XP, is it still viable for online browsing?

[Steve(MS)]

I have read statements here and there about so called security holes in XP and that it is vulnerable to attacks.
Now if it is true it wouldn't affect me but I do have family members using XP.

So what are you thoughts....or should the question be.... how to make XP secure for online browsing?

[DB83]

Given my track record, and especially after today's contributions, I am probably the worst person to answer this.

I have used XP for years and, as long as I can, will continue to use it. Web browsing is like a 'Pandora's Box'. If you do not open it then you can not catch it. But I have extreme faith in my Internet Security (N.I.S. - awaiting the belly laughs right now) and it has caught several nasties quite recently.

[sanlyn]

I have read statements here and there about so called security holes in XP and that it is vulnerable to attacks.
Now if it is true it wouldn't affect me but I do have family members using XP.

So what are you thoughts....or should the question be.... how to make XP secure for online browsing?

I repair PC's. I just spent 2 days + another 4 hours removing 8 trojans, 5 trojan downloaders, 18 adware apps, 2 phoney antivirus scams, the FBI Scam desktop hijacker, a handful of browser hijackers, and a TSS rootkit from a Windows 7 PC with Norton Internet Security 2013 installed on it. Started with booting up from a Linux disk in the DVD drive, deleting two folders of known malware so they wouldn't run. Then it took tricky reboots into Safe Mode/Command Prompt; from there, creation of another User I.D. to get into the machine, three runs of malware strippers to get a SafeMode desktop, 2 more runs of antivirus apps from there to get a SafeMode desktop with networking, three scans with online virus scanners including ESET and combofix to kill another handful of scams, when I finally get into the owner's original desktop to repair the registry and Microsoft Winsock layer. Why didn't we just re-install and not try to save the owner's system? They have $2000 worth of out-of-print business and medical software and Office 2012, for which they could not locate the installation disks. The final step was to remove Norton and install Kaspersky. Looked at their internet history and identified two known dangerous game websites their kids had visited. Kaspersky detected the sites trying to download crap onto their machine, blocked them, and terminated the connections.

Stop listening to the B.S. from marketers and big-box store salespeople. Use whatever you want.

[smrpix]

Damn Sanlyn! Not only do you tell a riveting story, I loved the twist at the end!

[sanlyn]

I'd rather have easy customers with easy problems like dead graphics cards.

[ranchhand]

Windows XP Pro as I set it up on my wife's computer, no infections for 5 years at least:
>Avira (free) av, (nag screens nuked through permissions).
>NO Internet Explorer, uses only Firefox with Noscript addon
>Latest Hosts file blacklist
>No kids on her computer (or mine) allowed
>Macrium Reflect (free) complete image 1Xweek. If she gets a virus, I merely reimage and she's back in business. Looses maybe 1 week data.
>[EDIT]: Oh, yeah, almost forgot.... we are behind a router firewall, and have Comodo firewall (not the antivirus part) installed as well. Then we know if something tries to dial out without our permission.

[Cornucopia]

Letting kids have unrestricted access to a business computer?!! Geez, I'd almost say they got what they deserved...

I would say in general, for any home or business where there is a reasonable risk of catching something online, USE DISPOSABLE/REPLACEABLE IMAGED VM SANDBOXES!

In fact, you could still run unprotected Win98 browsing in a VM, going to dangerous sites. Wouldn't matter if you intended to trash the VM image anyway. Of course, you would have browser version display issues...

Scott

[fritzi93]

I would say in general, for any home or business where there is a reasonable risk of catching something online, USE DISPOSABLE/REPLACEABLE IMAGED VM SANDBOXES!

That's exactly what I've been doing the last several years. Plus a router/firewall and image the host OS drive fairly often. Shared folders are carefully restricted, and the internet is only accessed through the VM. If the VM OS stuffs up, just close it and delete the VM folder from your host OS, then replace with your copy. Only takes a few minutes and you're back in business.

Dunno why that method is not recommended more often. It would seem to be nearly foolproof. Or am I missing something?

[sanlyn]

You might be missing the fact that most users wouldn't have the slightest idea what you're talking about:

- OS? What's an OS?.
- It's an operating system.
- What's an operating system?
- You probably have the Windows operating system on your computer.
- I do? But the label on the front says Hewlett Packard.

[Noahtuck]

You might be missing the fact that most users wouldn't have the slightest idea what you're talking about:

- OS? What's an OS?.
- It's an operating system.
- What's an operating system?
- You probably have the Windows operating system on your computer.
- I do? But the label on the front says Hewlett Packard.

Can I get an AMEN!!!!!!!
LOL!!!

[aedipuss]

Buy the kids tablets android, or ithings and they can browse without causing problems. A bonus is games are cheap. I am using a rooted nook hd+ now while watching the bball game.

