Quality loss from D V -AVI to other formats

[santolina]

Hi,
Im trying to convert a DV-AVI created in in windows movie maker(Just a test to see the out come)into a WMV format-WMV9 and the qualities terrible,The original file was 5.0GIG avi created in aftereffects and normally from that I good quaity changeing the format to most of the popular output files MP4 MOV WMV.
I also note that Movie maker compressed the 5 GIG file down to 688 MB DV-AVI,
Im using Super for now with the DV-Avi so could this be to do with multi pass and threads,
You ll have to forgive me if the "Jargon i"s somewhat imprescise but Im just moving up to this level of understanding.

Pete

[edDV]

WMM can output to DV-AVI. Look under "other" in the export menu.

If you just cut edit in WMM there should be no loss. It just repeats frames to the output. If you filter or add effects there is a loss.

[santolina]

Hello.
Thanks for your interest,
Thats what i am doing,
I am selecting DV-AVi in the show me more choices box and the out come is ,A 5.GIG AVI(from After Effects) imput file file is comming out at 650 MBs,and the qualities Terrible,I must be doing somthing very wrong then??



Pete

[Safesurfer]

What settings are you using to output to WMV, there's obviously some serious compression going on there?

[jagabo]

DV AVI supports only a fixed bitrate and frame size. There is no way you converted from a 5 GB DV AVI to a 0.65 GB DV AVI unless you cut out 80 percent of the running time. Open your files with MediaInfo or GSpot to determine exactly what you have.

[santolina]

Hello.
Heres the info from the container using Media info(Thanks for that).
from original avi 5 gig : I:\Documents and Settings\PETER\Desktop\The See Saw Rufus and Ricky at play final no sound.avi
Format : AVI at 218 Mbps
Length : 5 GiB for 3mn 20s 0ms

Video #0 : RGB at 217 Mbps
Aspect : 640 x 480 (1.333) at 29.500 fps
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And now from movie maker compressed as DV-AVI

General : I:\Documents and Settings\PETER\Desktop\MovieTest 1.avi
Format : AVI at 28.9 Mbps
Length : 688 MiB for 3mn 19s 966ms

Video #0 : Digital Video at 28.8 Mbps
Aspect : 720 x 480 (1.500) at 29.970 fps

Audio #0 : PCM at 1 536 Kbps
Infos : 2 channels, 48.0 KHz

Hope I ve read this correctly for you.


Pete

[santolina]

Hi again,

same subject only this time sound added in W movie maker(Wav)

: I:\Documents and Settings\PETER\Desktop\The See Saw final edit 22 July.avi
Format : AVI at 28.9 Mbps
Length : 688 MiB for 3mn 20s 100ms

Video #0 : Digital Video at 28.8 Mbps
Aspect : 720 x 480 (1.500) at 29.970 fps

Audio #0 : PCM at 1 536 Kbps
Infos : 2 channels, 48.0 KHz

pete

[jagabo]

Your 5 GB file was uncompressed RGB in an AVI container. The DV AVI file does indeed appear to be DV in an AVI container and the file size looks about right 688 MB. The 640x480 image was probably stretched to fill the 720x480 frame. The quality of this should have been fairly close to the quality of the uncompressed source. Small details (tiny text, for example) would have been blurred slightly by the stretch. Is that the file you said was messed up? Or only the WMV file created from it? WMV can range from very good to very bad depending on the bitrate.

[Safesurfer]

Heres the info from the container using Media info(Thanks for that).
from original avi 5 gig : I:\Documents and Settings\PETER\Desktop\The See Saw Rufus and Ricky at play final no sound.avi
Format : AVI at 218 Mbps
Length : 5 GiB for 3mn 20s 0ms

Video #0 : RGB at 217 Mbps
Aspect : 640 x 480 (1.333) at 29.500 fps

I'm confused, that does not indicate a DV-AVI file, looks like an uncompressed RGB AVI!

