Capture card quality question

[Hackerpcs]

Hi. I have a Crypto PC TVR WOS II card, an analogue TV/Capture card. I digitized many VHS tapes with it and an old VCR but now I bought a new one with 6 heads and HiFi audio to take the quality from the tapes to their maximum. The new VCR is the LG-V280 VCR/DVD Combo (details here:
http://www.cingularelectronics.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=185 )
and card's details are here
http://www.cryptoelectronics.gr/catalog/partdetail.aspx?partno=V002451

The problem is that the quality with the new VCR isn't really different with the old one. I noticed also that TV quality can't be compared to the real TV's and made a test with my brother's Xbox 360. Here's a video with the Xbox starting (x264, cropped it and used FieldDeinterlace):
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=O50MK54H





I'm sure that this isn't the approximate for Xbox 360. What's your opinion?
EDIT: I recorded it with VirtualDub and HuffYUV and connected the Xbox to card's Video In (yellow).

[themaster1]

6 heads or 18 heads it will not help you to get the best out of your tape anyhow.
You need a high-end vcr, comprendes amigo ?

[minidv2dvd]

for sp tapes only 2 heads are used for recording/playing. more isn't any better. good quality narrow heads and a tbc are the only things that can improve playback. but remember you are also only getting about 230 lines of resolution off normal vhs anyway. about half the quality of dvd.

[Hackerpcs]

6 heads or 18 heads it will not help you to get the best out of your tape anyhow.
You need a high-end vcr, comprendes amigo ?

I'm not into this for a long time, what do you mean high-end?
Also please comment the present recording.

[minidv2dvd]

for straight vhs composite out that's about as good as you are going to get. s-video out should be sharper, and if it were svhs with s-video out it would be much closer to dvd quality.

[intracube]

- What type of video cable are you using? Use s-video instead of an antenna cable or composite video.
- Use a better deinterlacer; choose a program that has 'yadif' as an option for deinterlacing.
- Use software to sharpen the video.

Maybe someone can recommend suitable software for Windows that covers the last 2 points.

[Hackerpcs]

for straight vhs composite out that's about as good as you are going to get. s-video out should be sharper, and if it were svhs with s-video out it would be much closer to dvd quality.

No, all of the tapes are straight VHS and I think for VHS composite or S-video doesn't make difference.

- What type of video cable are you using? Use s-video instead of an antenna cable or composite video.
- Use a better deinterlacer; choose a program that has 'yadif' as an option for deinterlacing.
- Use software to sharpen the video.

Maybe someone can recommend suitable software for Windows that covers the last 2 points.

-S-Video is not available by the VCR, I use composite video.

-I use FieldDeinterlace because I think it's better from yadif. Here's an sample:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=N99SYU25
Notice the motion on the hand and generally the motion compared to the original video and the FieldDeinterlace one.

-I don't edit the videos but the new VCR has a sharp feature. Do you know a program that can do that? I'll compare that it to the feature of the VCR.

[Hackerpcs]

So what do you think about the capture card's quality?

[themaster1]

The man is happy with composite ^^ i'm out of this discussion.

[jagabo]

So what do you think about the capture card's quality?

It looks about typical for standard defintion composite capture.

[intracube]

No, all of the tapes are straight VHS and I think for VHS composite or S-video doesn't make difference.

For modern VCRs that have noise reduction/image enhancement, s-video should be used if available - even for VHS tapes.

-S-Video is not available by the VCR, I use composite video.

From http://www.cingularelectronics.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=185
Other Great Features:
- Coaxial Digital Audio Output
- S-Video/Component Video Output

-I use FieldDeinterlace because I think it's better from yadif.

From the examples you've posted, I don't think that's the case.
Other peoples comments online also suggest that 'FieldDeinterlace' isn't that good.

[Hackerpcs]

The man is happy with composite ^^ i'm out of this discussion.

S-video not available, what can I do?

So what do you think about the capture card's quality?

It looks about typical for standard defintion composite capture.

Could it be better? Don't misjudge by my username, I'm new in video/audio.

No, all of the tapes are straight VHS and I think for VHS composite or S-video doesn't make difference.

For modern VCRs that have noise reduction/image enhancement, s-video should be used if available - even for VHS tapes.

Didn't know that.

-S-Video is not available by the VCR, I use composite video.

From http://www.cingularelectronics.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=185
Other Great Features:
- Coaxial Digital Audio Output
- S-Video/Component Video Output

Misleading.

-I use FieldDeinterlace because I think it's better from yadif.

From the examples you've posted, I don't think that's the case.
Other peoples comments online also suggest that 'FieldDeinterlace' isn't that good.

I just notice the phenomenon you see in every video I encode and that's why I want to start using it instead. What do you mean "isn't that good"?


Also, can you suggest me a better capture card?

