How do I convert from MSS2 Codec while keeping file size low?

[exxoid]

Hi,

I have a video file that I am trying to convert from MSS2 codec, the reason for this is because online video services such as youtube/vimeo do not recognize the codec when uploaded.

Here is my video information..

General
Complete name                            : C:\Video\UF Recall Webinar\1 Traceability and Recalls, FDA Expectations\livemeeting.wmv
Format                                   : Windows Media
File size                                : 16.3 MiB
Duration                                 : 1h 11mn
Overall bit rate mode                    : Constant
Overall bit rate                         : 32.1 Kbps
Maximum Overall bit rate                 : 296 Kbps
Movie name                               : "Training for A Recall, Communicating Under Fire" Webinar Series
Recorded date                            : 2011
Encoded date                             : UTC 2011-03-11 19:14:56.410
Comment                                  : Microsoft Office LiveMeeting 2005 Replay.  Recorded on Friday, March 11, 2011 12:58:42 PM EST

Video
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : Windows Media
Codec ID                                 : MSS2
Codec ID/Info                            : Windows Media 9
Description of the codec                 : Windows Media Video 9 Screen
Duration                                 : 1h 11mn
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 260 Kbps
Width                                    : 704 pixels
Height                                   : 528 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 4:3
Frame rate                               : 2.000 fps
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.350
Stream size                              : 132 MiB

Audio
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : WMA
Format version                           : Version 2
Codec ID                                 : 161
Codec ID/Info                            : Windows Media Audio
Description of the codec                 : Windows Media Audio 9.1 -  16 kbps, 16 kHz, mono 1-pass CBR
Duration                                 : 1h 11mn
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 16.0 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 1 channel
Sampling rate                            : 16.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Stream size                              : 8.14 MiB (50%)

I have managed to use Windows Movie Maker and adding the video in then saving the video project, the final output is...

General
Complete name                            : C:\Video\UF Recall Webinar\1 Traceability and Recalls, FDA Expectations\1 Traceability and Recalls, FDA Expectations.wmv
Format                                   : Windows Media
File size                                : 81.0 MiB
Duration                                 : 1h 11mn
Overall bit rate mode                    : Constant
Overall bit rate                         : 159 Kbps
Maximum Overall bit rate                 : 305 Kbps
Encoded date                             : UTC 2013-03-27 21:00:32.243
Cover                                    : Y

Video
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : VC-1
Format profile                           : MP@ML
Codec ID                                 : WMV3
Codec ID/Info                            : Windows Media Video 9
Codec ID/Hint                            : WMV3
Description of the codec                 : Windows Media Video 9
Duration                                 : 1h 11mn
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 276 Kbps
Width                                    : 704 pixels
Height                                   : 528 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 4:3
Frame rate                               : 2.000 fps
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.371
Stream size                              : 140 MiB

Audio
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : WMA
Format version                           : Version 2
Codec ID                                 : 161
Codec ID/Info                            : Windows Media Audio
Description of the codec                 : Windows Media Audio 9.2 -  16 kbps, 16 kHz, stereo 1-pass CBR
Duration                                 : 1h 11mn
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 16.0 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Sampling rate                            : 16.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Stream size                              : 8.14 MiB (10%)

The problem is, converting it away from MSS2 codec bloats the file 6x as much.. I then tried to use software such as Any Video Converter to convert it to x264 format (HTML5) and the file is 10x as large !!

General
Complete name                            : C:\Users\mirde\Documents\Any Video Converter\HTML5\1 Traceability and Recalls, FDA Expectations_x264.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom
File size                                : 132 MiB
Duration                                 : 1h 11mn
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 259 Kbps
Writing application                      : Lavf54.6.100

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : Baseline@L1.3
Format settings, CABAC                   : No
Format settings, ReFrames                : 2 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 1h 11mn
Bit rate                                 : 179 Kbps
Nominal bit rate                         : 192 Kbps
Width                                    : 704 pixels
Height                                   : 528 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 4:3
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 8.000 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.060
Stream size                              : 91.0 MiB (69%)
Writing library                          : x264 core 119
Encoding settings                        : cabac=0 / ref=2 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x1:0x111 / me=umh / subme=6 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=0 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=3 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=0 / weightp=0 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=8 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=40 / rc=abr / mbtree=1 / bitrate=192 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                           : LC
Codec ID                                 : 40
Duration                                 : 1h 11mn
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 77.3 Kbps
Maximum bit rate                         : 128 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 44.1 KHz
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 39.3 MiB (30%)

Is there anything I can do to get it out of MSS2 codec and keep the filesize down?

