Digitizing homemade VHS videos

[tomini]

Hey everyone,

So, I inherited a pile of VHS tapes from my grandpa and finally decided to tackle the task of digitizing them.
Thought I could use the VCR I got with the cassettes - Panasonic NV-HD640, but turns out it might give me worse quality than what's on the cassettes themselves.

Checked out the used market for VHS players and found two options:

• Panasonic NV-FS200 (they're willing to sell it to me for 247€)
• Panasonic NV-HS1000E (367€, haven't haggled yet)

I read somewhere that comparable JVCs are better than the Panasonics in terms of output quality, but I hope that is nitpicking or false as I was not very successful finding those for affordable price.

I'm in Europe, and I read here the NV-FS200 is the same as the AG-1980P (AG-1980). Is 247€ a good deal for the NV-FS200? The seller says he's not the first owner, but the previous guy took good care of it (kept it in a dry, room-temperature spot and stuff like that). Only thing is that the remote is missing.

Now, onto the recording part. I was thinking of getting an Elgato card (or something similar) for that. Problem is, these cards usually have HDMI or DisplayPort inputs. How do I convert S-Video (supposedly the best output) to these newer standards? OSSC, maybe? But that's gonna nibble away at the budget.
I forgot to mention that I own a DVDO Edge, if that helps... I got it for retro gaming.

Dad was keen on covering the costs, given it's mainly his nostalgia, but explaining that it's not a simple 150€ deal, more like over 400€, was a bit of a challenge. Came across a Linus Tech Tips video (https://youtu.be/foLPX4YTwHk), and they were using some pretty high-end converters with a hefty price tag. If that's a must-have, then it looks like I've hit a dead end here.

Thanks a lot!

[dellsam34]

That SDI device in that video relies heavily on the Panasonic VCR ability to fix timing errors via its internal line/field TBC, It will not probably work without problems with a basic composite VCR, So having a good VCR will give you the flexibility to choose the capture device at a much lower cost.

[tomini]

I forgot to mention that I own a DVDO Edge, if that helps... I got it for retro gaming.
And the VCR I got with the cassettes is Panasonic NV-HD640.

That SDI device in that video relies heavily on the Panasonic VCR's ability to fix timing errors via its internal line/field TBC

As I mentioned in my original post, those devices seem pretty pricey, so I'm really hoping I can get away without needing them.

It will probably not work without problems with a basic composite VCR, so having a good VCR will give you the flexibility to choose the capture device at a much lower cost.

I already mentioned the two VCRs I found, and they aren't basic ones. While flexibility is great, I'm still in the dark about any good capture devices. I brought up Elgato cards, but I didn't get a response on whether they would do the job. Plus, I'd still need something to convert S-Video (or another output) to HDMI.

[Bwaak]

Why do you want HDMI or SDI? USB is good enough.

The Linus Tech Tips video is so cringeworthy, they've got almost everything wrong. Why SDI? Why OBS? "I've already processed it, deinterlacing and stuff", aha, right. "This is what the heads do, not like on a cheap single-head VCRs" The Technology Connection guy is slightly better, although his approach is not optimal either. May I suggest a different video: https://youtu.be/XzY1Vo1occc It does not mention TBC, the camcorder has a built-in one, the VCR does not. At least it explains how to get rid of combing, how to adjust aspect ratio, and how to ensure that Youtube plays your video at full 50 or 60 fps. You can buy a decent Diamond VC500 dongle for around $35 in the US, there are a couple of other sib-$100 options.

I would not pay 250, let alone 400 euros for a VCR. I'd rather look for a Digital8 camcorder with a built-in TBC and a passthrough mode, or for a DVD recorder with similar functionality.

[tomini]

Why do you want HDMI or SDI? USB is good enough.

It's not that I specifically want it; I'm just more familiar with HDMI capture cards. If you have recommendations for USB ones, feel free to share. SDI is off the table as I've made it clear I don't want to spend that much just for conversion.

The Linus Tech Tips video is so cringeworthy, they've got almost everything wrong. Why SDI? Why OBS? "I've already processed it, deinterlacing and stuff," aha, right. "This is what the heads do, not like on cheap single-head VCRs" The Technology Connection guy is slightly better, although his approach is not optimal either.

Any idea why they chose that route? I saw potential in the HDMI card as it could serve more than one purpose, but I'm not dead set on going that way.

