CCE - not resizing the video stream and other issues

[Kooz]

Want to use CCE cos its faster and makes a better looking video.

But no matter HOW i send the info to it, it just wont resize the video. At least, not the horizontal. So i keep ending up with 720x480 movies :) including the letter box, so real stretched horizontal. Instead of 480x480 SVCDs.

Ripping - Smartripper
Frameserving - DVD2AVI
Creating project - TMPEGEnc
Convert project - VFAPIConv
Encode - CCE 2.62 SP

I've tried AVIsynth scripts but I get the same result.

Someone said here to use TMPEGEnc to do the resize, but how?

[Khizhiy]

Just make TMPGEnc or VirtualDub to resize the video.

[Kooz]

yes i get that but HOW???

you got icq?

[asifanwar]

1. SmartRipper as usual.
2. DVD2AVI as usual to make a 'd2v' file
3. drop the d2v file into TMPGEnc and set it accordingly.
eg for widescreen films, I use "4:3 Display" in the VIDEO tab (cos I have a 4:3 TV), and "16:9 Display" in the ADVANCED tab (note that I dont use any of the PAL or NTSC settings in this tab). In the VIDEO tab, set it for 720x480.
4. Now SAVE the project in TMPGEnc, as a 'tpr' file. Leave TMPGEnc open, but minimized.
5. Now use VFAPI to create a pseudoAVI of the 'tpr' project file
6. Drop THAT pseudoAVI into CCE.
7. In CCE, se it for "SAR1:1" cos TMPGEnc will do the resizing for you via the tpr via the pseudoAVI!

This works for me every time! I hope I understood your original question and that this helps.

[Kooz]

AAAAAAaaaaah SAR1:1!!!

yeah that'll work :) cheers dude

oh, questions about luminance etc when dvd2avi-ing ...

dvds seem very dark, so i boost the luminance by about 27, gain is 0

good idea? personal taste?

[asifanwar]

Glad to have helped!

interesting that you brighten the image as you DVD2AVI.....
I leave things as they are and I must confess my video looks exactly the same as the original. Maybe my appreciation of the quality is poorer than yours, but everybody I have shown my discs to could not tell which was the original and which was the rip.
BTW, are you makeing SVCDs? What kind of bitrates are you using?
I am making DVD-Rs and using bitrates of 3000-5500 depending on the length of the source (I use Robshot's method). With a bitrate of 4500 and the original AC3 6 channel sound file the DVD-R really is a pleasure to watch.
Would that make a difference?

[Khizhiy]

In CCE, do you choose the luminance level 0 to 255 or 16 to 235? The later one give brigther images and complies to DVD standards.

[stanwebber]

you need to match the opposite rgb scale in dvd2avi i.e. tv scale>0-255, pc scale>16-235. otherwise, the colorspace coversion will be off & you get either 0,0,0 or 31,31,31 black as the final result(surprisingly, this wastes a substantial amount of bits). purportedly, cce performs the colorspace conversion anyway regardless of whether you choose 0-255 so it's best to go pc scale>16-235

[KoalaBear]

tv scale>0-255, pc scale>16-235.

Actually it's just the opposite. PC = 0-255, TV = 16-235.

[Kooz]

i'm creating svcds cos i'm not rich enough (after a very good snowboarding season) so shell out on the dvd writer. . .just yet anyway :)

ran the first big test this evening, and BEAUTIFUL quality for svcd.

luminance is the only thing now. . .if i dont pump it, it's still a little dark IMHO

what stage is the best to do it? i didnt notice if i could change it in tmpegenc ...

and how about audio normilization?

[stanwebber]

that's just my point. you need to match the OPPOSITE values or the colorspace conversion will get fucked up. the rgb range as it exist on the dvd is 16-235. selecting tv scale in dvd2avi will pass thru the range unaltered, but then if you select a range of 16-235 in your encoder the colorspace will be compressed to 31-216. tv scale>0-255 will leave the rgb range untouched. pc scale>16-235 will also work, but the color scale is converted to 0-255 & back again. here is a diagram: www.geocities.com/stanwebber/dvd/2-1.html

[Kooz]

so which is the better color scale to use through the process? 0-255 or 16-235?

[KoalaBear]

the rgb range as it exist on the dvd is 16-235. selecting tv scale in dvd2avi will pass thru the range unaltered, but then if you select a range of 16-235 in your encoder the colorspace will be compressed to 31-216.

I don't think so, stan.

First, no "RGB range" exists on the DVD. The colorspace used is YCbCr. Second, if you were to convert YCbCr to RGB and back again, that conversion would occur without loss.

What this means is that if you were to pass the values from the DVD directly to the encoder, it wouldn't matter which luma scale you used because "16" is "16" in either case. But if the image is processed en route to the encoder in some way (scaling, filtering, etc.) this may shift some of the luma values outside the NTSC gamut, which you correct by telling the encoder to use a luma scale of 16-235 when the data is converted back to YCbCr.

