For handheld shaky home movies, 1080 30i, 1080 30p, or 1080 60p?

[MisterF]

For shooting hand held home movies which will be shaky and have rapid camera movement, would I be better off shooting at: 1080 30i, 1080 30p, or 1080 60p (for US/NTSC)? I was looking at online test footage of MP4/AVCHD memory card based camcoders I'm considering. The 1080 30p footage looked jerky/annoying during rapid camera movement. While the footage from my ancient DV camera (480 30i) does not have this problem when viewed on the same computer/monitor. The 1080 60p online test footage from the same camera series as the 1080 30p test footage did not seem to have the jerky problem either.

Generally speaking, would 1080 30i produce smoother video on these types of vids with rapid camera movement vs 1080 30p (all else being equal)? I prob won't be uploading these to websites. However, I would need the videos to be played on a variety of TVs without re-encoding, and would need a hardware player than can play from the SDHC memory card. (Since the cameras don't have a remote for playback.) Such player must also be able to down convert during playback to 480i through component for just some of the TVs (CRTs). Would this downconversion likely turn out worse if a 1080 30i vid is downconverted during playback by a hardware media player vs 1080 30p being downconverted?

As for the 1080 60p option, for my needs I have to be able to watch the videos on TVs without re-encoding/converting first. It is my understanding that very few things outside of the cameras themselves and computers can even play 1080 60p. Is this correct? The SDHC card hardware media players I looked at don't support 1080 60p. (I would need a player to watch these on the TV, since the cameras don't have a playback remote.) So would 1080 60p be a bad choice for my needs? Or do all 1080p TVs accept 1080 60p? And are there hardware SDHC card media players that would play it (as well as downconvert during playback for TVs which are less than 1080p)?

I guess another option is 720 60p, which is supported by all high def TVs/playback equipment, is that correct? But the only camcorders I've seen that can do this (and at decent bitrates) are expensive semi-pro or pro models. The home user cameras I've seen can't, except for either at very low quality bitrates or maybe on some crappy/very low end cameras. Where there any 720 60p memory card cameras that were decent and not expensive?

So which sounds best for my needs, 1080 30i, 1080 30p, 1080 60p, or 720 60p? (Note: Using a tripod or having non-rapid/non shaky camera work is not really an option in my case.)

[Sharc]

30i and 60p have the same temporal resolution (60 pictures per second, either as 60 progressive frames or 60 interlaced fields).
As you mention, 1080p60 may not be compatible with the player / TV, while 720p60 is more widely supported. So use 1080i30 or 720p60 for equal (and highest) temporal resolution.
If your player/TV has a poor deinterlacer 720p60 may look better than 1080i30. If neither fits, use 1080p30 (and hold your breath while shooting).
Some cameras have stabilizers. Check it out in the settings menu. Shaky videos can also be stabilized in postprocessing (Avisynth, NLEs... )

[_Al_]

In my opinion, to pick up a camera, camcorder based on device you currently have for viewing is not good. I'd definitely record 1080p60 with not that cheap camcorder.

Get something like this, or similar: Sony CX 405, something you can put into your pocket, so you have it on you at all times like a phone is used. It is necessary for usable zoom and steady shot (as oppose to phones). Use some SDHC adapter that loads micro SD. I shoot 1080p60 with it, its m2ts format.

[Bwaak]

For shooting hand held home movies which will be shaky and have rapid camera movement

How about minimizing the shakiness and rapid camera movement? Otherwise your home movies will be unwatchable, even for you. Twenty years ago I would recommend a CCD-based camcorder as CCD has global shutter, but today they don't make these. There are some newer CMOS-based camcorders with global shutter, but so far they are rare and expensive. Turn image stabilization on and don't bump the camcorder.

would I be better off shooting at: 1080 30i, 1080 30p, or 1080 60p (for US/NTSC)?

30i and 60p are the same motion-wise after you correctly deinterlace 30i. 30p has twice fewer frames per second, which may exhibit stutter when panning. All the usual moviemaking techniques like slow panning, slow shutter speed, shallow DOF with blurred background while keeping the foreground subject in focus - are applicable. OTOH, smartphones and Youtube made 30p more tolerable. Rolling shutter effects are more pronounced at slower frame rates all things being equal.

As for the 1080 60p option, for my needs I have to be able to watch the videos on TVs without re-encoding/converting first. It is my understanding that very few things outside of the cameras themselves and computers can even play 1080 60p. Is this correct?

Modern Blu-ray players can play 1080p60, while 720p60 has been a broadcast standard since the late 1990s.

So which sounds best for my needs, 1080 30i, 1080 30p, 1080 60p, or 720 60p? (Note: Using a tripod or having non-rapid/non shaky camera work is not really an option in my case.)

4K60p, then downscale and/or downrate to your liking. If not, then 1080p60 is the next best.

Ultimately, I would not try to shoot in a format that you can play directly - no one will watch this, even you. You will NEED to edit. And when you edit, you can render to whatever platform you need.

1080p60 is more versatile than 1080p30 as you can make the latter out of the former, but you need to decide on the shutter speed to avoid too much stutter. 1/60 is the nice common ground, unless you want to shoot high-speed sports and then slow-mo it, in this case you will need to increase shutter speed to, say, 1/250-1/500. Too high shutter speed will make the video stutter even at 60p. Invest into a neutral density filter or buy a camcorder that has one built-in.

[jagabo]

It is my understanding that very few things outside of the cameras themselves and computers can even play 1080 60p. Is this correct?

Almost all modern devices can play 1080p60 and almost all modern TVs accept 1080p60 as input and display 1080p60 on-screen. In fact, most can play/display 4Kp60 AVC and HEVC. Even US$20 media players from Walmart can play them all.

And converting 1080p60 to 1080i30 is much simpler than the reverse. I don't see any reason to shoot interlaced video anymore.

[Sharc]

1080p60 is perfectly fine, but many not-so-old TVs (e.g. from the last 3D hype aera) are limited to (AVCHD) Level 4.1 (max.) which would refuse to play 1080p60, but accept 1080i30 or 720p60 and below only, and one may not want to add extra devices and cabling or apply additional processing and conversions. Many users do not even want to edit their takes but rather just play it as is, and the value and interest for the videos often resurrect some decades later only (memories).
On the other hand videocams can usually record in various formats, so I would just check the options and clarify playback compatibility.
A good option - if this exists (?) - would be a videocam which records as 1080p60 and outputs optionally as 1080i30 for a wider compatibility.

Edit:
The specs/datasheets are sometimes confusing:
1080i30 = 30 interlaced frames per second = 60 fields per second
1080 60i = 60 fields per second = 30 interlaced frames per second
Both mean the same.

[4kblurayguru]

I was looking at online test footage

Test footage are always crap because it's always compressed.

The 1080 30p footage looked jerky/annoying during rapid camera movement

never shoot 30fps progressive video

1080 30i, 1080 30p, or 1080 60p (for US/NTSC)

it's ATSC now, ntsc is SD 480i but the masses just call it HD

I would need the videos to be played on a variety of TVs
Such player must also be able to down convert during playback to 480i through component for just some of the TVs (CRTs)

daptive bitrate streaming or DVD for SD TV and blu-ray for HDTV. There is no one size fits all solution anymore.

I guess another option is 720 60p, which is supported by all high def TVs/playback equipment, is that correct? But the only camcorders I've seen that can do this (and at decent bitrates) are expensive semi-pro or pro models.

shoot 1080p60 then you can down convert in post.