having problem keeping audio in sync when conveting eposidic disk to mkv.

[dragonkeeper]

Hey gang its been a while since I've ripped and converted DVDs. But I'm currently trying to encode some of older tv shows to mkv to put on my media server.I'm having the same proble with each series i have attempted to rip (Moonlight, Painkiller Jane, Witchblade, Mcgyver and Birds of Prey). The problem is that you can notice the audio going out of sync as you watch the converted episodes, the first episode on the disk seems to play fine but the last episode on disk is way out of sync as much as 2 seconds toward the end of the episode. As stated before this is happening with every episodic disk i try so i'm assuming its something in my process.
tools i'm using are:
DVDFab HD Decrypter
MakeMKV
Ripbot 264/Megui

I'm ripping the DVDs using DVDFab, i've tried ripping main movie then use MakeMKV to get the individual episodes and then encode the individual episodes with ripbot and MEGui results was the same audio out of sync. I've tried ripping the individual episodes using DVDFab then encoding with ripbot and MEGu again the episodes would go out of sync.


I've spent two days trying to figure this out. What am i missing?

[MilesAhead]

Are the sources SD DVD discs? If so, what happens when you just use MakeMKV by itself to get titles? I don't understand why you are encoding unless it's to save space. For episodic DVD I just rip to titles using MakeMKV and play on my WD set top box.

[dragonkeeper]

Are the sources SD DVD discs?

Yes the sources are SD disk (I've yet to encounter this problem with BD or HD-DVD disk)

If so, what happens when you just use MakeMKV by itself to get titles??

THe MKV files that MakeMKV produces play just fine, hence my confusion.

I don't understand why you are encoding unless it's to save space. For episodic DVD I just rip to titles using MakeMKV and play on my WD set top box

I'm indeed encoding to save space my video library is enormous (and pretty much buy new BDs or an older series every week) I plan to centralize it onto my network share, I am perhaps two thirds of the way through the endeavor and currently have about 12TB of disk space in use. So to me saving space is a must.

[manono]

You're not taking into account the audio delays? In many cases when all episodes are in the same PGC, there are audio delays for every episode after the first.

Also, I suspect there may be unreferenced cells left after the decrypt. You can confirm (or disprove) by checking in such programs as PGCDemux, PGCEdit, or VobBlanker. It's often a good idea to run the whole thing through FixVTS after the decrypt to get rid of them.

[dragonkeeper]

You're not taking into account the audio delays? In many cases when all episodes are in the same PGC, there are audio delays for every episode after the first.

Also, I suspect there may be unreferenced cells left after the decrypt. You can confirm (or disprove) by checking in such programs as PGCDemux, PGCEdit, or VobBlanker. It's often a good idea to run the whole thing through FixVTS after the decrypt to get rid of them.

THX Manono:
I've run the entire DVD through FixVTS and still receive the same result, is there a method to get the audio delays of each episode?

[MilesAhead]

I would try ripping with MakeMKV. Then feed the titles into TEncoder. It's designed to run in batch.

[manono]

...is there a method to get the audio delays of each episode?

If the individual episodes have been decrypted as little DVDs, you can open the IFO in PGCDemux and check the A/V Delay. Otherwise, when making the D2V with DGindex (which I always do myself), the audio is given with the delay as part of the title. Even if not using an AviSynth script, you can use the ']' button in DGIndex to isolate a tiny part at the beginning and get the delay from the audio it gives you when making a quick D2V just for getting that delay value.

[dragonkeeper]

I would try ripping with MakeMKV. Then feed the titles into TEncoder. It's designed to run in batch.

Thanks for the suggestion Miles Tencoder does indeed encode the files correctly I have encoded one on of the problem files and it has perfect sync. TEncoder is lacking full control i'm accustom to when using Ripbot or Megui, particularly avisynth. TEncoder may be waht i fall back on if i unable to resolve my issue though other means. Thanks again for a suggestion that works.

[MilesAhead]

I would try ripping with MakeMKV. Then feed the titles into TEncoder. It's designed to run in batch.

