DMREH50-Crashes creating titles/Erasing discs on finalization

[Snaque]

Lately has been crashing & rebooting when inputting new written titles on (pre-finalized) self recorded DVD's (conversions of VHS tape collection), often have to do this multiple times before I can complete the operation . I have also been getting this when creating a DVD with data straight from the HD, which as you can imagine is supremely frustrating(!!! ). In 3 cases, when finalizing a full DVD, unit has crashed and after reboot, the DVD has been wiped clean of all data (a "coaster" ), particularly annoying since the original VHS was already discarded. I now have to hold on to the VHS tapes until I'm certain of finalization, but this does not help if the disc has been recorded from bits on the HD that have already been deleted. Anyone having similar problems?(solutions? ) . Note that I last (accidentally) wiped & reformatted the HD about 4 months ago, so defrag should not be an issue here. Comments, ideas, observations requested....

[jjeff]

All your Panny needs is a simple spindle cleaning.
http://club.cdfreaks.com/f106/fixing-your-panny-when-theres-fault-lens-cleaning-doesnt-help-210507/
Do this and it should be as good as new and say good buy to any more coasters.

[lacywest]

Only one type of DVD-R works for me ... the TY value pack ... they never mess up ... other brands that are marked for 16X ... mess up

[usually_quiet]

In 3 cases, when finalizing a full DVD, unit has crashed and after reboot, the DVD has been wiped clean of all data (a "coaster" :evil: ), particularly annoying since the original VHS was already discarded.

I have a different Panasonic model, and on a couple of instances when finalization failed, I was able to recover the data using the free version of ISOBuster, plus the free programs IFOEdit, and VOBEdit. Here's what I did:

1. Open ISOBuster
2. Select DVD drive (If you can see "Track 01" in the left hand pane, it can recover at least some of your data)
3. Open Options menu
4. Select "Image File"
4. Select "ISO/BIN/TAO" Tab
5. Uncheck both boxes
6. Close dialog window
7. Right click on "Track 01" in left-hand pane
8. Select "Extract Track 01"
9. Select "Extract User Data (*.tao, *.iso, *.wav)"
10. Choose where you want to save the data. (It will copy everything it can find as one big .tao file)
11. Use VOBEdit to open and then demultiplex the .tao file
12. You can edit and author the video and audio you demultiplexed using your favorite editing/authoring package.
Alternately, use IFOEdit to author a menuless DVD from the demultiplexed audio and video.

[Snaque]

All your Panny needs is a simple spindle cleaning.
http://club.cdfreaks.com/f106/fixing-your-panny-when-theres-fault-lens-cleaning-doesnt-help-210507/
Do this and it should be as good as new and say good buy to any more coasters.

Oh Boy, this sounds a bit risk y, but I'll have a go and see...Keep your fingers crossed for me!!!!

[Snaque]

In 3 cases, when finalizing a full DVD, unit has crashed and after reboot, the DVD has been wiped clean of all data (a "coaster" ), particularly annoying since the original VHS was already discarded.

I have a different Panasonic model, and on a couple of instances when finalization failed, I was able to recover the data using the free version of ISOBuster, plus the free programs IFOEdit, and VOBEdit. Here's what I did:

1. Open ISOBuster
2. Select DVD drive (If you can see "Track 01" in the left hand pane, it can recover at least some of your data)
3. Open Options menu
4. Select "Image File"
4. Select "ISO/BIN/TAO" Tab
5. Uncheck both boxes
6. Close dialog window
7. Right click on "Track 01" in left-hand pane
8. Select "Extract Track 01"
9. Select "Extract User Data (*.tao, *.iso, *.wav)"
10. Choose where you want to save the data. (It will copy everything it can find as one big .tao file)
11. Use VOBEdit to open and then demultiplex the .tao file
12. You can edit and author the video and audio you demultiplexed using your favorite editing/authoring package.
Alternately, use IFOEdit to author a menuless DVD from the demultiplexed audio and video.

Yikes! Sounds like Sanskrit to me, but will investigate the possibilities once the Panasonic is sorted out...I do appreciate your taking the time to fill me in on this, being able to rescue data is always a good thing!....

[Snaque]

All your Panny needs is a simple spindle cleaning.
http://club.cdfreaks.com/f106/fixing-your-panny-when-theres-fault-lens-cleaning-doesnt-help-210507/
Do this and it should be as good as new and say good buy to any more coasters.

I opened it up...See attached photo...Don't think this is going to work.....

panadmreh5024%20(1).jpg

As you can see, the tray area is encased, no way to get to the area that needs to be cleaned, guess Pana does not want users doing this procedure and added this cover....



panadmreh5024%20(1).jpg

[usually_quiet]

I can't see your photos. Something went wrong when you added them to your post. There's a "Test" section in the Forums area of the site under heading "Other" where you can make test posts to help figure out what went awry.