[Gramps]

You might be missing the fact that most users wouldn't have the slightest idea what you're talking about:

- OS? What's an OS?.
- It's an operating system.
- What's an operating system?
- You probably have the Windows operating system on your computer.
- I do? But the label on the front says Hewlett Packard.

I think there are quite a few stories like that.

I worked on the Microsoft help desk back when Windows 95 first came out. A guy called the desk and told me that he had just installed Windows 95 on his PC and it broke his cup holder. Cup holder???? After 10-15 minutes trying to drag the details out of him, it turns out that he didn't know he had a CDROM drive in his computer and he thought that the drawer with the hole in the center that popped out was meant to hold his coffee cup!! Windows 95 didn't have a driver for his no-name brand CDROM.

[hech54]

is XP still viable for online browsing?

Stop listening to stupid people.

[MOVIEGEEK]

1. Use Google Chrome browser, IE 8 is worthless.
2. Make sure you update XP monthly(patch Tuesday).
3. Get yourself good AV and anti-malware software, Windows Defender is worthless.
4. Keep kid's grimy little fingers off your PC.

[pandy]

Using XP everyday - with good firewall (kerio 2.1.5) - no antivirus or antimalware program (occasionally use scanner from DrWEB - CureIT + sometimes NOD32 scanner) - no problems, no infections from many years (8 - 10?).

I see no point to move to Win7 (perhaps except gaming but for this i have PS3 and Xbox360).

But - i'm very picky about all suspicious signs - no blindly clicking - always analyzing and checking.

Btw i use firefox (palemoon) which is quite old (3.6.28 with additional plugins) - some crappy pages not work but usually there is no loss from my side (only webadmin and company that use non compatible solution loose).

[jman98]

I work in IT and if you have a firewall on the XP boxes (3rd party is probably best for XP, but Microsoft's own firewall is fine on Win 7 and up) and anti-virus and maybe anti-spyware programs it should be OK. But if the family members go to websites they really shouldn't visit and click on things they shouldn't and open files they shouldn't via phishing email, they will have problems. However, do note that Microsoft really and truly will drop XP support one day. Even now I'm noticing less effort to fix security problems. All versions of Windows have horrible security holes that get found all the time so eventually your relatives will be in a situation where their versions of XP will have known security problems without a solution. Whether those problems really and truly get exploited is a good question.

I can tell you that unpatched XP boxes without a firewall have been subjected to security tests and the study I read showed that on average it only took 10 minutes after being first connected to the internet for one to be under the control of outsiders due to various unpatched security holes.

[sanlyn]

All true. I can't answer for others, but I'm unable to control the way families set up and use their PC's. I set them up as well as I can during initial setup or repair and advise on future modifications and use. They usually ignore most of it. The next time I visit a few months later, some guest, friend or the cleaning lady has screwed things up again. I can't complain that much -- if it weren't for these customers, I couldn't afford all the a/v gear I own today.

[MOVIEGEEK]

However, do note that Microsoft really and truly will drop XP support one day. Even now I'm noticing less effort to fix security problems.

That's a good point, they drop support next year in April.

http://www.zdnet.com/windows-xp-diehards-can-you-survive-the-april-2014-deadline-7000016530/

[sanlyn]

I'm keeping it anyway. No way I'm ditching $1500 worth of software, a lot of good free stuff, and my ATI capture cards.

[Hoser Rob]

The ubuntu site says something much like: the biggest security problem is between the keyboard and the chair.

[jimdagys]

Have xp home on my netbook, no antivirus but have Malwarebytes, no problems. I uninstalled Chrome because it put some stuff in Scheduled Tasks, and didn't tell me in bold front center warning that it was going to do this. I did a search on my computer on any Google stuff and renamed any exes to txt. No problem.

[usually_quiet]

As others have said, running good third-party security software is how one stays safe with XP. Anti-malware/anti virus scanners, software firewalls, and router firewalls are all good things to have in place. Virtual machines, and hard drive image backups are also helpful, but the average user probably won't want to use those options.

However, many XP users have an older OEM machine that doesn't have the CPU power or the RAM to run good third party security software or a virtual machine without getting bogged down. Sometimes these machines can't be upgraded inexpensively, so a new PC is necessary for them to keep safe. Most people running Windows XP have an OEM license that can't be transferred to a new PC, or one with a new motherboard and CPU. Even if someone wants to stay with XP, it is not easy to find a legitimate copy of Windows XP for sale now, and even when their current Windows XP license is transferable, a new OEM PC, particularly a laptop, may not have XP drivers available for all components, so Windows XP has to be abandoned.

When I upgraded to a new Windows 7 system a few years ago, Windows 7 proved to be a good replacement for XP, although it is still necessary to run security software, of course. I did run into a few problems with incompatible old software and hardware, although I didn't have more of those sorts of problems than when I migrated from Windows 95 to Windows XP.

