Jumpy Pixilated Preview Screen in Vegas Platinum 12

[wingspar]

I’ve been using Vegas Platinum 9 on Win XP for a while. I understand just enough about video editing to accomplish what I want to. Very basic stuff. Well, my new build with Win 7 doesn’t support 9.0, so I just purchased 12.0. Edited a short video, but didn’t save it. Had no problems. Decided to go ahead and process the video for saving.

One thing I didn’t notice at first, is that you can drag video onto the time line without starting a new project. I didn’t notice that at first, so didn’t start a new project the first time. With 9.0, you had to start a new project before you could drag anything to the time line.

This time, I drug the clip to the time line, and the preview window is so pixely and jumpy, I can’t watch it. First time the preview window was smooth and easier to watch than in 9.0. Why is the preview window so pixely and jumpy all of a sudden? I closed Vegas, and tried again, but still got the same thing.

[aedipuss]

try again but before putting the video on the timeline make a new project that matches the videos properties.

[wingspar]

I tried that, or at least I think that's what I did. Here is a screen shot from Vegas.

[aedipuss]

use mediainfo on the video and post the results from the text view. HDV is normally 1440x1080i except for a few jvc cams.

[wingspar]

I chose the 1280x720-30p because I shot it at 30p. The interface for starting a new project in 12.0 is much different than 9.0, so I have no idea what I'm doing. The camera is a Canon VIXIA HV30.


General
ID : 255 (0xFF)
Complete name : C:\Users\Gary\Videos\Brown Mtn Rock Pit\downloads-2013_07_10-11_31_24.m2t
Format : MPEG-TS
Commercial name : HDV 1080i
File size : 104 MiB
Duration : 32s 190ms
Start time : UTC 2013-07-10 11:31:23
End time : UTC 2013-07-10 11:31:51
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 27.0 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 33.0 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2013-07-10 11:31:23

Video
ID : 2064 (0x810)
Menu ID : 100 (0x64)
Format : MPEG Video
Commercial name : HDV 1080i
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@High 1440
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Custom
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=15
Codec ID : 2
Duration : 31s 865ms
Bit rate : 25.3 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 25.0 Mbps
Width : 1 440 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : Component
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.542
Stream size : 96.0 MiB (92%)
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Audio
ID : 2068 (0x814)
Menu ID : 100 (0x64)
Format : MPEG Audio
Format version : Version 1
Format profile : Layer 2
Codec ID : 3
Duration : 32s 208ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 384 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : 126ms
Stream size : 1.47 MiB (1%)

Menu
ID : 129 (0x81)
Menu ID : 100 (0x64)
List : 2064 (0x810) (MPEG Video) / 2068 (0x814) (MPEG Audio) / 2069 (0x815) () / 2065 (0x811) ()

[smrpix]

With those files you want an HDV 1440x1080 60i project. The fewer conversions you force the system to make the smoother your experience will be.

[budwzr]

I chose the 1280x720-30p because I shot it at 30p.

Just change the project back to match the video, like what smrpix said. Or in layman's terms, put the horse back in front of the cart.

[_Al_]

that "new project settings" is just there as something for those who start with Vegas as a clue, in Vegas Pro versions it is not there and you just go to detailed project properties settings where you can change values as you need. In Platinum version you can get to that detailed project setting like in that link below, you can change there size or fps or aspect ratio, or you can use that match media settings, check if fps , size and aspect ratio is alright, ...,jump to 2 min 41 sec:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxypEuVxKdw

[aedipuss]

i don't know if studio has the same way to set video properties as pro does, but you are going to have to manually tell vegas that the HDV is progressive. there is no way any program can tell as the video is still in a 60i wrapper, it's just that the two fields were shot at the same time, not one after the over.

in pro you import the video into the asset box, right click on it, choose properties, go to field order and choose none(progressive).

[_Al_]

oh, thanks aedipuss,

I just reliaze that, I forgot about that, I take it for granted those things, I shoot 30p HDV in 60i wrapper

yes, you have to tell Vegas it is 30p, not 60i, You cannot use scripts that interpret footage to 30p, Platinum does not supports scripting, , Vegas would acknowledge after running appropriate script, that clips on timeline are progressive, not interlace, scripting is for Pro version only. Besides even if you have Pro version and you use script to do that or even manually, Vegas cannot smart render then.

So you can do it manually clip by clip in Vegas , Right click a clip/properties/media/field order - progressive

So I do it differently ( to have smart render working) , I rewrapp all my 30p HDV clips (from Cannon HV30) with Restream . BEFORE loading into Vegas. That program is great for that you load clip:
check -Frametype progressive
uncheck - top field first
check - progressive sequence

Vegas 8.0c will smart render those true progressive clips then !! But not Vegas 12.0 !!! for some bloody reason, so that is why I still edit this 30p HDV with Vegas 8.0c.

I made winautomation program http://www.winautomation.com/ to do it automaticaly, I created program for that, because Restream does not have command line to create batch of some sort to handle the whole folder with clips

[aedipuss]

you could just do all your editing in 60i. smart rendering to a final 60i video will still be progressive inside the 60i wrapper. most players will just put the 2 fields together and it will show as 30p.

[_Al_]

Yes, I chose that way to have stored original clips proper way, as progressive as it is progressive and I want result, export, true progressive, flagged as progressive, I even used to make 30p DVD's (just to have it flagged progressive inside DVD, if somebody decided later to do something with it, call me crazy ).