[poisondeathray]

The problem is you're using poor compression settings with x264 (baseline, no cabac or bframes), probably introducing extra duplicate frames (2fps source, 8fps encode), and increasing the audio size by 4-5x

Ultimately filesize=bitrate x running time . If you used the same bitrates as the original video & audio, it will be the same size

[exxoid]

In your example, ultimately size = bit rate x runtime.

Original file: Bit rate : 260 Kbps (file size: 16.3 MiB)
New file Bit rate : 276 Kbps (file size: 81.0 MiB)

That's +16 Kpbs, but the size difference is 5x?

If we look at the new file using the WMV3 (81mb) codec, this is something that mencoder can work with, is there an example as to the parameters I could pass to mancoder (MEncoder Redxii-SVN-r36050-4.6.3) to convert this file into a smaller size?

[poisondeathray]

Total bitrate = video bitrate + audio bitrate (+ container overhead , but we can ignore this most of the time)

audio bitrate in original was 16, 77 in the 2nd encoding

Also, mediainfo might not be accurate (it doesn't scan the file, just reads header) . Use something like bitrate viewer if you want parsing

[exxoid]

I have analyized it with bitrate viewer and the screenshot is attached... I cannot open the MSS2 codec file version with bitrate viewer, codec not found error. This is my very reason trying to get away from MSS2 codec as nothing works with it...

I guess my option now, using the 80mb file.. can I not push that through mancoder with tuned parameters to convert it to a smaller size? Any examples of this? (not very familiar with mancoder.. just started exploring options today).

[poisondeathray]

Typically MSS2 files are VFR (variable frame rate) . That's why they make good choice for screen recordings, lectures, slide shows. In sections with long pauses , the frame rate drops to fractions. To get similar efficiencies in encoding you typically have to encode VFR as well.

BUT youtube has problems with VFR uploads, they don't work properly, sync issues (you typically convert to CFR, but adding duplicate frames to "fill in the gaps") . The software you used probably did this "behind the scenes", notice the discrepancies in reported framerate. But by adding all these duplicate frames, they cost something . Using better x264 settings, you can use more b-frames (they have lower cost), but it's still not as efficient as a VFR encoding (because encoding something to fill those frames still costs more than "nothing")

[poisondeathray]

I guess my option now, using the 80mb file.. can I not push that through mancoder with tuned parameters to convert it to a smaller size? Any examples of this? (not very familiar with mancoder.. just started exploring options today).

I'm not familiar with mencoder syntax

But typically what you want to do with x264 in this scenario is use high profile, increase the GOP size, increase the max bframes count, badapt 2

If there is any noise or compression artifacts in the source, you might want to apply denoising or filtering (it will reduce bitrate requirements)

[exxoid]

Thanks for the response poisondeathray, the VFR explanation makes a lot of sense now on the file sizes.

As I am not too experianced with encoding/converting this stuff, maybe I'll just stick with the WMV3 file output (from Windows Movie Maker) and upload that to Vimeo (as that works) and I do believe when uploaded to Viemo it also does something to uploads to make them better for playback purposes.

In which case, I think as long as I can upload and have Vimeo recognize its a win/win situation.. The downside is I have to convert and upload larger files, but that's minimal.

This was mostly curiosity at this point and I think I understand what I would need to do.

Any suggestions as to what program to use to convert from WMV3 to a "x264 high profile, increase the GOP size, increase the max bframes count, badapt 2" video profile?

[poisondeathray]

You can access the parameters with x264.exe, or use some GUI's that allow you command line access or access to these options e.g. megui, ripbot, I'm sure there are dozens more . Some GUI"s are limited and don't allow you access to all the options or commandline additions