Thanks for the suggestion Miles Tencoder does indeed encode the files correctly I have encoded one on of the problem files and it has perfect sync. TEncoder is lacking full control i'm accustom to when using Ripbot or Megui, particularly avisynth. TEncoder may be waht i fall back on if i unable to resolve my issue though other means. Thanks again for a suggestion that works.

TEncoder is a work in progress. The author is working on getting ffmpeg to use .avs scripts correctly. I've not used mencoder enough to know what to do with it. But I have a lot of experience with ffmpeg based tools. I'd love to see .avs script support. Maybe release 3.2 the bugs will be ironed out of the .avs handling with ffmpeg.

[hello_hello]

The solution is simply to prepare the DVDs properly for encoding using one method or another. Mine's this.

Open the ripped files using DVD Shrink. Use the re-author button to prepare the DVD. If it's a movie you'll see one large title, if it's an episodic DVD you'll see several. Generally it's obvious which title is which episode (even if the title numbering doesn't start at 1) but if in doubt open the DVD with MPC-HC, use the usual DVD menu to briefly play each episode and make note of the title numbers in the status bar.

Drag each required title from the right pane to the left. You can delete any audio/subtitle tracks for each you don't require. Use the backup function to backup the re-authored version to a new location on your hard drive. IMPORTANT: Go into DVDShrink's options first and set the output size to something large. I just set it to 50GB. That way, there's no chance DVDShrink will recompress the video when using the backup function.
You can also use the DVD Browser to open a second or third lot of ripped DVD files. When you open each, drag each title from the right to the left as before. Handy if you're encoding a seasons worth of episodes which use multiple discs. Use "Backup" when you're finished. You'll end up with a folder containing a set of vob files for each episode. Open the first vob file for each season with MeGUI or Ripbot for encoding. You shouldn't have any audio sync problems.

I use the above method to rip and re-author DVDs in one step. With AnyDVD running in the background decrypting I open the disc with DVD Shrink directly, re-author them and then let DVD Shrink rip them. It saves having to rip and then re-author, and if you have more than one DVD drive you can include multiple discs the same way.

Very occasionally, you'll find a DVD which uses a single title even though it's an episodic DVD. If that's the case, the episodes can be split using the DVD chapters. You'd drag the single title from the right to the left, then use the edit button to select the start and end chapter for the first episode. Drag the title from the right to the left again and use the edit button to select the start and end chapter for episode two.... and so on..... DVDShrink will still output a set of vob files per episode ready for you to encode.

[hello_hello]

If so, what happens when you just use MakeMKV by itself to get titles??

THe MKV files that MakeMKV produces play just fine, hence my confusion.

It's probably due to audio gaps between episodes. MakeMKV is probably remuxing the video/audio as an MKV while leaving the gaps intact, or if it's creating an MKV per episode it'll set the correct audio delay for each.

When you split the vob files into episodes for encoding DGIndex will specify any audio delay required. When you try to encode a set of vob files which contain multiple epsiodes it doesn't account for gaps though, which is probably the problem.

For the record, if MakeMKV has created an MKV for each episode, you can still use MeGUI to re-encode it and the audio should be fine. Instead of DGIndex it'll use ffmsindex for indexing and a different tool to extract the audio but the end result should be the same.

[manono]

If it's a movie you'll see one large title, if it's an episodic DVD you'll see several.

Anime often has all the episodes within the same title, as is the case here. That's the cause of the problem - every episode after the first has a delay.

If that's the case, the episodes can be split using the DVD chapters.

That's the case. He's splitting them into episodes, but by a different method, one that doesn't give him the delays. And I don't think he uses DGIndex, as you and I do.

[dragonkeeper]

...is there a method to get the audio delays of each episode?

If the individual episodes have been decrypted as little DVDs, you can open the IFO in PGCDemux and check the A/V Delay. Otherwise, when making the D2V with DGindex (which I always do myself), the audio is given with the delay as part of the title. Even if not using an AviSynth script, you can use the ']' button in DGIndex to isolate a tiny part at the beginning and get the delay from the audio it gives you when making a quick D2V just for getting that delay value.