[santolina]

Hi Safe surfer,
Thats the original AVI,sorry

Pete

[santolina]

Hi Jagabo.
The text was smallish but in vector format so it should have been ok??
The quality is way off the original version including the text.
This is the file that is a result of putting a 5 GIG AVI file through Movie maker.All examples are really crappy copies,mp4,mov and so on.
NormallyI would use Aftereffects for all post work (Sound etc)and out put quality has allways been aceptable,any mp4.mov wmvs from that have als been aceptable.
So Am I right in thinking that DV-AVU does compress??

At this point Ive reached my total level of understanding and will probably shoot myself with a bananna

Pete

[jagabo]

The text was smallish but in vector format so it should have been ok??

Once you've made an RGB or DV video the text is no longer vector format, it is raster format.

The quality is way off the original version including the text.
This is the file that is a result of putting a 5 GIG AVI file through Movie maker.All examples are really crappy copies,mp4,mov and so on.

WMM is a crappy video editor but it can produce decent output.

So Am I right in thinking that DV-AVU does compress??

DV AVI would be compressed relative to your RGB source. If you are using colored text on a colored background the color subsampling would also cause a lot of blurring of small text.

Maybe you should post some before and after sample images. Or, even better, videos.

[santolina]

Jagabo.
Thanks for the Vector info.
Should I be useing Cmyk colour or indexed?
Ill post some examples later on,videos.Whats the max file size allowed,cant find any info.

Pete

[jagabo]

As an example a 640x480 RGB frame with small text looks like:



Resizing to a PAL 720x576 frame size would blur it a bit like this:



Save as PAL DV (with 4:2:0 color subsampling) would make it look like this:

[edDV]

You would be better setting your After Effects project to 720x480 and 4:3 aspect ratio. Do you also have Adobe Premiere? Premiere would be more reliable for editing and format conversion. Set your Premiere and After Effects to equal project settings (e.g. uncompressed 640x480 or uncompressed 720x480). You could output MP4, MOV or WMV from Premiere. Or, you could edit and output uncompressed from Premiere and then use Super for format conversion. There is no need to use DV as an intermediate format.

[santolina]

Great,

Thanks for the examples,Forgive me PAL,it works in europe??because Im from there and distribution is also for europe.


Pete

[edDV]

Great,

Thanks for the examples,Forgive me PAL,it works in europe??because Im from there and distribution is also for europe.


Pete

For PAL you should be using 576 lines (720x576 or 768x576 for square pixels).

That explains a lot if you were sending 640x480 to WMM and outputting to 720x576. Vertical scaling will destroy text quality.

Your media info data above showed you were exporting 720x480. That would cause vertical scaling for PAL display.

[jagabo]

Oh, yes, I forgot to mention this. In the Netherlands you should be using 720x576, 25 fps, PAL DV. Unless you're making something specifically for NTSC countries.

[santolina]

Thanks again
How embarrassing!I was exporting the DV-AVI from movie maker in NTSC,
Ill resize the original and run a test amd Im sure this is the solution to improving the output.

Pete

[edDV]

I mean your AE project should be 720x576 or 768x576 so that no vertical scaling is necessary.

[santolina]

Hello again.
Yes I picked up on that thanks,
I must say to you that Ive been haveing huge problems with After Effects.the audio suddenly dissapeared and i lost that function(thats why Ive been messing around In movie maker)
Well thanks to you its came back on line as soon as I entered the adjustments that you recomended,so I millon thanks for that,you cant imagine just what a pain its been to finish this job on time.
I think Ive been on every forum in the world looking for the solution and whereas every ones been really helpfull,well no fix untill now.
Strange thought that its changed from PAL to NTSC. because Ive used the program for years up untill last week and then it laost audio,I lack a great deal of knowledge in this field but Im learning fast and this forum has been absolutly fantastic,what a huge ammount of talent all in one web site
Thanks to you again,Im sure Ill be back.have a nice weekend.

Pete