Experiencing lag on intense visual effects on LCD TV

[dzsoul]

I have Samsung 32" LCD TV FullHD with home-theater dvd player (along with the package) and 6 speakers.

I didn't experience this but only recently. I now experience lag on intense visual effects scenes of the movies i watch on my lcd tv.

When extreme visual effects are shown, the video lags but after that it just goes back to normal...but it happens to every scene of the movies i watch with superb effects....

Why is this and how can i fix this?

[DereX888]

No, you can't fix this.



...I wonder why my plasma never had such "extra FX"

[Seeker47]

No, you can't fix this.

...I wonder why my plasma never had such "extra FX"

Isn't this the same issue as fast motion in live sports broadcasts . . . which the LCD mfr.s claim is being addressed by their 120hz. (and now 240hz.) models ? I haven't compared or shopped for those, so I can't say if this is just hype or a now-corrected problem.

[DereX888]

No, you can't fix this.

...I wonder why my plasma never had such "extra FX"

Isn't this the same issue as fast motion in live sports broadcasts . . . which the LCD mfr.s claim is being addressed by their 120hz. (and now 240hz.) models ? I haven't compared or shopped for those, so I can't say if this is just hype or a now-corrected problem.

Yup.

Manufacturers always claim many things, and people with sharp eyes will always notice this "lag" on LCDs no matter what manufacturers will claim.
LCD was not designed for displaying motion pictures (lack of black, lag...) and I doubt it will ever technologically advance to become good for viewing motion pictures at all. Most likely it will be replaced by some new type of displays in rather very near feature, hopefully before my plasma dies

[Abas-Avara]

TV's are becoming like computers. The traditional TV was always standard and nice colors but now there are big differents between the colors etc.

[KBeee]

Is this while watching broadcast TV or watching DVD's?

[edDV]

I have Samsung 32" LCD TV FullHD with home-theater dvd player (along with the package) and 6 speakers.

I didn't experience this but only recently. I now experience lag on intense visual effects scenes of the movies i watch on my lcd tv.

When extreme visual effects are shown, the video lags but after that it just goes back to normal...but it happens to every scene of the movies i watch with superb effects....

Why is this and how can i fix this?

If you are sure this was doing better in the past and just changed recently, you need to check for changes in your DVD player or TV settings.

What do you mean by "lag"? Is this object blur? double image? image freeze?

What is the connection HDMI? Analog component?

How do you have the DVD player output set? 480i? 480p? 720p? 1080i? 1080p?

Did you recently change any of the TV settings like noise reduction? Some Samsung models allow different settings by input.

If you switch to a TV sports broadcast, do you see the same lag?

[dzsoul]

huh? why? what is causing this?

[dzsoul]

not broadcast but watching through dvd player.

what i mean by lag is that when the movie comes to the part where there is intense or very nice special effects happening, the movie pauses frame-by-frame for about 2-4 seconds (when the outstanding visual effects takes place).

whether it be set to 480p or 1080p, same problem.

the connection is HDMI.

i dunno what is image freeze, but i think that's it.

i also don't know if some of you guys get what i mean, like "people with sharp eyes will notice this lag..." -well this is not the point because i think my problem is different from what you mean.

[edDV]

Seems like the DVD player decoder can't handle the data spike.

Is this a store bought DVD or a copy?

It wouldn't be a TV problem.

[dzsoul]

i don't have a dvd movie with superb special effects scenes thus i have not tried it with DVD if there is lag...

i have also these xvid movies which aren't usually showing any lag with extreme visual effects but recently i have this problem.

so what can i do?

[FulciLives]

Just to be clear ... to make sure we understand you fully ... you are saying that this only happens with XviD and DivX movies?

How are you playing back these movies? Via your DVD player? If so are they burned on CD discs or DVD discs?

If they are on CD disc try putting them on a DVD disc and see if that doesn't help. The reason is a DVD spins faster than a CD so it can better handle scenes with very high bitrates.

Also if possible try another method (even if only as a test) of playing back the XviD / DivX files. Maybe try with your computer hooked up to the TV or another DVD player with XviD / DivX capabilities etc.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[dzsoul]

How are you playing back these movies? Via your DVD player? If so are they burned on CD discs or DVD discs?

i play divx/xvid movies via usb flash disk to DVD player.

you are saying that this only happens with XviD and DivX movies?

i have real DVD's (not divx burnt to dvd) but these movies don't have intense special effects so i can't try.

