and just what compression will you let me use?

[armyofquad]

I am surrounded by incompetence, and it keeps wasting my time.

I've had to buy 4 VCRs off of eBay, because no one knows how to test a damn thing, or how to move a box from point A to point B without dropkicking it on or off a truck.

I've had to start setting up a new workstation from scratch, because ASUS can't figure out how to manufacture a motherboard that doesn't break down when you need to actually use it, and even if it did have a warranty still, I wouldn't dare try to submit an RMA, as that won't happen without Maurice's approval, and he's always 2 weeks behind on his work.

Workstation 2 setup - has a soundblaster audigy 2 sz card with front faceplate in the tower. However, nothing wants to even acknowledge any sound inputs on that card beyond a microphone input. So, no sound for you.

Since I'm not doing silent movies, I threw another sound card in the tower. I had an unopened ATI USB 600 kicking around, so I set that up, got that working. Great - high quality video and sound, off a VCR that works when I open it up and move some parts into place when loading a tape. Now - lets get back to work.

And then the damn USB breaks down just as I'm starting another capture.

Ugh....ok.....lets decipher these cryptic instructions and figure out these outdated dead links to see if I can make the startech capture device work adequately.

So I sort that out. And I get an error that a .dll file is missing.

Idiots......if you're going to copy and paste instructions, make sure they're complete, and make sure they work.

While I sort that out, I figure - well - lets see that capture I got yesterday before workstation 1 broke down.

Captured it using lagarith for lossless compression. And.....VEGAS WON'T IMPORT IT, BECAUSE OF COURSE IT WON'T, BECUASE IT NEVER DOES A DAMN THING I WANT IT TO DO!!!!!!

I know I installed this code. Run the installer again. Vegas STILL WON'T IMPORT IT!!!!!

Google around - not seeing anything that suggests Vegas can't handle this.

And why am I even using Lagarith? Because at some point huffyuv stopped showing up in the list of compressions in virtualdub even though I've installed it, double checked, triple checked, tried multiple versions, tried both 32 and 64 versions of virtualdub......but no, virtualdub won't acknowledge huffyuv anymore.




PLEASE.....FOR THE LOVE OF ALMIGHTY......CAN SOMEONE JUST MAKE 1, JUST 1 ******* THING, THAT ACTUALLY DOES WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO DO!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?


I am surrounded by idiots..... Sick and tired of having to clean up everyone else's mess, and rig up a bunch of half assed stuff to make it actually do something.....

[poisondeathray]

Captured it using lagarith for lossless compression. And.....VEGAS WON'T IMPORT IT, BECAUSE OF COURSE IT WON'T, BECUASE IT NEVER DOES A DAMN THING I WANT IT TO DO!!!!!!

I know I installed this code. Run the installer again. Vegas STILL WON'T IMPORT IT!!!!!

Did you install lagarith as administrator? It writes a .dll in the System32 directory for x64 OS - you need elevated permission

Confirm that you have 2 lagariths in vdub2 x64, otherwise you didn't install it correctly. One version is bundled with vdub2 - vegas cannot use that to decode. One is forcc "LAGS" - that's the bundled one. If you click on the other one in the compression list, it should report fourcc "lags" and the driver name is "lagarith.dll" - the latter is the one vegas can use to decode (and encode)

[lordsmurf]

Startech capture devices are lacking. The ATI 600 USB was a good upgrade.

eBay is the wrong place to buy quality deck, as most sellers are incompetent buffoons that think seeing lights is "tested" and "working", and they pack a box like it's junk they're setting out to the street. You are dealing with idiots, but part of it is the venue known for idiots. You weren't buying quality AV gear, you were buying crap somebody found at an estate sale.

You also lack TBCs here.

For Huffyuv installer, see this:
https://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/video-web/12376-huffyuv-installed-win10.html#post81619
then
https://github.com/hofmand/video-codec-installers

[armyofquad]

Yes, the more I use the startech after the ati broke down, the more I hate it. Although I dare not try getting that ati to work in Windows 10.

Somewhere in my boxes of crap I might have another ATI usb, I bought 2 of them dirt cheap on woot long ago - this was the backup one that I happened to trip over when looking for something else.

I managed to get huffyuv working. The actual website gives a zip file with a file to right click and select install. Further digging found 2 .msi files that won't install because you don't have admin rights - nevermind I own the machine and am a local admin on it. But Microsoft doesn't want you to be allowed to do anything on your equipment that you paid for yourself. Luckily I know how to get around that - cmd prompted opened as administrator, run msiexec from there. So now I have huffyuv back.

