vhs to mp4 ...

[Tom81]

Currently, I transfer my vhs tape to a dvd using a dvd recorder. I then rip the dvd mp2 file and then convert that file to mp4. My question...would I gain any significant quality by converting the vhs tape directly to mp4 using someingthing like clearclick video to digital converter ?
https://www.amazon.com/ClearClick-Digital-Converter-2-0-Generation/dp/B083PZTDS9/ref=c...ct_top?ie=UTF8

[LigH.de]

Probably not. The digitalization quality in a DVD Recorder is probably superior to such plastic video converters. But storing intermediate MPEG-2 video with limited bitrate is the disadvantage, so both methods are mediocre.

High quality analogue video capturing requires a lot more efforts and different hardware, like a dedicated capture card for a PCIe slot. You would first capture using a losslessly compressing YUV 4:2:2 video codec (like Huffyuv, MagicYUV, Ut Video, etc.), one of the main reasons VirtualDub was once made for.

For best results, people once even captured the same movie 4 times and averaged these results...

[Tom81]

Thank you for your response..... any other opinions?

[lordsmurf]

Not at all, no.

Even that DVD recorder method probably isn't great. Which brand/model is it?
But the "MP4" (probably H264) is worse.

Better requires better LSI-based DVD recorders.
And/or lossless capturing.

[Tom81]

I have 2 vhs/dvd combos:
Panasonic dmr-es30v
JVC Dr- mv5su Do you know off hand if these have the LSI chips? Thank you for your help.
I also have a Panasonic ES10...that no longer records but I think you can still pass a signal through it.

[lordsmurf]

DR-MV5S has LSI.

ES10 is a minimalist TBC(ish), strong+crippled line TBC with non-TBC frame sync. It's not a TBC, but can stand in at times, though it will have a fail rate (some/many tapes balk, still give issues, sometimes uncaptureable).

[Tom81]

Thanks for your feedback. Can anyone recommend a dedicated capture card for pci slot?

[orsetto]

Not to be unkind, truly, but this topic comes up at least once a week here. If you just scroll quickly thru the latest list of thread topics you should find a couple recent discussions, or just search the topic "VHS capture" for a zillion threads on the subject. The advice hasn't changed much since ten years ago, because the recommended workflow and all the best hardware + software hasn't changed much since then. So a lot of info that seems "dated" really isn't (aside from second hand hardware prices getting higher every year).

One significant point to keep in mind:

You already have a much better than average "VHS capture device" in your JVC DR-MV5. I once owned ten of these for a mass transfer project I had to accomplish quickly, and still own two of them. They were specifically optimized for making VHS input look as good as possible using DVD technology, noticeably moreso than the Panasonic ES30V (although that one does have its fans also, everybody prefers a different "look"). Today, finding a functional LSI-based classic JVC dvd recorder (any model) in fully functional condition is almost impossible. Since yours apparently still works well, it seems a shame not to keep using it, but I absolutely understand converting the DVDs to MP4 results in sub-par MP4s (I'm disappointed by this process as well). If you could be happy with just the DVDs, or ripping the dvds into simple MPG files for disc-less playback, staying with the JVC recorder would be my choice.

Be aware the workflow to create truly "better" MP4 files is far more expensive, more time consuming, and more technical. While some few people do get lucky obtaining decent MP4s by buying only a PCI card and capturing direct to that from their existing VCR, generally one also eventually ends up dropping $800-$1200 for an external frame TBC box like DataVideo TBC1000 and $400 or more for a premium-quality VCR with internal line TBC and digital noise reduction like a JVC DigiPure model. Both these items are only available second hand now, so shopping for them can be a headache. They often need repairs to work their best, and technicians who do such work are scarce and expensive.

As LigH.de mentioned, you would capture to your PC in a losslessly compressed format, creating an enormous basic file that you then need to process thru two or more additional steps before you reach your goal of a reasonably-sized MP4 of noticeably better quality than you get from your DVD recorders. This multi-step process must be done for every. single. tape. which can get tedious with a very large VHS library.