[stanwebber]

what you say may or may not be accurate, but it is complete gibberish & completely useless to anyone needing help. my recommendations, although crudely simplified, are based on practical experience & backed up with extensive testing. if you select tv scale in dvd2avi then specify a luminance range of 16-235 in cce the colorscale will be unnaturally compressed. try this experiment(i did): encode the same project 3 times in a row(inputing output from previous pass) using all combinations of dvd2avi colorspace & cce luminance settings. if you select the combination you are recommending you will find after each pass the rgb value for black will be shifted progressively further & further away from 16. if you do as i suggest, black stays at 16 no matter how many times you feed the same project thru. why do i even ******* bother to help people when all i get is sniped at for my efforts. village idiot....no kidding

[Kooz]

erm check my guide out it rulez :) tell me what you think stan.

its a meltdown of what i've discovered here, although it's a work in progress.

i dont know much about the whole color thing, so i THINK i set it as you told it here.

works good for me - you'd have to be pretty fussy to notice or care about the difference when you're making SVCDs though, as they aint ever gonna be dvd quality.

bring on the next new standard, i say :)

[KoalaBear]

what you say may or may not be accurate, but it is complete gibberish & completely useless to anyone needing help.

It's really very simple: if you code for PC display, choose 0-255. If you code for TV display, choose 16-235.

encode the same project 3 times in a row(inputing output from previous pass) using all combinations of dvd2avi colorspace & cce luminance settings. if you select the combination you are recommending you will find after each pass the rgb value for black will be shifted progressively further & further away from 16.

If you make an MPEG of an MPEG of an MPEG, the luma values are going to shift simply because each encoding pass involves an approximation of the source. It's like making a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy -- the third-generation document will barely resemble the original.

if you do as i suggest, black stays at 16 no matter how many times you feed the same project thru.

Unless you're coding NTSC color bars and viewing the output on a waveform monitor you can't possibly know this to be true. PCs and TVs operate in different colorspaces and have different gamma profiles; you can't judge what the TV image will look like based on how the picture looks on your PC or vice versa.

why do i even ******* bother to help people when all i get is sniped at for my efforts. village idiot....no kidding

Is this a rhetorical question? Because (a) pointing out where your reasoning is flawed isn't a personal attack, and (b) it doesn't really help anyone to be given advice based on a misunderstanding of the facts.

[cammy3575]

How long have some of you been doing this.It seems like your changing way to much to turn out a movie.I've used that tmpgenc and I thank it sucks.I'm using 3 programs Smartripper to rip the dvd.Then I use DVD2SVCD which is the best program I've found so far.And I stumbled upon a good version of CCE.Which I thank is the key to turn out a dvd quality movie on to an svcd.When I use DVD2SVCD I dont change a thing .It takes me about 8 hours to do a movie.I use Nero to burn it to a disc play it in my pioneer DV343.Looks just like dvd.The key is finding the right CCE to use with DVD2SVCD.I know other people who are trying to find the right CCE and no luck.Or it says it will take to long on their computer.Processer speed will also probably make a difference on how long it wil take.I have a 1.5 with a pentium 4 O.S. is windows xp.I hope maybe this will help some of you.Let me know if you have any feedback.

[stanwebber]

yes, i'm coding NTSC color bars and viewing the output on a waveform monitor. now will that ******* shut you up? if you'd just experiment you'd see that however uninformed my explaination may be, my practical observations are solid & not mistaken. if you select tv scale in dvd2avi & 16-235 luminance in cce your color range will be unnaturally compressed. i may not have the expertise to explain why, but i have eyes & can spot the wide shifts of pure black(letterboxing) on both my pc monitor & tv. shit, it's as plain as day & night

[cammy3575]

Calm down dude its just a movie.

[homerpez]

Folks, I don't know about this...

I've used DVD2AVI, I've capped my own stuff using the Huffy codec...

Basically I've never once looked at what I was doing regarding color space. Every single thing I've every done looks identical on TV as the source would appear on the TV. Does any of this matter? Really?

Yes, I'll shut up now.

[KoalaBear]

yes, i'm coding NTSC color bars and viewing the output on a waveform monitor. now will that ******* shut you up?

Unfortunately not.

if you'd just experiment you'd see that however uninformed my explaination may be, my practical observations are solid & not mistaken.

Do you have any idea how that sounds? That even if you don't know what you're talking about, whatever you pull out of your ass is a fact?

i may not have the expertise to explain why, but i have eyes & can spot the wide shifts of pure black(letterboxing) on both my pc monitor & tv.

Boo Hoo. If DVD2AVI causes you problems, find a different tool.

[stanwebber]

i'm tired of this facade of discussing a problem no one cares about, just **** off & be done with this. if you reply to this response i'll just tell you to **** off again

[KoalaBear]

Horrors! I'm quaking in my boots at the threat.

[stanwebber]

if you reply to this response i'll just tell you to **** off again

**** off koala. i wont take your bait

[KoalaBear]

Whoops -- you already did.

[stanwebber]

if you reply to this response i'll just tell you to **** off again

**** off koala