I ordered another recommended USB device from amazon that someone on the internet said plays nice with Windows 10. I-O data GV usb 2. I read it on the internet, so it must be true...

Also found a barely tested to get into bios mobo replacement for the XP machine, so hopefully I get get the ati agp all in wonder back in business at some point.

Meanwhile - turns out my brother recorded over 80s friday night videos with 90s wrestling. I think of all those star trek and james bond VHS tapes recorded off of TV that no one ever watched and got discarded - why not one of those? Well, for all I know, those were all recorded over before being discarded. Ah well - FNV popped back in after the match just in time for some Human League. So there's that.

Of course, I still have a capture that is encoded in some broken lagarith that will play in vlc but not let me seek, but not import into Vegas - any options to convert that to another lossless format?

[Alwyn]

I still have a capture that is encoded in some broken lagarith that will play in vlc but not let me seek, but not import into Vegas - any options to convert that to another lossless format?

Virtual Dub will convert lossless to lossless, just pick a codec that will work with Vegas.

[Alwyn]

I ordered another recommended USB device from amazon that someone on the internet said plays nice with Windows 10. I-O data GV usb 2. I read it on the internet, so it must be true...

I know you'll have a meltdown over this, but the install instructions are in Japanese!
.
.
.
.
All is not lost though, here's an English guide:

https://iotku.pw/gvusb2-guide/

[armyofquad]

I ordered another recommended USB device from amazon that someone on the internet said plays nice with Windows 10. I-O data GV usb 2. I read it on the internet, so it must be true...

I know you'll have a meltdown over this, but the install instructions are in Japanese!
.
.
.
.
All is not lost though, here's an English guide:

https://iotku.pw/gvusb2-guide/

I owe you a coke.

[armyofquad]

used virtualdub to convert the capture I have to huffyuv, and Vegas still won't import it!

I have both 32 and 64 bit versions of the codecs installed. There's no reason for Vegas to ignore this!

Sick and tired of Vegas never doing a damn thing it is supposed to.

What will work?

[Barrythecrab]

Try MagicYUV. There is a free version, and a Vegas plugin.

[poisondeathray]

used virtualdub to convert the capture I have to huffyuv, and Vegas still won't import it!

I have both 32 and 64 bit versions of the codecs installed. There's no reason for Vegas to ignore this!

Sick and tired of Vegas never doing a damn thing it is supposed to.

What will work?

Correctly installed ? e.g. Does huffyuv show up in vegas' export options under AVI ?


If you re-import the converted file back into vdub, what does file=>file information say ? Can you seek in vdub correctly ?

[armyofquad]

used virtualdub to convert the capture I have to huffyuv, and Vegas still won't import it!

I have both 32 and 64 bit versions of the codecs installed. There's no reason for Vegas to ignore this!

Sick and tired of Vegas never doing a damn thing it is supposed to.

What will work?

Correctly installed ? e.g. Does huffyuv show up in vegas' export options under AVI ?


If you re-import the converted file back into vdub, what does file=>file information say ? Can you seek in vdub correctly ?

Correctly installed - ie - following any instructions I can find online.

If you go and download huffyuv right now from here, https://www.videohelp.com/software/HuffYUV, you get 2 useless zip files that do nothing as far as I can tell. The x86 download at least contains a readme file, with instructions to right click the .inf file and select install. The x64 file doesn't include the readme. Which - may as well not include it, as it doesn't do anything anyways.

So, since at the time my problem was an inability to even use it to compress in virtualdub, I moved on to google searching about huffyuv not showing up in virtualdub, and landed on this thread: https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-capture/12892-virtualdub-recognising-huffyuv.html

This thread included 2 zip files from lordsmurf, each of which includes an .msi installer, for 64 and for x86. Running these installers resulted in an error that it requires admin rights - odd since I am a local admin on my machine. But - it seems everyone wants to make sure that not even the owners of the devices are allowed to do anything with them anymore. msi files don't have the option to run as administrator when right clicking. So I had to resort to opening a command prompt by right clicking and selecting run as administrator, and from the command prompt run the .msi files using msiexec. This did the trick, both installers completed, if I go to the add/remove programs I now see them present as installed applications, and now if I open virtualdub, I have an option to compress with huffyuv. But - only in the x86 virtualdub, the 64 bit virtualdub still shows nothing.

So, clearly something worked, and is installed, as now I can compress to huffyuv.

But - Vegas won't have it!

To answer your question about export - do you mean render? No - there's no option in Vegas to render in huffyuv, which is consistent with Vegas not acknowledging the install that has completed, and the codec that exists, and that virtualdub can see and use.

I have an image of the virtualdub file information - but the upload image button on this site seems to be for decoration at this time.


