Instant freeze when trying to capture from DV camcorder

[franky68]

Hi all,

my first post and a problem right away

I recently build a new computer which is absolutely stable. However if I try to copy a movie via firewire from my dv recorder to the computer the pc instantly freezes and needs a reset.

However there is one program "WinDV" which manages to transfer the movies to the computer. Apart from that I tried Windows Movie Maker, Cyberlink, Pinnacle, Magix, Exsate DV Capture and a few others and they all crash. Now I could go on with WinDV but its not very comfortable. Beside having these crashes really worries me so I am trying to find the cause.

I did not overclock my computer and as said, apart from the capture everything is pretty stable.

I already tried quite a few things to figgure out the cause but to no avail.

1. Different PCIe slots
2. Different capture software
3. Removing the driver (firewire and cam) and having it reinstall from windows
4. Resetting the BIOS to failsafe defaults
5. Removing other cards/devices
6. Set up a fresh Windows XP (SP2) installation to make sure its not related to Win7 or a messed up system
7. Different (supposedly compatible) drivers for the firewire card and dv cam
8. Disabling hardware acceleration (under WinXP)
9. Different preview techniques for the capture software (overlay, vmr9, disabled)

Everything seems fine so far. Yet when I start the capture everything freezes.

1. The device manager doesnt report any errors
2. The firewire card and camera are detected
3. I can fast forward, rewind and stop the cam from the computer (unless i hit play)
4. Captures via svideo/composite are working
5. All drivers including BIOS and graphic card are uptodate
6. After the freeze there is nothing in the event log that indicates a problem
7. Other programs using graphic overlay are working fine
8. The files captured with WinDV are editable
9. WinDV works and others crash without touching the cable/cam. So I dont expect a slack joint.

I hope I did not forget anything since I already really tried lots of things to get down to the problem.

Unfortunately I do not have a different firewire or graphiccard working with this computer nor a second camcorder to try. But on my previous computer (totally broken now) the cam was working fine with most capture software I tested.

Gigabyte EP43-UD3L (Bios F5)
Intel Q9550
4 GB Ram (Corsair 2x4096-8500C5C)
Zotac GeForce 9800 GT Eco
Windows 7 Release Candidate (Build 7100)
alternative Windows XP Pro (SP2)
Sony DCR-TRV8E
Exsys EX-16450 PCIe Firewire (TI Chipset)

I would be most gratefull if anyone has an idea about what else to try to maybe is aware of a problem like this.

Best regards
Frank

[redwudz]

FireWire is a data transfer, not really a capture. It should put an exact copy of your camcorder tape contents onto your hard drive. Just about any PC out there should be able to do the transfer as the CPU load is fairly low.

Have you tried a different FireWire cable? Different camcorder? That would rule out those two possibilities. What about the hard drive you are transferring to? Plenty of room, drive is working properly?

Or the card may have failed or is starting to fail. WinDV is a good program. I use it for all my FireWire transfers. Which program you use for transfer should have no bearing on the quality, as it's a 1:1 data transfer. Once you get it on the HDD, you can use any editing/encoding program you want.

Other more remote possibilities are your antivirus or a firewall program, but both should have alerted you to a problem.

How do you do your transfer? Do you plug in the cable, then start the PC, then turn on the camera? In what order?

But others here may have some better ideas.

And welcome to our forums.

[franky68]

Hi redwuds,

thanks a lot for your suggestions and your welcome

Yes, WinDV might be a good program. But I am lazy and would prefer to copy right from the editing software. Beside most of all the crashes really worry me and I want to get rid of them (or at least be able to explain them).

No, I did not try different cables and camcorders. As said, I dont suspect the cable as I can switch between those two apps without even touching the cable and one crashes, the other not. Or is it possible that one application needs a better/healthier cable than the other?

Unfortunately I do not have access to a second camcorder or firewire device for a crosstest and wouldnt even know where to borrow one.

Regarding the firewall/antivirus: normally are both active but Im just back from another crash after trying to copy something having both disabled. So they aint the cause either.

I usually have the computer turned on, plug in the cable and turn on the camera. But with zillions of reboots I am doing this days I already had all possible combinations.

With a frustrated yet hopefull sigh
Frank

[JohnnyMalaria]

There are some DV applications that are notorious for screwing up others. Specifically those from Nero, Roxio and Pinnacle that install "useful" utilities that run in the background. So, try uninstalling all video apps and try Windows Movie Maker. If it works, put the other apps back on one at a time until something breaks. Then you'll have your culprit.