O tried it that way also, deal with it as 60i, but something wasn't right, exporting 30p, do not remember what exactly, either graphics, titles, was not right using 60i project properties and setting project to 30p and clips left being interpreted as 60i , something wasn't right either.

[wingspar]

_Al_ .... Thank you for the video. That helped a lot. No way could I have figured any of that out on my own.

I read up on “wrappers” a few months ago to where I sort of understood what a wrapper is, but I’ve slept since then. It’s one of those terms I come across in video editing that just doesn’t make much sense to me. If I shot the video in 30p, why is it called a 60i wrapper?

Also, I rendered the movie in .mp4 and .wmv, which is what I normally use, and could not tell any difference between them. Is there an advantage to one over the other?

[aedipuss]

mp4 is more widely used. wmv most likely won't work on any apple products. youtube prefers mp4 uploads.

[aedipuss]

vegas 12 won't smart render 30p HDV that has been re-wrapped as 30p because it's not in spec. only 60i is. 8c must not read the complete header so it doesn't know it's not compliant.

[wingspar]

mp4 is more widely used. wmv most likely won't work on any apple products. youtube prefers mp4 uploads.

I’ll use mp4 next time for my upload to YouTube. The mp4 file was slightly smaller, but not significantly smaller, so I just uploaded the wmv file since that’s what I’ve been using.

One weird thing happened after I uploaded it. Right as the video transitioned from one clip to the next ( I think I used a very short transition there but it doesn’t show) for a few seconds, half the video was covered by black pixels. It looks ugly. What caused that? Was the transition too short?

[aedipuss]

check your video on your computer to see if the transition works there. i've not seen youtube mess up just a transition.

[_Al_]

This is perhaps not related but:
Do you work with footage interpreted as 30p or 60i? Because as soon you decide to export to 30p from Vegas having that 60i interpreted footage on timeline (but in reality 30p), Vegas will deinterlace, which you do not want, maybe it would be a good ides to set deinterlace to NONE in project properties.

30p video in 60i wrapper means that video is progressive but stored as interlaced - flagged and stored as interlaced

[wingspar]

check your video on your computer to see if the transition works there. i've not seen youtube mess up just a transition.

It works in Vegas, but I thought I’d removed the transition as it looked better with no transition. If you blink, you miss it. The transition is a fade in and fade out transition that I thought I’d completely removed. Actually, I don’t know why there is a fade in and fade out transition. Must not have been paying attention to what I was doing. The transition is very short, and maybe YouTube can’t handle such a short transition.

As an experiment, I uploaded the mp4 version to YouTube and it plays fine. I don’t think there is a way to replace the wmv video with the mp4 video without losing all the views and comments, not that there’s a ton of them. About 20 views and 2 comments, so I hesitate to take them down. One friend says he doesn’t remember seeing the pixels, but I’m sure if I see them, anyone else does too.

[wingspar]

This is perhaps not related but:
Do you work with footage interpreted as 30p or 60i? Because as soon you decide to export to 30p from Vegas having that 60i interpreted footage on timeline (but in reality 30p), Vegas will deinterlace, which you do not want, maybe it would be a good ides to set deinterlace to NONE in project properties.

30p video in 60i wrapper means that video is progressive but stored as interlaced - flagged and stored as interlaced

I followed the instructions in the video you linked me to very closely. I don’t remember him discussing deinterlacing at all. The deinterlace is currently set to “Blend Fields” and “Adjust source media to better match project or render settings is checked.

Non (progressive scan) is chosen.

30p and 60i is still Greek to me.

[_Al_]

The link I gave was only to show you where project properties was, not for anything else, I do not have Vegas Platinum version so I check on YouTube how project properties work there, so I gave you that link as well.

Notice that he has 1920x1080 60i video and exports 30p, in project properties he's got deinterlace method set as "blend", Vegas uses this deinterlace method to deinterlace while exporting. He has true interlace video put on on timeline, where one frame consists of 540 odd and 540 even lines (together 1080). Camcorder records odd lines first from the top to bottom and only after that records even lines from the top to bottom again. That is how interlace works. You take a snap picture from interlace video and you see 2nd, 4th, 6th ..etc, line always shifted horizontally to the right or to the left depending where is object moving in the video. So you have to deinterlace those lines first to get a photo that makes sense. He does not mention deinterlace in that tutorial because he thinks everybody uses 60i original and deinterlace is set to blend field as a default so he doesn't bother. So he is not going there. BUT you have progressive video.

Google how interlace works if this is not clear to you.

Exporting interlace footage to web, you have to merge those odd and even lines together by using blend or interpolate to blend those fields together.

But you have progressive video where camcorder records 1080 lines continuously 1st, 2nd, 3rd all the way to 1080 line at one go. If you take a snap for picture from your video it will look ok. No deinterlace needed.

PROBLEM is that Canon HV30 shoots 30p exactly as I explained BUT stores it in 60i , interlaced transport stream and stores it on your tape. Footage is progressive but flagged as interlace. Now imagine Vegas thinks it is interlace and tries to make it progressive. Vegas will certainly try to deinterlace that footage to be progressive but that footage is already progressive. How is it going to deinterlace? Vegas uses that value from Project Properties. So that is why you should have set value NONE there. This might not be a big problem , imagine trying to blend two same values, (some homogenous background) you would calculate the same value, but nevertheless , something is slightly off, lines are different (perhaps always are) and you have third values returned for encoding, not originals.