Making the transition from Windows XP to Windows 7 is not too bad. However, there are few home PCs sold now that still offer Windows 7 as an option. If Windows 8 is the only choice, it offers some minor security enhancements, but making the transition from an earlier version of Windows to Windows 8 can be painful. Adding a 3rd party start button and start menu via Start 8, Classic Shell, etc. is a great help.

[usually_quiet]

The ubuntu site says something much like: the biggest security problem is between the keyboard and the chair.

If some people are reluctant to leave Windows XP behind because making the transition to a newer version of Windows is too much of a challenge for them, do you seriously think Linux is going to work out for those folks?

[Edit]...but yes, user behavior has a lot to do with online safety.

[Constant Gardener]

I can tell you that unpatched XP boxes without a firewall have been subjected to security tests and the study I read showed that on average it only took 10 minutes after being first connected to the internet for one to be under the control of outsiders due to various unpatched security holes.

Yes. About ten years back we tested this - unboxed a new PC and connected it outside the firewalls. It was infected within four minutes, much to the disbelief of skeptics. Admittedly this was at a well-known address that is constantly under attack.

[MOVIEGEEK]

Have xp home on my netbook, no antivirus but have Malwarebytes, no problems. I uninstalled Chrome because it put some stuff in Scheduled Tasks, and didn't tell me in bold front center warning that it was going to do this. I did a search on my computer on any Google stuff and renamed any exes to txt. No problem.

Those scheduled tasks are harmless, it allows Chrome to automatically update itself.

[jman98]

Those scheduled tasks are harmless, it allows Chrome to automatically update itself.

That's right. You actually want Chrome to do this because Google usually gets security fixes out faster than Microsoft and the Firefox maintainers.

[aedipuss]

The ubuntu site says something much like: the biggest security problem is between the keyboard and the chair.

If some people are reluctant to leave Windows XP behind because making the transition to a newer version of Windows is too much of a challenge for them, do you seriously think Linux is going to work out for those folks?

[Edit]...but yes, user behavior has a lot to do with online safety.

new releases of most linux packages like ubuntu, mint, etc. are really easy to use if the intended purpose is surfing, word processing, and other common tasks. the current office/music/photo apps are pretty good on linux.

[usually_quiet]

The ubuntu site says something much like: the biggest security problem is between the keyboard and the chair.

If some people are reluctant to leave Windows XP behind because making the transition to a newer version of Windows is too much of a challenge for them, do you seriously think Linux is going to work out for those folks?

[Edit]...but yes, user behavior has a lot to do with online safety.

new releases of most linux packages like ubuntu, mint, etc. are really easy to use if the intended purpose is surfing, word processing, and other common tasks. the current office/music/photo apps are pretty good on linux.

Maybe, but those apps are a bit different than the Windows apps these people are used to. ...and then there are the hardware issues to contend with, because of a lack of drivers for Linux, and all the small things to re-learn, like the differences in how path names work.

[El Heggunte]

Q.: XP, is it still viable for online browsing?

A.: Surely. As long as you use an ACTUAL firewall, avoid dangerous sites, have selected and installed MANUALLY the relevant updates, and use a browser that doesn't assume you're an incurable idiot , your web-surfing will run fine.

[jman98]

Maybe, but those apps are a bit different than the Windows apps these people are used to. ...and then there are the hardware issues to contend with, because of a lack of drivers for Linux, and all the small things to re-learn, like the differences in how path names work.

It depends. If you learned the broken, half ass bs way that Microsoft Office has worked since 2007 where not a single damn thing is intuitive any more and the most simple of tasks are now completely hidden under layers of obscure submenus, not mention often having to do a search on Google/Yahoo/Bing etc. to find out how to do the most mundane of tasks, then yes, the Linux apps that are compatible with Office are "different" in that they use something akin to the old Office interface that actually works and wasn't designed by a drunken monkey. I've read tons of accounts of offices and people switching to Linux for various financial reasons and the one thing I haven't read is how nobody could come to grips with doing things under Linux. Thunderbird is so superior to Outlook as a mail reader that Outlook looks like a complete joke. Photo apps are different, yes, but some of the music apps are the same. Honestly it's just not that hard to use Linux, but I don't recommend fit or people who want to do serious video/music work. Playing files is one thing. Creating your own BD/DVD discs is something completely different.

What is this "lack of drivers" stuff you are coming up with? That's quite rare actually and usually only bites people who don't do their research. Look, I'm not saying that Linux is all things to all people but what you say is just classic Microsoft FUD (Fear Uncertainty Doubt). Do I promise that you can buy any random capture card and it will work under Linux? Certainly not. But can you find a few capture cards that will work? Yes.