ratio question

[devdev]

I'd appreciate if someone could so give me their opinion on mynormal workflow to see if I’ve really understood how to deal with the ratioquestion!

1. I’ve checked the film on my mac using in fcexp propertiesand it’s 720 x 576. (but image looks squashed)

2. when I view it quicktime player , weirdly, it seems to recognise point oneabove by opening it up automatically as 16:9 – and it looks fine. There are noblack bars (bottom or top)

3. Using tmpg authoring works 4, in clip settings, I choose pal 4:3

The Result:

Looks good on tv (which seemed to default to 16:9 even though before switching offit was set to 4:3.

But on pc it came up automatically as 4:3 – which I reset to16:9 and it looked good.

Questions:
The first i’m asking myself, is why would the filmmaker output/give me thefilm as a 720 x 576 film when it’s obviously intended to be viewed in 16:9?
Im not reencoding using say my tmpgenc video mastering sw at the moment since i imagine that the authoring sw is doing that stage prior to burning so I see no need - does this sound right?

[aedipuss]

you've been hanging around here since 2003 and don't know the answer? dvd spec mpeg-2 is about the same as miniDV avis. they can be 4:3 or 16/9 720x576. there is a flag in the file that says which one.

use mediainfo on the source and it will tell you which it is.

authoring software normally only takes what you give it and creates the dvd structure if the files are compliant.

[devdev]

well thanks for answering despite your assertion that i should know!

what i still don't get is why didn't the flmmaker output the film as 1024x576 when it’s obviously intended to be viewed in 16:9?

it's not an issue that's actually not something that's affected me til now albeit a long tme i guess ..

[aedipuss]

dvd specs. only 720x576 is allowed for PAL dvd. it uses wider pixels for 16/9 then the ones used for 4:3.

[manono]

3. Using tmpg authoring works 4, in clip settings, I choose pal 4:3

Why would you do that when you already figured out it's supposed to be 16:9?

[Cornucopia]

It would only be 1024x576 if the DVD spec (which ALWAYS uses non-square pixels) were to output the equivalent image in square pixels.

What you should be doing is taking your FCP-outputted 720x576 16:9 footage and encode it in TAW as 720x576 (PAL) 16:9 mpeg, I assume for DVD.

What I don't get is why you obviously want to only work with square-pixels, even though the manner you are distributing them doesn't support that.

Scott

[devdev]

hi corcocopia and thanks for input. i'm determined to try and understand this

i've repeated test as you suggested (720x576 16:9 footage and encode it in TAW as 720x576 (PAL) 16:9 mpeg), and yes for DVD and image appears squashed (from sides) with black bars top and left. i attach a screenshot of my settings for encoding

But when i've subsequently done this and it looks fine:

encode at 720x576/aspect4:3
author the 720x576film at 4:3
The Result:
Looks good on tv (set to 16:9) - image occupes full screen not squashed, there are no black bars (bottomor top)

maybe im getting this result by accident?

[manono]

encode at 720x576/aspect4:3
author the 720x576film at 4:3
The Result:
Looks good on tv (set to 16:9) - image occupes full screen not squashed, there are no black bars (bottomor top)

maybe im getting this result by accident?

Why not just do it correctly in the first place and encode for 16:9? If for some reason that doesn't work, then you're doing something wrong somewhere.

[devdev]

hi - thanks -

ok here goes again

When i open file up in tmpgenc - in clip settings it says (i don't know if it's reading the file or it's defaulting to these settings): pixel 1:1 progressive and the video below is 25fps 720x576. i've now changed this to interlace (as mainly for tv screens) pixel 16:11 pal 16:9 and then in format screen i've changed the aspect ratio to 16:9.

then i use TAW to burn disc. when i open up it, in clip settings it seems to recognise it as interlace, pixel 16:11 pal 16:9 (in video section below 720x576 25fps)

When i view on tv at 16:9 setting the result is slightly different from before. The image is still stretched but there are black bars top and below only this time.

If image were to be 'pulled up and down' only to flll screen, then it would look ok since horizontally it looks fine to me. can you something obvious that im doing wrong?

[jagabo]

16:11 is for 704x576 sources. Since your video is 720x576 it's slightly wider than 16:9, hence the resizing and black bars top and bottom. Use 64:45 instead.

Unless your source is interlaced to start with don't treat it as interlaced and don't encode interlaced. You'll just reduce the quality.

[devdev]

There is no 64:45 - what would you recommend instead? Thanks......

[devdev]

Also, is there other software I'd need to do that?

[jagabo]

I don't have a newer version of TMPGEnc but the older versions had several source 4:3 settings to choose from:

[Cornucopia]

I'm now guessing the problem goes further back than that. A 720x576 DVD-Compliant MPEG2 file (as supposedly output from FCP) OUGHT to be 4:3 or 16:9 intrinsically. If setting those in the encoder puts out something which puts LETTERBOXING onto a widescreen tv, something is being done wrong somewhere (and I hate to say this, but I'm pretty sure it is in how you are adjusting the settings).

Go back to square one:
1. Give us a Mediainfo detailed text output of your ORIGINAL files (pre-editing) and/or 10sec. clips of those originals
2. Give us detailed info on your FCP project & render settings (either text or screencaps)
3. Give us a Mediainfo detailed text output of your RENDERED FCP files (post-editing) and/or 10 sec. clips from them
4. Give us detailed info on your TAW project & render settings (again, either text or screencaps)
5. Give us a Mediainfo detailed text output of your RENDERED TAW files (post-encoding) and/or 10 sec. clips from them
6. Tell us in thorough detail what model # equipment you use and how you have them set up (both PC hardware & software & CE hardware).

When troubleshooting, we can only work with clarity when we can isolate and analyze EACH step, independent of the other steps, and removing assumptions.

Scott

BTW, the FIRST thing I would do is set your TV to output "original AR". On my TV, it's called "Set by Program".

[devdev]

ok - great - thank you.

1. i attach the following images - mediainfo (which contrary to fcexp says 703 x 576) - don't have access tp any pre-editing files

2. didn't take movie in first place or output so dont have any fc project settings but under item properties, it says that frame size is 720 x 576. pixel aspect PAL - CCIR601

3. I attach a short clip from the film i've been given which ive exported in fcexp (using quicktime conversion : movie settings: compressor h.264. quality high. key frame rate 24 frame rendering yes encoding mode: multipass dimensions: 636x477)

4. When i open file up in tmpgenc - in clip settings it says pixel 1:1 progressive and the video below is 25fps 720x576. i changed this to interlace, field order:top field first, pixel 16:11 pal 16:9 . In format section i've changed the aspect ratio to 16:9. then i use TAW to burn disc. when i open up it, in clip settings it recognised it as interlaced, pixel 16:11 pal 16:9 (in video section below 720x576 25fps)

(this the version that when i viewed it on on a tv at 16:9 setting the image has black bars top and below only this time. If image were to be 'pulled up and down' only to flll screen, then it would look ok since, horizontally, it looks fine to me).

i attach the taw settings and resulting media info image

im using windows7, i72600 cpu, 3.40ghz, tmpg vmw5 5.2.4.68, tmpg dvd authoring works 4.1.2.49, ram 8, 64 bit

and yes, now i've set lg tv to 'original picture'

thanks to all for taking an interest

[devdev]

i forgot to say - not sure if it makes a difference - that i'm only using mac to view the orig mov files to answer properties question. the conversion/authoring is all done on the w7 machine