May I suggest a different video: https://youtu.be/XzY1Vo1occc It does not mention TBC; the camcorder has a built-in one, the VCR does not. At least it explains how to get rid of combing, adjust aspect ratio, and ensure that YouTube plays your video at full 50 or 60 fps.

Thanks, I'll check it out. I'm mainly interested in VCR-specific stuff and quirks. I think I've got the general encoding knowledge down.

You can buy a decent Diamond VC500 dongle for around $35 in the US; there are a couple of other sub-$100 options.

I'm in Europe, so if you have specific options for my region, that'd be great. I found a SILVERCREST® USB Video Grabber SVG 2.0 A3 lying around. Is it adequate?

I would not pay 250, let alone 400 euros for a VCR. I'd rather look for a Digital8 camcorder with a built-in TBC and a passthrough mode, or for a DVD recorder with similar functionality.

Whoa, whoa, whoa... All the guides told me to get a decent VCR from JVC or Panasonic. It would really help if you could explain why I should go with X or Y so I don't blindly follow. My father will be chipping in at the very least, so it'd be polite to give him a reason for the choices.
Also, aren't Digital8 cassettes smaller? What use will that have?
DVD recorder? That's a completely different medium. Or do you mean for capturing/passthrough to PC? I'll still need a decent VCR then...

[Bwaak]

It's not that I specifically want it; I'm just more familiar with HDMI capture cards. If you have recommendations for USB ones, feel free to share. SDI is off the table as I've made it clear I don't want to spend that much just for conversion.

I don't have recommendations, but others do, search some recent threads. Diamond VC500 is £30, and it is decent. Drivers are somewhat unstable though. Dazzle DVC100 is cheap to buy used, reliable, but the video is a bit soft. Neither dongle has TBC-like functionality. Don't buy a no-name Chinese dongle.

Any idea why they chose that route?

No idea about Linus. The Tech Connections guy wanted a simple box without using a computer, and for this purpose his device works. There are better boxes that do not change levels and preserve aspect ratio, but AFAIK they all upscale to HD. If you don't mind a decent-looking 720p50 or 1080p50, then it is an option.

Whoa, whoa, whoa... All the guides told me to get a decent VCR from JVC or Panasonic. It would really help if you could explain why I should go with X or Y so I don't blindly follow.

The best VCR is the one that works, in good condition. You probably want SVHS, SP/LP/EP compatibility, Hi-Fi, built-in TBC is a plus.

Also, aren't Digital8 cassettes smaller? What use will that have?

Passthrough from Svideo to DV while engaging built-in TBC. Not everyone on this forum likes DV for analog video

DVD recorder? That's a completely different medium. Or do you mean for capturing/passthrough to PC? I'll still need a decent VCR then...

Yes, passthrough from SVideo to Svideo or to HDMI.

[dellsam34]

Why SDI?

To answer this question you have to specify which capture device we are talking about here, If we are talking about Black Magic analog to SDI converters like the one shown in the link above, then yes, Why those? They are just basic converters. But if we are talking about a full fledged capture device with all the necessary processing and signal correction, then I can name few reasons:

- They are more stable than consumer products in the sense that they don't need the computer CPU or drivers, because they are built in FPGA for all signal processing, The digital SDI out can be interfaced with computer for transferring the digitized signal to HDD in different ways, USB3, PCIe, Thunderbolt and works with all OS's, It can also be used with an SDI recorder to avoid a computer entirely.

- They cover a wide variety of tape conditions and can correct those errors to a certain extent, Unlike a consumer product that relies on the line TBC in the VCR, an external frame TBC for certain defects and sometimes even a DVD recorder for tearing and other artifacts.

- They don't convert back to analog like consumer devices when used with an external TBC or a DVD recorder, and that saves some quality loss.

- Since they output SDI, audio is already locked to the video in the digital domain.

- Since they don't rely on the CPU, you can do other tasks and capture at the same time.

[tomini]

AFAIK they all upscale to HD. If you don't mind a decent-looking 720p50 or 1080p50, then it is an option.

Unfortunately, I do mind. I want to get the raw output from the cassettes for backup, and I plan to run filters and fix up everything later, possibly even upscale it. Tech Connections' solution seems good enough for most folks, but I see two boxes that you have very little control over, and I don't know its inner workings.

You probably want SVHS, SP/LP/EP compatibility, Hi-Fi, built-in TBC is a plus.

