Why does the disney hd channel have their logo on the 4:3 edge vs 16:9?

[yoda313]

I watch the disney hd channel for the classic disney movies and the newer cg movies.

Why do they have the disney channel logo smack dab in the lower left in the middle of the widescreen frame where the 4:3 lower left edge would be? It seems they are the only hd channel that does that.

Of the main hd channels that I watch regularly they all have their logos in the extreme right (disney seems to be the only one on the left - is that to make it more noticeable since everyone else is on the right?). Why doesn't Disney do the same and put their logo on the extreme 16:9 left of the screen edge?

The logo will still be on the video. It is pretty jarring initially and if you've seen it you know their logo isn't settle or small - not huge but not small either. This is distracting early on during a movie.

Yes of course after awhile you get involved in the movie and you don't notice after a given time. But I would greatly prefer to have it at the extreme edge. Having it in the middle of the screen just detracts a lot from it.

Why would they do this? Is it ignorance on their part? Do the programmers and channel producer never watch their station on an actual widescreen set and notice how awkward the logo is?

Anyone else notice this type of inconsistency? You would think after hd has been around this long that they would have conformed to standard practices by now.

[gadgetguy]

Knowing Disney, they're probably wondering why everyone else is doing it wrong.

[yoda313]

Knowing Disney, they're probably wondering why everyone else is doing it wrong.

Ha good point.

[intracube]

Why would they do this? Is it ignorance on their part? Do the programmers and channel producer never watch their station on an actual widescreen set and notice how awkward the logo is?

I don't know how the Disney HD channel is distributed, but the logo might be positioned in case the channel ends up being formatted to CCO (center cut out) on a 4:3 TV.

The situation is the same in the UK for many SD 16:9 channels. The graphics are '4:3 safe'.

It's only been the last couple of weeks that the BBC's digital channels have moved their logos to the edge of the 16:9 frame - although most other graphics within programs are still 4:3 safe.

Aren't the NBC peacock and CBS eye similar in their positioning?

[yoda313]

although most other graphics within programs are still 4:3 safe.

That is true for most news broadcasts. I'm ok with that - I expect that.

Aren't the NBC peacock and CBS eye similar in their positioning?

I really haven't noticed. I don't watch the "main" networks very often. But I do know for football (nfl) anyway that fox has gone to letterboxed broadcast. So its widescreen whether your on a 4:3 set or 16:9. But I don't remember where the logo was.

case the channel ends up being formatted to CCO (center cut out) on a 4:3 TV.

That's interesting. At least there is potential logic for that. But would that mean the 16:9 was zoomed and cropped? Actually next time I think about I could check out the disney sd channel and see if they are broadcasting letterboxed or 4:3. If they are letterboxed then I would wonder why they don't edge the logo out to the side since it would be preserved that way in the letterbox presentation.

Thanks intracube. At least now I have an inkling of why they might be possessed to this insanity.

[intracube]

But I do know for football (nfl) anyway that fox has gone to letterboxed broadcast. So its widescreen whether your on a 4:3 set or 16:9.

Over here not many channels that broadcast in 16:9 letterbox the image into a 4:3 frame for SD - they broadcast as full height anamorphic.

The way the channel is formatted then depends on how the viewer has set up their digital receiver. Usually the options are:
- 16:9 anamorphic
- 4:3 letterboxed
- 4:3 full frame (CCO)
With terrestrial digital, active format description (AFD) flags can be sent as part of the transmission. I believe they can override the viewers receiver and force it to display 16:9 content as letterboxed, rather than CCO.

ISTR reading that digital satellite in the UK doesn't use the system. So there's no practical way for broadcasters to control how people watch 16:9 content.

But would that mean the 16:9 was zoomed and cropped?

Yes.

Here's an example of the BBC's safe area guidelines:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/tv/production/branding-guidelines-and-logos/indepen...atypface.shtml

[yoda313]

Over here not many channels that broadcast in 16:9 letterbox the image into a 4:3 frame for SD - they broadcast as full height anamorphic.

I am assuming that fox (the network fox for over-the-air broadcasts) is 4:3 letterbox. Sorry if I led the wrong impression. Though for digital converters it may not make much of a difference. But recording the old analog way would matter. But with using the proper zoom setting (simple overscan on my hdtv) will allow proper stretching of the letterbox video WITHOUT distortion (when viewing a sd channel that isn't 16:9 fyi).

[deadmeow]

You watch Disney Channel??

[yoda313]

You watch Disney Channel??

If you had read my original post you would see it was for the classic movies and the newer cg movies....

[intracube]

Over here not many channels that broadcast in 16:9 letterbox the image into a 4:3 frame for SD - they broadcast as full height anamorphic.

I am assuming that fox (the network fox for over-the-air broadcasts) is 4:3 letterbox. Sorry if I led the wrong impression.

I think we're on the same page - My comment was just to highlight that TV production can vary quite a bit between countries. For example in Germany, a lot of the channels make full use of the 16:9 frame for graphics - obviously with the view that people with 4:3 screens should watch 16:9 in a letterboxed mode (rather than cropped). The UK differs from this - most channels graphics are either 4:3 or 14:9 'safe'.

Though for digital converters it may not make much of a difference.

Actually it can. If a program is created/produced in 16:9, there are a number of ways the video can be formatted for digital SD distribution, including:

1. 16:9 source can be pre-letterboxed at the studio within a 4:3 frame (see image 1a)
- downside is that on some 16:9 TVs, the image may end up 'pillarboxed' and look like example 1b unless the viewer changes their TV's settings.
- another disadvantage is pixels are being wasted/used up by the black bars leading to lower vertical resolution
- advantage is that 4:3 viewers can be forced to watch letterboxed

2. 16:9 source can be transmitted as anamorphic video (image 2a/2b)
- downside is some 4:3 viewers may have their TVs set to 4:3 CCO and not see the edges of the frame (2a).
- graphics placement might be limited to the central part of the frame to avoid cropping text for 4:3 viewers
- advantage is that it should be formatted properly on 16:9 displays (2b) and have a higher vertical resolution.


For example when Fox News first switched to 16:9, the channel was pre-letterboxed (example 1a). But they've recently switched to anamorphic widescreen (2a/2b).

The introduction of 16:9 has added complexity to TV production, distribution. It was easier 10-15 years ago when TV was almost exclusively 4:3.

*sigh* - simpler times

[yoda313]

Thanks intracube.

[lordsmurf]

flags can be sent as part of the transmission. I believe they can override the viewers receiver and force it to display 16:9 content as letterboxed, rather than CCO.

This is correct.

Broadcasts are not single a/v streams -- not for many years now.
They're more like "multicasts" now.

I don't know how else to easily explain this.

It varies highly between carriers, countries, original delivered sources, etc.

The big conversations these days are multiple compressions within the same stream.
Mobile versions + SD + HD.

And nothing has a standard. FUN!