For a basic primer on choosing capture cards, VCRs and TBCs, click the DigitalFAQ links LordSmurf conveniently places at the bottom of all his posts. There is no better source of such info, and that site has as many or more VHS>MP4 discussion threads as VideoHelp. At this late stage in the history of VHS capture, many of the discussions veer off into very technical sidebars, so be prepared for a learning curve before you plunge in.

Good luck!

[lordsmurf]

Also, to add, the VCR in the DR-M5 is garbage. Excellent DVD recorder only.

Here, I'd do
decent non-TBC JVC S-VHS VCR > ES10/15 as passthrough > JVC LSI recorder

That will give you some good DVDs.

[orsetto]

Also, to add, the VCR in the DR-M5 is garbage. Excellent DVD recorder only.

To be fair, there was a lot of sample variation with the VCRs in the JVC LSI combo units. If you get one that works well, I don't think the internal VHS deck in a DR-MV5 is significantly worse than a typical consumer-grade JVC of the same period. I wouldn't deliberately use it as an external VCR feeding another unit, but internally direct-coupled to the JVC dvd recorder section it can be OK. Of the dozen or so that have passed thru my hands, I'd say three or four had decent VCR performance in terms of video/hifi tracking and overall picture as encoded by the DVD recorder section. Another four were just "meh" with assorted issues in hifi tracking or video tracking (esp SLP/EP). The remaining four were plain bad: tape loader issues, tape eating during playback, etc.

But since the main advantage of the classic JVC LSI dvd and dvd/vhs recorders is their encoder performance and input filters tailored to VHS noise reduction, many of us do bypass the internal VCR DR-MV5 to connect a different external VCR to the DVD section line inputs.

Here, I'd do
decent non-TBC JVC S-VHS VCR > ES10/15 as passthrough > JVC LSI recorder

That will give you some good DVDs.

Agreed, using some sort of pass thru or TBC is very important when connecting an external VCR to the JVC DR-MV5. This is somewhat dependent on the specific tapes and/or VCR involved, but I have experienced many instances where the internal VCR will feed a reasonably steady signal to the DVD recorder while an external VCR (that actually plays the tape better in many respects) results in a real mess on the DVD unless some kind of pass-thru signal conditioner is connected. There appears to be some slight signal correction applied within the internal JVC VCR>DVD pathway, but not from the external line inputs. This becomes readily apparent with many second-generation tapes like compilations: the difference with or without a passthru or TBC connected is not subtle.

[lordsmurf]

- Consumer grade JVCs sucked, period.
- The lower non-TBC JVC S-VHS were what good consumer decks should have been.
- Upper non-TBC were quality non-TBC JVCs.
- There were also lower/mid/upper tiers for the with-TBC (line TBC) units.

The reason for the LSI is encode quality and the chroma noise reduction/removal. The JVC had no other corrective features. However, the ES10/15 does, by way of the strong+crippled line TBC.

Something that has irritated me lately is newbies retorting "I don't need pro quality" (translation: "I don't want to buy stuff, I want to be cheap").
Seriously, you think that? It's a VHS tape, or home camcorder movie tape. It never was pro quality, never will be pro quality. But that has nothing to do with anything. The goal here is to extract what quality that the videotape does have, without further screwing it up. And VHS/etc tape output actually can look quite decent, if not bungled.

[dvd3500]

What he said...

[Tom81]

"Upper non-TBC were quality non-TBC JVCs."

So if your TBC JVC s-vhs recorder has TBC ...can't the TBC turned off? Would it still be inferior to non-TBC JVCs ?

[lordsmurf]

First line TBC wins.
First frame TBC wins.

You cannot stack line>line or frame>frame TBCs, the subsequent TBC does nothing. So if with-TBC JVC used, and TBC enabled, ES10/15 is inert.

Line+frame is not only allowed, but ideal. Different processing.

non-TBC and with-TBC are sort-of the same with TBC off. There are other differences, which affects quality. But ignoring those differences, just focusing on the TBC aspect, same. But again, far lesser quality, as ES10/15 injects noise/problems. Not transparent. (JVC isn't perfect, but almost always better, obvious visually to laymen. ES10/15 has processed look. Better than no TBC, but not at all better than better/actual TBCs.)