[vhelp]

with all due respects, it seems we have the actual cause, XviD. But, it seems that you have *some* of these xvids where the special effects were not taken into consideration (during temporal) filter application. And you are noticing this error just now--with these problem xvids. So you have good xvid (videos that that not exhibit problems) up till now, where you have (are noticing) some xvids (or divx) with problems..some good videos some bad..seems that you LCD is fine, but some of your videos are not.

You see, thats what we want to hear and know about--the truth..the origin..etc.

Did you make these yourself or D/L'ed ?

It sounds to me like these (xvid) encodes are the products of (poorly configured) temporal filtering, a process for aiding compression and smaller filesize. When people incorporate this application, (particulary those who do not notice it at first on their display devices or plainly inexperienced at it) its usually for the purpose of fitting on a give media or filesize. Inexperienced (xvid) encoders (that include filtering) will not factor special (scene) cases and consiquentially the whole video is encoded. You'll get good video in most cases, but in those special scenes, you (the video) will reveal the weakness. It seems you are finding this out, now.

Problem solved. Either make (or D/L) better quality videos and your problems will go away.

-vhelp 5212

[jagabo]

i play divx/xvid movies via usb flash disk to DVD player... the movie pauses frame-by-frame for about 2-4 seconds

There are a few possible problems:

1) The bitrate during the problematic scenes is too high for the player to handle.

2) The flash drive you are using is too slow. In combination with bitrate spikes in the material this can cause stuttering like you are seeing (the player can't get the video data from the flash drive fast enough).

3) The video uses some Divx/Xvid features that your player doesn't support. The usual suspects: GMC, QPEL, Packed bitstream...

[DereX888]

i play divx/xvid movies via usb flash disk to DVD player... the movie pauses frame-by-frame for about 2-4 seconds

There are a few possible problems:

2) The flash drive you are using is too slow. In combination with bitrate spikes in the material this can cause stuttering like you are seeing (the player can't get the video data from the flash drive fast enough)

3) The video uses some Divx/Xvid features that your player doesn't support. The usual suspects: GMC, QPEL, Packed bitstream...

These 2 are most plausible causes IMHO

[dzsoul]

i have been using xvids/divx several months ago but it's only until now when i experience this.

these xvids/divx are DLed and they play correctly on my computer.

2) The flash drive you are using is too slow. In combination with bitrate spikes in the material this can cause stuttering like you are seeing (the player can't get the video data from the flash drive fast enough).

i have 2 flash drives i have been using since i bought the TV and it's only recently that i experience this problem.

3) The video uses some Divx/Xvid features that your player doesn't support. The usual suspects: GMC, QPEL, Packed bitstream...

i have the movie G-Force, and when the fireworks bursting scene takes place, the problem occurs and the video has No Qpel, No GMC, Default Matrix and no packed bitstream.

and if it's about the bitrate which could be too high for the dvd player, what can i do?

but i have also videos with higher bitrate than the others, but the lower bitrate with a scene with superb visual effects lags compared to the other one with no problems....

[jagabo]

Use Bitrate viewer to view the peak bitrates. That's where your problem is. You're fix is to get a new player that can handle higher bitrates or re-encode the videos with a lower peak bitrate.

[DereX888]

Use Bitrate viewer to view the peak bitrates. That's where your problem is. You're fix is to get a new player that can handle higher bitrates or re-encode the videos with a lower peak bitrate.

He said he play them from a USB flash drive, right?
Perhaps it is too slow in transferring the data at high bitrate scenes?

I don't know are there any speed ratings for USB flash drives, but when you buy standard SD flash media they have "speed grades" (or whatever it is called) seen as just a digit in a circle near SD logo (EXAMPLE HERE).
When I bought first 8GB "grade 2" miniSD card for my PocketPC phone I couldn't even record 640x480 cellphone video on it, (which I dont know what bitrate exactly it is at, but I'm sure it is very low since it is so highly compressed and crappy) because "grade 2" data transfer rate couldn't keep up. I had to find "grade 4" SD card to be able to record to SD without skipping and other annoyances.
So, all I'm saying - maybe its not the player, but the USB flash drive that's at fault... (and of course it still could be the player itself as well).

[jagabo]

Use Bitrate viewer to view the peak bitrates. That's where your problem is. You're fix is to get a new player that can handle higher bitrates or re-encode the videos with a lower peak bitrate.

He said he play them from a USB flash drive, right?
Perhaps it is too slow in transferring the data at high bitrate scenes?