I had been using ripbot, which uses dgindex to create a d2v file and demuxes the audio, but it was not reporting any audio delay. I've resorted to Using DVDfab to rip the individual episodes to its own dvd with video_ts.IFO and running each through fixfts, then encode with ripbot typically i still have to add a 250 to 350 ms delay to sync the audio but at least now I'm no longer off a 4 seconds at the beginning of an episode and nearly 10 seconds off towards the end. The process requires more interaction than i would like but hey it works.

[dragonkeeper]

The solution is simply to prepare the DVDs properly for encoding using one method or another. Mine's this.

I truly thought i was by ripping to hard drive using DVDFab

Open the ripped files using DVD Shrink. Use the re-author button to prepare the DVD.
Drag each required title from the right pane to the left. You can delete any audio/subtitle tracks for each you don't require. Use the backup function to backup the re-authored version to a new location on your hard drive.
You'll end up with a folder containing a set of vob files for each episode. Open the first vob file for each season with MeGUI or Ripbot for encoding. You shouldn't have any audio sync problems..

Does re-authoring with with DVDshrink take care of any unreferenced cells that may have been left behind?

[hello_hello]

I had been using ripbot, which uses dgindex to create a d2v file and demuxes the audio, but it was not reporting any audio delay. I've resorted to Using DVDfab to rip the individual episodes to its own dvd with video_ts.IFO and running each through fixfts, then encode with ripbot typically i still have to add a 250 to 350 ms delay to sync the audio but at least now I'm no longer off a 4 seconds at the beginning of an episode and nearly 10 seconds off towards the end. The process requires more interaction than i would like but hey it works.

I can't imagine what could be going wrong but if there's an audio delay required then DGIndex will specify it. Well it's never failed to do so for me. Does fixvts make a difference? What happens if you don't use it? I've read many posts where people say they use DVDFab to rip individual episodes the same way and don't have problems so it's a mystery to me.

Does re-authoring with with DVDshrink take care of any unreferenced cells that may have been left behind?

I'm pretty sure it does but manono's probably the DVD expert. I don't know much about their structure. I guess all I can tell you is I've been using DVDShrink for as long as I can remember..... well since I bought my first DVD-ROM drive many moons ago, and if it's been able to open and re-author a DVD, whether it be opening the disc directly or opening files already ripped to a hard drive, I've never had an issue encoding the backup files DVDShrink creates. Not once that I can think of.

Of course opening files using DVDShrink hasn't always been a perfect process.... if I remember correctly, years ago DVDShrink wouldn't open DVDs ripped to a hard drive by AnyDVD if AnyDVD's option to remove unreferenced cells was enabled, and RipIt4Me would sometimes produce rips which DVDShrink wouldn't open. Letting RipIt4Me run fixvts never caused a problem but whatever it's method for cleaning vob files, it stopped DVDShrink from opening the ripped files enough times that I simply stopped letting RipIt4Me do it, and a couple of times DVDShrink has given me an i/o error and refused to open a disc with AnyDVD decrypting but that's no doubt a copy protection thing, and both times RipIt4Me did the job instead with AnyDVD running, but as I said, I'm pretty sure I've never had an issue when encoding files which DVDShrink has re-authored once I've got it to open them.

Anyway.... maybe just let DVDFab rip a whole DVD and then re-author it with DVDShrink to see if the audio sync problem goes away. It's of course easier to rip and re-author in one step but with any luck you shouldn't have any problems.

Out of curiosity, after you've indexed the vob files what does the name given to the demuxed audio stream look like? It should always end with "DELAY 0ms" or "DELAY -232ms" etc accordingly and the muxing software should automatically use whatever delay value is specified.

[manono]

You can check if any unreferenced cells have been left behind after DVDFab HD Decrypter or FixVTS by opening the DVD in PGCDemux (check the cells, and not the titles), VobBlanker (check the cells), or PGCEdit (find the screen listing the cells) and checking for little tiny cells. I had always thought FixVTS would take care of things (knowing that DVDFab didn't always), but after a recent conversation I learned it didn't always either.

One way to go around the problem is to make the D2V for each episode and using the '[' button to go in a few frames of black. This assumes the unreferenced cells are found only at the beginning of each episode. Another is to completely remove the unreferenced cells with PGCEdit.