The Panasonic NV-FS200 seems to check all the boxes except for EP tapes.

Passthrough from S-video to DV while engaging built-in TBC. Not everyone on this forum likes DV for analog video

So the camcorder would work here as a converter? Wouldn't it affect the quality? I'm asking because the VCR plays a big role in the picture quality, so putting a bad part into the middle of the chain could make it all meaningless.

passthrough from S-Video to S-Video or to HDMI.

Is that a typo? Why would I convert S-Video to S-Video?
So...

1. good VCR (I found one, but you mentioned that I might be overpaying...though, eBay seems to offer even less favorable deals)
2. camcorder/DVD to convert to modern output
3. Diamond VC500 (or other USB card)

As I mentioned, I own DVDO Edge if that helps...

They are just basic converters...

Thanks a lot for this explanation. So it's specialized and does have only one purpose, but that purpose it does flawlessly. I am trying to find a middle ground between the LTT and the Technology Connection videos - in one they used an expensive option (for me counting it all together), and in the other, he used a method that seems to be plug'n'play but lacks any control over it.

[dellsam34]

I would avoid HDMI route, Too many things that can go wrong, Aspect ratio, cropping, chroma and luma levels, wrong de-interlacing ...etc.
As I said, since you have a good VCR to start with, most of your problems are taken care of already, Just look up some recent threads about the best USB capture device and you will end up with basically two popular choices, Diamond VC500 or GV-USB2, I bet even Elgato would work in your case but they are little pricey for whatever reason.

[tomini]

As I said, since you have a good VCR to start with, most of your problems are taken care of already

Which one are you referring to? The one I currently have at home is the Panasonic NV-HD640. I was also considering buying the Panasonic NV-FS200 for 247€.
However, Bwaak said, "I would not pay 250, let alone 400 euros for a VCR. I'd rather look for a Digital8 camcorder with a built-in TBC and a passthrough mode, or for a DVD recorder with similar functionality." I still don't get how looking for a camcorder instead relates, as I would still need a VCR better than the one I have at home, right?

Just look up some recent threads about the best USB capture device, and you'll likely end up with two popular choices: Diamond VC500 or GV-USB2. I bet even Elgato would work in your case, but they are a little pricey for whatever reason.

You're paying for the support and software with Elgato. While they're great, if they can potentially impact the final result, I'll go with the ones you recommend or might find on the forum.

[dellsam34]

Don't tie your budget to other peoples needs/priorities, The rule of thumb is always a S-VHS VCR with built in TBC is the best option regardless what someone else thinks, If you use a composite VCR (no matter how high end is), the quality will get a hit, assuming the tapes are important to you. Now I don't know what VCR you have or what you are getting, haven't looked up those models, I know such VCR's are close to $1000 in good working condition, so if you can find one that fits my top description for $400 that's a good deal, $250 is a steal based on the current market.

[tomini]

Now I don't know what VCR you have or what you are getting, haven't looked up those models, I know such VCR's are close to $1000 in good working condition, so if you can find one that fits my top description for $400 that's a good deal, $250 is a steal based on the current market.

I read here that the NV-FS200 is the PAL version of the AG-1980P (AG-1980), which, from what I gathered, is somewhat famous for its availability and price.

Bwaak laid out like a 101 what to look for when choosing a VCR: "You probably want SVHS, SP/LP/EP compatibility, Hi-Fi, built-in TBC is a plus."
Sadly, I cannot find anything about EP compatibility for the NV-FS200. I read somewhere that EP/SLP was released into the NTSC market, which might be why I can't find anything about it, as this VCR is in the PAL region.

Another thing I found is Panasonic vs JVC - "JVC equipment does have a more accurate picture. Panasonic oversharpens." Is that true?

Here are both the VCRs I found used:

• Panasonic NV-FS200 (haggled down to 247€) [link]
• Panasonic NV-HS1000E (367€, haven't haggled yet) [link]

[Bwaak]

Please, disregard my comment regarding VCR above. Also, it looks like PAL VHS is different from NTSC VHS that EP aka SLP was rarely offered. For NTSC the situation is different: AFAIK EP was easier to implement than LP, because it did not require extra heads.

[tomini]

Please, disregard my comment regarding VCR above. Also, it looks like PAL VHS is different from NTSC VHS that EP aka SLP was rarely offered. For NTSC the situation is different: AFAIK EP was easier to implement than LP, because it did not require extra heads.