[Attachment 72324 - Click to enlarge]

There we go - got it uploaded by editing the post.

[poisondeathray]

now if I open virtualdub, I have an option to compress with huffyuv. But - only in the x86 virtualdub, the 64 bit virtualdub still shows nothing.

To answer your question about export - do you mean render? No - there's no option in Vegas to render in huffyuv, which is consistent with Vegas not acknowledging the install that has completed, and the codec that exists, and that virtualdub can see and use.

So x64 huffyuv is not installed correctly if 64 bit vdub show nothing, vegas show no option either. That's consistent and tells you the answer as to what is wrong

If vegas is x64, huffyuv won't import, because huffyuv x64 is not installed correctly. Same with x64 lagarith , same with x64 xyz codec etc... All the VFW codecs work like that . In order for something to work in x64 vegas, you need the x64 version of the codec installed correctly

[armyofquad]

now if I open virtualdub, I have an option to compress with huffyuv. But - only in the x86 virtualdub, the 64 bit virtualdub still shows nothing.

To answer your question about export - do you mean render? No - there's no option in Vegas to render in huffyuv, which is consistent with Vegas not acknowledging the install that has completed, and the codec that exists, and that virtualdub can see and use.

So x64 huffyuv is not installed correctly if 64 bit vdub show nothing, vegas show no option either. That's consistent and tells you the answer as to what is wrong

If vegas is x64, huffyuv won't import, because huffyuv x64 is not installed correctly. Same with x64 lagarith , same with x64 xyz codec etc... All the VFW codecs work like that . In order for something to work in x64 vegas, you need the x64 version of the codec installed correctly

But I've installed the x64 version, with the same x64 installers provided alongside x86 installers, with the same method, having them show up in the add/remove programs.

What further sacrifices must I make to the Sony Gods to appease them to recognize and use the software I have installed?

[poisondeathray]

But I've installed the x64 version, with the same x64 installers provided alongside x86 installers, with the same method, having them show up in the add/remove programs.

What further sacrifices must I make to the Sony Gods to appease them to recognize and use the software I have installed?

It has nothing to do with Sony (It's fun to blame them, I do too often, but this case it's not their fault) . The codecs do not show up in vdub x64 either, correct ? So that indicates it's an x64 install issue

Huffyuv install can be a bit tricky , but Lagarith official installer should install both x86 and x64 versions if you install as administrator . I've never tried that github method, there are older posts that detail how to install x64 VFW codecs step by step, not sure where they are , you have to search

[armyofquad]

I did a 3rd install using the right click install method from the installer provided on the videohelp link, it asked about overwriting the dll, I said yes, now Sony imports my capture.

Not sure why the past install attempts didn't take. But, anyways, now I can get back to figuring out how to get a VHS capture workstation setup.

Thanks for the assistance poisondeathray. I owe you a coke.

[poisondeathray]

Another issue you should be aware of with those "lossless" YUV codecs, is they clip overbrights/darks in Vegas. They are not lossless in vegas (or Windows NLE's, not just a "Sony" or "Magix" issue). If you adjust to "legal" levels beforehand, the more easily visible major damage can be avoided, but they are still not lossless eitherway

For 8bit422 Uncompressed in UYVY fourcc format works, or vapoursynth AVFS with "UYVY" emulation works too

[armyofquad]

Another issue you should be aware of with those "lossless" YUV codecs, is they clip overbrights/darks in Vegas. They are not lossless in vegas (or Windows NLE's, not just a "Sony" or "Magix" issue). If you adjust to "legal" levels beforehand, the more easily visible major damage can be avoided, but they are still not lossless eitherway

For 8bit422 Uncompressed in UYVY fourcc format works, or vapoursynth AVFS with "UYVY" emulation works too

Not sure what you're suggesting I do - how to do those 2 options.

UYVY fourcc? Is that another compression/codec I can use in virtualdub?

AVFS - downloaded something I have no idea what to do with it to get the result your suggesting.

Anything you can point me to as far as a step by step guide?

[Bwaak]

I believe it has been established that Cineform works correctly in Vegas.

[poisondeathray]

It's uncompressed video. But in a specific fourcc configuration . You need lots of HDD space. SD is not too bad, editing might be slower in vegas depending on your storage (SSD is ok)

e.g. vdub2 .
Assuming you have an 8bit 4:2:2 input format (e.g huffyuv) , with the video loaded, select

video => decode format , select 4:2:2 YCbCr UYVY
video => compression , select Uncompressed YCbCr
file => save as AVI

You are decompressing your huffyuv input files, to uncompressed UYVY , instead of uncompressed YUY2

Yes, cineform works correctly in vegas, and is near lossless . Cineform also works in Premiere Pro, but only for MOV container. AVI container creates problems in PP for many codecs

[armyofquad]

I believe it has been established that Cineform works correctly in Vegas.

cineform? is that another codec to install for virtualdub and vegas?