I already suggested that could be a problem. He replied:

i have been using xvids/divx several months ago but it's only until now when i experience this.

Which seems to imply he thinks the speed of the flash drives isn't the problem. Of course, it could be that he only recently started getting these high peak bitrate files. In which case the drive speed could still be the problem.

[dzsoul]

i used the bitrate viewer and i checked on the peak points. the peak points match the parts when the problem occurs.

thus, having high bitrate is the cause.

He said he play them from a USB flash drive, right?
Perhaps it is too slow in transferring the data at high bitrate scenes?
I don't know are there any speed ratings for USB flash drives,.....

i also dunno if usb flash drives/memory sticks have these 'speed grades' but don't they have this usb 2.0?

how will i know if my usb is 2.0? and the dvd player usb port is 2.0?

my dvd player is samsung HT-Z210 and i dunno if its usb port is 2.0.

[jagabo]

i also dunno if usb flash drives/memory sticks have these 'speed grades' but don't they have this usb 2.0?

how will i know if my usb is 2.0? and the dvd player usb port is 2.0?

my dvd player is samsung HT-Z210 and i dunno if its usb port is 2.0.

The speed of the USB port can be a problem too. But just because a flash drive uses a USB 2.0 port doesn't mean you can access the data at USB 2.0 speeds. The flash memories are often much slower than the port.

Determining the speed of the port on the DVD player can be difficult. DVD manufacturers are often vague about whether the port is USB 1.2 or 2.0. They will often say something like "USB port, compatible with USB 2.0 devices." That doesn't mean it's a USB 2.0 port. All USB 1.2 ports are "compatible" with USB 2.0 devices, but they read the data at USB 1.2 speeds.

Here's what you can do: With a known USB 2.0 port on your computer copy a large file (say, 1 GB) to the flash drive. Copy that file to a fast hard drive on your computer. Time how long it takes. From that you can determine the speed of the drive. A fast USB 2.0 flash drive will run 20 to 30 megabytes per second (30 to 50 seconds to copy a 1 GB file). A USB 1.2 drive will get a less than 1 megabyte per second (more than 1000 seconds to copy a 1 GB file). Somewhere in between would be a "slow" USB 2.0 drive. If you get speeds in the 20 to 30 MB/s range the flash drive isn't the problem.

Also, try burning your problematic AVI files to a DVDR and see if they play better from there.

[DereX888]

FWIW, USB 2.0 in theory is 480Mbps (or so, don't remember exact details), so even assuming it is only half that in "real life envorinment" with all Windoze's own bottlenecks, it still should be able to transfer at 200Mbps or so. There is no way an xvid file would reach such high bitrate at any peak, not even half that, not even quarter that.

The problem is the transfer rate of data being read from the flash memory inside the USB flash drive. That's where the bottleneck happens, I am almost certain. It doesn't matter the flash drive is plugged into USB 2.0 port capable of high bitrate transfers, when the data cannot be read fast enough from the flash memory itself inside the USB drive.

On the other hand, it could be the USB port of the player too. Maybe it is just USB1.1?

Also, try burning your problematic AVI files to a DVDR and see if they play better from there.

That's right. Best test. If it will play fine, he'll know player's decoding chipset is capable of those "high bitrate peaks" and that's what's most important.
Player's USB port may or may not be USB 2.0, USB flash drive may or may not be fast enough - which both won't matter, since either one gives him same problem.

[jagabo]

The problem is the transfer rate of data being read from the flash memory inside the USB flash drive. That's where the bottleneck happens, I am almost certain.

Isn't that what we've been saying?

On the other hand, it could be the USB port of the player too. Maybe it is just USB1.1? ;)

That's what my whole last post was about. Determining if the port is 1.1 or 2.0. A 1.1 drive will be limited to less than 1 MB/s (USB 1.1 has theoretical bitrate of 1.5 MB/s but real world throughput is about half of that). Of course, a USB 2.0 port and USB 2.0 flash drive with very slow flash memory could read that low but I haven't seen any that slow for a long time.

Also, try burning your problematic AVI files to a DVDR and see if they play better from there.

That's right. Best test. If it will play fine, he'll know player's decoding chipset is capable of those "high bitrate peaks" and that's what's most important.

Some older players will choke on bitrates as low as ~3000 kbps. The most the player can read off of disc is about 10,000 kbps. My Philips 5990 can play up to about 20,000 kbps CBR off of a flash drive. It's not likely his files have peaks over 10,000 kbps since the player is limited standard definition files.