[jagabo]

The best thing you can do for VHS captures is to get an S-VHS deck with a line TBC and noise filtering, then capture s-video from that instead of composite. That is far more important than what capture card you use.

[Hackerpcs]

All the VHS's that I want to digitize are well captured and most are originals. Will it help much? Also in which price range is a S-VHS deck like that?

[jagabo]

All the VHS's that I want to digitize are well captured and most are originals. Will it help much? Also in which price range is a S-VHS deck like that?

Yes, a good S-VHS deck will make a difference. Especially if you are going to DVD. Used ones, and that's all that's available now, will cost you US$200 to $300.

FieldDeinterlace (you're talking about the Decomb package, right) is one of the poorer deinterlacers. Yadif is much better. If you want really good results look at one of the TempGaussMC variants like QTGMC(). Of course, there are always videos that are exceptions to the rule.

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/292642-Deinterlacing-Tips-and-Good-news-that-i-foun...=1#post1784755
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/295672-A-problem-for-video-experts?p=1809662&viewfu...=1#post1809662

If you're stuck capturing composite, at least use a dot crawl filter like CNR2. Also consider a Panasonic DVD recorder like the ES15 as a passthrough (about US$50, used). It has a TBC that will clean up most of the horizontal jitter in VHS tapes.

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/319420-Who-uses-a-DVD-recorder-as-a-line-TBC-and-wh...=1#post1983288

[intracube]

Other Great Features:
- Coaxial Digital Audio Output
- S-Video/Component Video Output

Misleading.

If your VCR doesn't have a s-video socket on the back, it probably sends the s-video signal through the SCART socket - check the manual; sometimes it needs to be enabled in the VCRs menu. You can probably use the adapter in your photo:
VCR SCART svideo > Adapter svideo > capture card svideo

What do you mean "isn't that good"?

The text on your xbox images looks blurred vertically, like a double image.

[Hackerpcs]

All the VHS's that I want to digitize are well captured and most are originals. Will it help much? Also in which price range is a S-VHS deck like that?

Yes, a good S-VHS deck will make a difference. Especially if you are going to DVD. Used ones, and that's all that's available now, will cost you US$200 to $300.

FieldDeinterlace (you're talking about the Decomb package, right) is one of the poorer deinterlacers. Yadif is much better. If you want really good results look at one of the TempGaussMC variants like QTGMC(). Of course, there are always videos that are exceptions to the rule.

I've had this VCR for 2 weeks, it's brand new. Can't I find a new one, only used ones in the case I sell my present one?

I just noticed the effect in the video you saw, that's why I used that. I use StaxRip as a front-end to x264 and has Yadif, FieldDeinterlace and TomsNoComp. I'll try the filter you said.

EDIT: Wow, TempGaussMC in your compare images look perfect, I'll give it a shot.

[jagabo]

If you're going to DVD you do not want to deinterlace. DVD players and TVs support interlaced video and will display it without the comb artifacts you see on the computer.

I don't think any S-VHS decks currently being made.

[intracube]

I've had this VCR for 2 weeks, it's brand new. Can't I find a new one, only used ones in the case I sell my present one?

I would keep your VCR for now, and try different filters/processing on your computer.

EDIT: Wow, TempGaussMC in your compare images look perfect, I'll give it a shot.

With mplayer, the first image is de-interlaced with 'onefield' (poor), no noise reduction, no sharpening:

Also with mplayer, the second uses yadif, high quality noise reduction (hqdn3d), and sharpening:

The original tape is over 10 years old, and I'm pretty sure it was recorded LP (longplay).

[Hackerpcs]

I'm not going DVD, I'm encoding to x264 at CBR 18, maximum 2500kbps bitrate for upload and keeping the default maximum 20k setting for archiving (final file usually ends up in ~9000kbps). I used the default Deinterlace method StaxRip had and used no Denoise. *noob question follows, be calm* What does exactly software denoise do?

[jagabo]

What does exactly software denoise do?

Reduces noise: http://www.neatvideo.com/examples.html

[Hackerpcs]

What does exactly software denoise do?

Reduces noise: http://www.neatvideo.com/examples.html

That's noise? It's called "snow" here in Greece. None of my VHS recordings have that issue, they're all clear recorded. In fact when I record NOW something from TV has the last issue:


I tried Neat Video on a sample from a tape and it's doing a job, even if the tape without filters is clear. My question is, is generally Neat Video a good a plug-in or in fact it reduces quality?

[jagabo]

Noise has many forms. All VHS recordings have a lot of noise -- like in the image you posted. All noise reducers end up removing at least some small details as well as noise. You have to decide for yourself how much noise reduction to use, if any. Neat video is one of the very best noise reducers. But it needs to sample the noise from your video before using it. Follow the instructions provided. Then adjust the strength to your liking.