[poisondeathray]

There is a version of Cineform bundled with vdub2 (2 not classic) , and vegas requires the cineform codec be installed separately (search for go pro cineform studio)

If there was a reason you were using huffyuv in the first place, there must be a reason why you wanted "lossless" - so I would weigh your options carefully. Cineform is near lossess, not lossless. You can see compression artifacts if you really look closely, even at the highest quality setting (filmscan 3, or 3+ if you are using ffmpeg) . It's similar in quality to ProRes HQ, very high quality. More than suitable for most situations, but not acceptable for others

[armyofquad]

There is a version of Cineform bundled with vdub2 (2 not classic) , and vegas requires the cineform codec be installed separately (search for go pro cineform studio)

If there was a reason you were using huffyuv in the first place, there must be a reason why you wanted "lossless" - so I would weigh your options carefully. Cineform is near lossess, not lossless. You can see compression artifacts if you really look closely, even at the highest quality setting (filmscan 3, or 3+ if you are using ffmpeg) . It's similar in quality to ProRes HQ, very high quality. More than suitable for most situations, but not acceptable for others

I landed on huffyuv because - years ago when I first tried to capture VHS tapes, I knew I wanted to get a high quality first pass, and then compress it down to wherever it was going, probably DVD at that time. So I was capturing uncompressed. The files were huge, but I would figure out how to deal. But then I had problems with the capture not working. Researching led me to lossless compression, and lossless is a term I like - being more versed in audio than in video. I avoid lossy compression in audio like the plague. But - video is just so huge, the end result just about has to have some sort of compression. Anyways, somehow I landed on huffyuv for my lossless compression, and had been using that for a while. Of course most of my captures are rather low quality VHS tapes, and less than ideal consumer VCRs, so I've had a lot of weak links in the chain.

I'm trying to up my game, but it's getting overwhelming to figure out a good process here that addresses everything. Seems for my purposes, my best option is the XP workstation I'm setting up with the repaired ATI all in wonder pro card and delta 1010lt for audio capture, one of those panasonic dvd recorders to passthrough for TBC (better than nothing, better options too cost prohibitive), and - perhaps cineform? To avoid huffyuv issues you've pointed out? And - what I'm capturing will likely be further compressed after editing to something more consumer friendly, I'm thinking cineform will be adequate for that. After all, huffyuv has been adequate up to this point, but I'm just not a video guy, I'm not seeing these things you talk about - although I'm sure if someone was sitting here while I'm working on this and started pointing out things, I'd probably not be able to unsee it.

Anyways - need to tinker some more with the latest XP build, the all in wonder card is giving me troubles again - the driver install process always takes multiple tries to appease the ATI gods.

[poisondeathray]

I landed on huffyuv because - years ago when I first tried to capture VHS tapes, I knew I wanted to get a high quality first pass, and then compress it down to wherever it was going, probably DVD at that time. So I was capturing uncompressed. The files were huge, but I would figure out how to deal. But then I had problems with the capture not working. Researching led me to lossless compression, and lossless is a term I like - being more versed in audio than in video. I avoid lossy compression in audio like the plague. But - video is just so huge, the end result just about has to have some sort of compression. Anyways, somehow I landed on huffyuv for my lossless compression, and had been using that for a while. Of course most of my captures are rather low quality VHS tapes, and less than ideal consumer VCRs, so I've had a lot of weak links in the chain.

For VHS sources, DVD or Web delivery, you ' re not going to see any difference in the end result if you use lossless vs. near lossless like cineform. The biggest limiting factor is the last compression step (Mpeg2 video for DVD, or whatever for web delivery)

and - perhaps cineform? To avoid huffyuv issues you've pointed out? And - what I'm capturing will likely be further compressed after editing to something more consumer friendly, I'm thinking cineform will be adequate for that. After all, huffyuv has been adequate up to this point, but I'm just not a video guy, I'm not seeing these things you talk about - although I'm sure if someone was sitting here while I'm working on this and started pointing out things, I'd probably not be able to unsee it.