[franky68]

Hi Johnny,

as written I already tried a fresh installation of WinXP without any other software and captured using Windows Movie Maker, which instantly crashed as soon as my finger came near the "play" button

[nic2k4]

Has your computer received any updates from microsoft? Have you checked the knowledge base there for a patch? Like this one for SP3:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/955356

[franky68]

The XP SP2 installation is out of the box with no updates but the Win7 installation has all updates released until today.

I checked the KB but did not find anything that describes this problem. The patch you listed applies to SP3 and only to a freezing system during boot-time caused by a firewire harddisk.

[filmboss80]

A couple of questions...

Are you capturing to the same hard drive that has your Windows operating system running on it? (It's usually best to capture to a separate hard drive -- one that runs at 7200rpm or higher.) Is the hard drive formatted to NTFS or FAT-32 file system? (It's usually best to have NTFS.) Is your virus software and firewall running in the background during capture attempts? (It might help to temporarily disable them until your captures are finished.)

WinDv is simple, but solid. It does not take a lot of extra effort to go ahead and capture that way (since it works for you); then import the captured clips into your editor of choice. I often prefer it over other capturing methods, and don't find that it slows down the work-flow. On the contrary -- WinDv tends to make the process faster, since it is less inclined to cause freeze-ups that require rebooting.

[franky68]

Hi filmboss,

thanks for your answer. Yes, I would capture to the same drive as the system is installed. But the freezes even happen before I get to actually copy anything.

When I start up the capture tool and it shows a still of the current position or (if it doesnt) I press "play" it already goes. So its way before anything gets written onto that drive.

The drive itself is formated NTFS and has 7200 rpm.

Normally the antivirus and firewall are running but of course I also tried to disable them, which didnt make a change.

Youre already the second (one in another forum) to tell me how great WinDV is. I was also told that it wouldnt alter the video - which on the opposite means other programs do. Is this true and if so: is it possible this modification process (whatever is done) are causing the crashes?

[filmboss80]

WinDv captures pure DV-AVI as it is on the camcorder, the same way you'd transfer a file from a floppy disc to the hard drive. (Don't let the physical appearance of DV tape fool you--it is a digital recording, not analog, provided you use the firewire connection. However, the transfer speed is based on real-time tape playback.) No conversions, no encoding, no alterations to the original.

[franky68]

So this means all capture programs only copy the pure unmodified stream and the (pre-)processing cant be the cause of the freezes?

Drats, it did sound like a good idea to explain why one programm crashes while the others dont.

[filmboss80]

I was speaking in terms of WinDV and the video signal that comes from a miniDV camcorder. The case may be different with other sources and other format settings.

[edDV]

So this means all capture programs only copy the pure unmodified stream and the (pre-)processing cant be the cause of the freezes?

Drats, it did sound like a good idea to explain why one programm crashes while the others dont.

Other programs can be set for simple DV format capture (DV stream to a DV-AVI file), others can be set to attempt encode on the fly to MPeg or other formats. Make sure your capture menu is set to capture to DV-AVI.

Capture+encoding on the fly is CPU intensive. Realtime encoding has compromise. Encode quality will be better if done as a separate step non-realtime.

If you do want to encode as you capture, get the simple file capture working first before you attempt an encode.

[franky68]

Well, it would have been nice...

I tried setting the capture to DV format to disable pre-processing and the crashes still occured. I also removed one memory bank (you never know) and tested with Adobe Premiere Elements 8 - both without success.

I am really running out of ideas now. Is there any hardware/firewire guru who might has another suggestion?

Regards
Frank

[franky68]

In between a new firewire cable arrived. Using this the computer crashes as before. So I guess I can assume the crashes are not caused by the cable.

Is it possible the firewire card itself is able to control the cam (rewind, forward etc.) but crashes if the camera is transfering movie data? If so are there different transfer modes? Because WinDV successfully copies (I tried a 1 hour movie without freeze) all other crash the very second the transfer is starting.

[filmboss80]

This is the reason why we all love WinDV so much. Despite whatever quirks your system has, you can successfully capture with it. Look at all the time you would have saved if you had just gone with that in the first place.

At some point, you're just going to have to decide to go with what works. How much effort does it really take to capture with one utility and simply import the avi files into your editing project?

Whenever I am working with a DV source, I CHOOSE to capture with WinDV, despite having other options, because I know it won't give me trouble. I may also do an intermediate step of trimming in VirtualDub (Direct Stream Copy only), then import the avi files into Premiere for editing. No sweat ever.

[edDV]

If you don't know, WinDV is a simple control panel over DirectShow. Nothing to break* if DirectShow is working.


* Other than buffering issues on slow or low memory hardware.