him 7 hours to come up with this brilliant, intelligent analysis. Even so, there's still a typographical error. He mistyped "J-U-I-C-E" and it came out "H-O-M-E-R-P-E-Z". Someday he'll get it right.

BTW: I'm beginning to think it may be the BRAND of labels I used, not so much the fact I used labels! I never researched it, I admit, but I did get bent out of shape when I get lambasted by everyone!

These labels are particularly heavy (seemed to me), what's more they are made by a popular company of office labels (Avery), but they don't seem right. Really thick paper, don't seem to stick well on the edges. Even when they are straight, they look bad.

There's no danger of them coming off (I tried, and they didn't), but they are nasty labels!

Maybe I should have just asked "What label brands do you guys use? What's the best?"

[aldus4]

@homerpez

Just ignore Juice's remark.

What you said about brand labels is true. I once picked up some cheap labels, which first worked great. It was after about a week that the adhesive layer became un-adhesive - naturally causing major problems.

I have found Neato labels to be good - if you print them on an inkjet however make sure you wait that they are dry before applying them to a CD, otherwise again you could get problems.

[mh2360]

Picture this...

10.30 am - mh2360 recieves his brand new Pioneer DV343.

10.40am - Having set up his new player he is eager to test the disks he burned the previous night. One of the disks is an not-so-old CD-RW with a label, just coming sightly unstuck at the edge, he rubs it to re-stick it.

10.45am - VERY pleased at what he sees he ejects the disk to try another.

10.45am and two seconds - the CD drawer emerges one inch from the player and goes no further.

10.46am mh2360 discovers that the label has stuck to the inside of the front panel of his new player and has got well and truly jammed!

10.48am In 18 minutes mh2360 has has invalidated the warrenty on a brand new DVD player by having to remove the cover on his new player to remove a jammed disk.

Lesson - Use labels at your peril!!!!

[droger]

There is definitely some substance to this:

my experience last nite

burned movie 10x, applied label, movie played fine
no more blue discs left, grabbed a green disc
burned second half of new movie 10x, applied label
unwatchable due to blockiness
bought some more blue discs and reburned at 10x
applied label, movie plays fine

go figure

[aldus4]

@mh2360

If a label has become unstuck at one side - rubbing it won't be a permanent solution - Common sense should have dictacted that! Would be nice to know which brand of label it was as well.

@droger

Would also be nice to hear which brand label you used.

[species8514]

Speaking of cdr labeling..

I saw a printer a few months ago where you could put a CDR in to a little tray and print your picture on to it.

Has anyone else seen this, and do they know who its by and where i could get one from???

[aldus4]

Yes, you can find some info here:
http://www.cd-rmedia.co.uk/cdprinters.htm

Just do a search no the net regarding this printer, I'm sure you'll find it then.

[mh2360]

@aldus4

The labels I used were cheap copies of the Press-It labels.

(I bet I know what you're going to say now!)

[vanillabox]

NeatO by Fellows are the only labels I will use. I have tried others, but the sticky stuff doesn't stand up to the heat of most CD-ROM, DVD-ROM.... that are out on the market. This is especially important when sending cds that contain the Promo Loops for the company I work for to our customers. Could you imagine sending a cd to a client and having it break there DVD player? Not good.

[VidGuy]

I've made hundreds of CDs/SVCDs and used labels on every one and played them on a Pioneer DVD player. I personally use CD-Stomper & CD-Stomper labels. I've tried Avery and I've tried Memory, and to be blunt - they're both crap. Their glue is horrible, they bubble, they peel off, etc.

With CD-Stomper, once the labels on, it's on for good. I hate paying $45.00 for 300 labels, but it's so much better than writing with a pen, because I can put all the info about how I made each one on it and it looks neat.
My Opinion....
-VidGuy

[aldus4]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-08-09 08:57:30, mh2360 wrote:
@aldus4

The labels I used were cheap copies of the Press-It labels.

(I bet I know what you're going to say now!)
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Am I THAT predictable? <grin>

[homerpez]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-08-09 09:30:29, vanillabox wrote:
NeatO by Fellows are the only labels I will use. I have tried others, but the sticky stuff doesn't stand up to the heat of most CD-ROM, DVD-ROM.... that are out on the market.</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

I wonder if this is a small part of my problem, I have to say that since I ran 2 or 3 movies through (all the way through) when I first applied them, so I thought all was well. I put them in now, and I get this problem!

Maybe over time, the heat of the Apex player (and there is HEAT in an Apex player!) imbalances the labels somehow, or makes them stick up along the edges...

I'll try those NeatO labels, if I can find them... are they ar any major chain stores? (I had to go to 2 Wal*Mart's just to find ANY CD labels whatsoever!)

[aldus4]

If you feel a CD after it has been playing for a while in your DVD player you will notice how hot it gets. So I think you can imagine what forces work on the adhesive layer of the label. If you go to Neato's website (you can actually order labels here should your local dealer not have them in stock) they report on how they developed a special adhesive for this exact purpose.
http://www.neato.com/myths.asp

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: aldus4 on 2001-08-09 10:30:41 ]</font>

[gambit32]

@homerpez
Try Office Depot, I believe that's where I bought mine.