For an audio guy, clipping is bad. You understand that. You don't want clipping in video either - it can be just as bad - you have a line where all data beyond that point is abruptly cut off

You can salvage the visible parts if you adjust it before clipping - but you can't do that in vegas for huffyuv/lagarith/ut video/...., because the clipping occurs before the user can do anything about it in vegas - the conversion happens right on import

If you adjust your YCbCr levels to legal range (Y 16-235, CbCr 16-240) in the huffyuv file before vegas gets it, then visible clipping won't be noticable in vegas

[armyofquad]

I landed on huffyuv because - years ago when I first tried to capture VHS tapes, I knew I wanted to get a high quality first pass, and then compress it down to wherever it was going, probably DVD at that time. So I was capturing uncompressed. The files were huge, but I would figure out how to deal. But then I had problems with the capture not working. Researching led me to lossless compression, and lossless is a term I like - being more versed in audio than in video. I avoid lossy compression in audio like the plague. But - video is just so huge, the end result just about has to have some sort of compression. Anyways, somehow I landed on huffyuv for my lossless compression, and had been using that for a while. Of course most of my captures are rather low quality VHS tapes, and less than ideal consumer VCRs, so I've had a lot of weak links in the chain.

For VHS sources, DVD or Web delivery, you ' re not going to see any difference in the end result if you use lossless vs. near lossless like cineform. The biggest limiting factor is the last compression step (Mpeg2 video for DVD, or whatever for web delivery)

and - perhaps cineform? To avoid huffyuv issues you've pointed out? And - what I'm capturing will likely be further compressed after editing to something more consumer friendly, I'm thinking cineform will be adequate for that. After all, huffyuv has been adequate up to this point, but I'm just not a video guy, I'm not seeing these things you talk about - although I'm sure if someone was sitting here while I'm working on this and started pointing out things, I'd probably not be able to unsee it.

For an audio guy, clipping is bad. You understand that. You don't want clipping in video either - it can be just as bad - you have a line where all data beyond that point is abruptly cut off

You can salvage the visible parts if you adjust it before clipping - but you can't do that in vegas for huffyuv/lagarith/ut video/...., because the clipping occurs before the user can do anything about it in vegas - the conversion happens right on import

If you adjust your YCbCr levels to legal range (Y 16-235, CbCr 16-240) in the huffyuv file before vegas gets it, then visible clipping won't be noticable in vegas

Adjusting the huffyuv file is greek to me - would ask follow up questions, but since I think we'd both agree that cineform will be adequate for my purposes, I'll skip the research on that angle for now.

But - back in virtualdub, I'm noticing that in the video set custom format, it was set to a rather low resolution. Changing to 720x480 has resulted in a lot of "format not supported" errors. Not sure which data format I want to be selecting. How should I be setting that up for VHS captures?

[Alwyn]

...

[rgr]

Captured it using lagarith for lossless compression. And.....VEGAS WON'T IMPORT IT, BECAUSE OF COURSE IT WON'T, BECUASE IT NEVER DOES A DAMN THING I WANT IT TO DO!!!!!!

Vegas can import Lagarith of course. Also UTVideo. Problably others (like MagicYUV) too.

[poisondeathray]

Captured it using lagarith for lossless compression. And.....VEGAS WON'T IMPORT IT, BECAUSE OF COURSE IT WON'T, BECUASE IT NEVER DOES A DAMN THING I WANT IT TO DO!!!!!!

Vegas can import Lagarith of course. Also UTVideo. Problably others (like MagicYUV) too.

He's resolved the issue. It was an install problem

All those "lossless" codecs in YUV mode get clipped in vegas. They are not lossless in vegas

[rgr]

Captured it using lagarith for lossless compression. And.....VEGAS WON'T IMPORT IT, BECAUSE OF COURSE IT WON'T, BECUASE IT NEVER DOES A DAMN THING I WANT IT TO DO!!!!!!

Vegas can import Lagarith of course. Also UTVideo. Problably others (like MagicYUV) too.

He's resolved the issue. It was an install problem

All those "lossless" codecs in YUV mode get clipped in vegas. They are not lossless in vegas

I've never had a problem, but I always save in RGB (Lagarith, UTVideo)

[poisondeathray]

Captured it using lagarith for lossless compression. And.....VEGAS WON'T IMPORT IT, BECAUSE OF COURSE IT WON'T, BECUASE IT NEVER DOES A DAMN THING I WANT IT TO DO!!!!!!

Vegas can import Lagarith of course. Also UTVideo. Problably others (like MagicYUV) too.

He's resolved the issue. It was an install problem

All those "lossless" codecs in YUV mode get clipped in vegas. They are not lossless in vegas

I've never had a problem, but I always save in RGB (Lagarith, UTVideo)

If you start with 8bit RGB, that works ok.

If you care about "lossless", 8bit YUV to 8bit RGB is not lossless either

[rgr]

Vegas internally works in RGB, filters in VirtualDub as well -- so the conversion happens anyway.