So, should I snatch the Panasonic NV-FS200 or try to find a good JVC somewhere?
For some reason, those Panasonics are easier to find here.

[Bogilein]

The Panasonic NV-HD640 dates back to 1999 and is a normal video recorder with Scart (composite) output.

The Panasonic FS200 dates from 1992 and the HS1000 from 1994. These two devices were often the most frequently recommended Panasonic devices when it came to video capture.
Due to their age, it may be difficult to find working devices on the second-hand market that have not already been played to death and passed through many hands.
I would never buy such a device without a remote control and operating instructions. If this is missing, it is an indication that you are not buying the device from 1st hand. If you do, it's best to buy it from someone who offers a guarantee with the option of returning it.

If I were you, I would first try the HD640 in conjunction with one of the recommended DVD recorders in passthrough mode and a capture card.
(The DVD recorder provides a stable picture and ensures straight lines).

If WIN10/11 is used for capturing, the Hauppauge USB2 Live, I-O Data GV-USB2 & Pinnacle 500/510/700/710 have proven themselves, as you can read from various users here in the forum.

Recommended DVD recorder + Hauppauge cost less than 50 euros here in Germany, for example.

If you are not satisfied with the quality, you can always upgrade.

Here is an overview of all JVC & Panasonic SVHS Recorders which has been released in Germany:
https://gleitz.info/forum/index.php?thread/48526-%C3%BCbersicht-%C3%BCber-alle-jvc-pan...r-deutschland/

[tomini]

The Panasonic FS200 dates from 1992 and the HS1000 from 1994. These two devices were often the most frequently recommended Panasonic devices when it came to video capture.
Due to their age, it may be difficult to find working devices on the second-hand market that have not already been played to death and passed through many hands.
I would never buy such a device without a remote control and operating instructions. If this is missing, it is an indication that you are not buying the device from 1st hand. If you do, it's best to buy it from someone who offers a guarantee with the option of returning it.

The seller says he's not the first owner, but the previous guy took good care of it (kept it in a dry, room-temperature spot and stuff like that).
Otherwise the seller had an ad offering VHS digitizing.

If I were you, I would first try the HD640 in conjunction with one of the recommended DVD recorders in passthrough mode and a capture card.
(The DVD recorder provides a stable picture and ensures straight lines).

Can you please point me to the recommended DVD recorders?

If WIN10/11 is used for capturing, the Hauppauge USB2 Live, I-O Data GV-USB2 & Pinnacle 500/510/700/710 have proven themselves, as you can read from various users here in the forum.

Thank you so much for being specific. I will write those down.

Recommended DVD recorder + Hauppauge cost less than 50 euros here in Germany, for example.

That is more than ideal! We played two cassettes with the HD640 and they looked fine... But there was some tearing/artifacts/glitches here and there. No idea if TBC or just better VCR can fix it.

If you are not satisfied with the quality, you can always upgrade.

Of course, however seeing the difference on my own eyes would help I guess.

Here is an overview of all JVC & Panasonic SVHS Recorders which has been released in Germany:
https://gleitz.info/forum/index.php?thread/48526-%C3%BCbersicht-%C3%BCber-alle-jvc-pan...r-deutschland/

Thank you

[Alwyn]

If WIN10/11 is used for capturing, the Hauppauge USB2 Live, I-O Data GV-USB2 & Pinnacle 500/510/700/710 have proven themselves

The Pinnacle 710-USB doesn't work for me under Win 10 or 11 for analogue capture; I get an error message from AmarecTV.

[tomini]

If WIN10/11 is used for capturing, the Hauppauge USB2 Live, I-O Data GV-USB2 & Pinnacle 500/510/700/710 have proven themselves

The Pinnacle 710-USB doesn't work for me under Win 10 or 11 for analogue capture; I get an error message from AmarecTV.

Really?
I just found a "Pinnacle Studio MovieBox Plus USB" for 10€. It seems to be the 710...

[dellsam34]

I would get it and try, The legacy Pinnacle devices struggle with lack of drivers, Even if you manage to get them to work you still need the "crossbar thing" utility to switch inputs.

[Alwyn]

I just found a "Pinnacle Studio MovieBox Plus USB" for 10€. It seems to be the 710...

Worth a shot. I haven't seen them on Ebay for less than US$100.