[Snaque]

I can't see your photos. Something went wrong when you added them to your post. There's a "Test" section in the Forums area of the site under heading "Other" where you can make test posts to help figure out what went awry.

Tried it again 3X on test, still won't go through...Only thing I notice is that the preview button is disabled when the file is attached (The location on my HD where the pic is stored shows up after clicking browse...I see no seperate "upload" button present)...

[jjeff]

You need to not only remove the unit's cover but also the EH-50s black plastic cover over the DVD drive. It should have 4? small Philips drive screws.
You won't be able to do a thing until your remove this second cover. If you're leary of removing any more covers there is also two other ways to clean the spindle. One involves spit and for the second you need a long wooden handled Q-tip (like in Dr's offices or used in VCR cleaning). For the second method you eject the disc tray. Then unplug the machine. Gently slide the tray in or out to gain access so you can see the spindle. Then insert your alcohol dipped q-tip into the slot and gently clean the spindle.
The last method involves moistening your finger with saliva and then gently running your finger around the bottom clear inner part of your DVD. Only the inner most 1/4" clear part. After doing that immediately insert your disc in the machine and the disc should work. After you've done this a couple dozen times with various discs you'll find you don't have to moisten the discs anymore. It seems to last for upwards of 6 months vs. about a year for a proper take apart cleaning of the drive.

Note your damaged discs will still probably not play or finalize. You could try some of the tips from others using your computer to try and recover those discs.

[Snaque]

You need to not only remove the unit's cover but also the EH-50s black plastic cover over the DVD drive. It should have 4? small Philips drive screws.
You won't be able to do a thing until your remove this second cover. If you're leary of removing any more covers there is also two other ways to clean the spindle. One involves spit and for the second you need a long wooden handled Q-tip (like in Dr's offices or used in VCR cleaning). For the second method you eject the disc tray. Then unplug the machine. Gently slide the tray in or out to gain access so you can see the spindle. Then insert your alcohol dipped q-tip into the slot and gently clean the spindle.
The last method involves moistening your finger with saliva and then gently running your finger around the bottom clear inner part of your DVD. Only the inner most 1/4" clear part. After doing that immediately insert your disc in the machine and the disc should work. After you've done this a couple dozen times with various discs you'll find you don't have to moisten the discs anymore. It seems to last for upwards of 6 months vs. about a year for a proper take apart cleaning of the drive.

Note your damaged discs will still probably not play or finalize. You could try some of the tips from others using your computer to try and recover those discs.

OK, I'll have a go (and I truly appreciate you taking the time to respond), but I think a Panasonic DMR-EZ28K is in my immediate future no matter what...

[jjeff]

The EZ-28 makes great recordings (I had one for 3 months) but it too will eventually need a spindle cleaning and the EZ machines in general are more flaky than our ES/EH machines. As you probably know even unfinalized discs may be shared between your EH and the new EZ machines but discs damaged during finalizing or burning may not be playable in either machine.

[Snaque]

The EZ-28 makes great recordings (I had one for 3 months) but it too will eventually need a spindle cleaning and the EZ machines in general are more flaky than our ES/EH machines. As you probably know even unfinalized discs may be shared between your EH and the new EZ machines but discs damaged during finalizing or burning may not be playable in either machine.

Well, the joke is on me, and it's a bad one....
I tried the "liquid method", which worked for a while, but eventually errors returned. I decided to go whole hog, but first went out and bought the EZ 28 as a backup in case anything went wrong, and it did. Re-opened, removed the inner (plastic) cover and cleaned the EH50. I was shocked at how little filth I found (this was a puzzler). Put it all back together and fired er' up, only to find that now every time I put in a disc, the unit would run for a few, then kick out the disc. This went on for almost 2 hours of frustration. I finally gave up, disconnected it and hooked up the new unit, which I have been setting up for the last hours. I'm thinking all is cool until I just realized that this damn thing apparently does not have a HD (!!??)...WTF good is it without one for my uses?. So now I'm back beyond square one. I have no idea why the EH is not holding discs, I have a new machine that is useless and don't know what to do or where to turn next...I need a HD machine and need it yesterday (For clarification, I am converting all old VHS to DVD, and am "married" to Panasonic, as I have a separate setup in my bedroom (with a TV as a monitor so I can see what I'm doing) solely devoted to copying VHS to DVD, and this is with a Panasonic DMR-EZ475V Non-HD unit VHS to DVD only. I have been finalizing all completed discs on the E50 for 2 reasons: 1)The ability to edit titles by being able to field all the way to the left to enter text: In case nobody has noticed, this ability has been removed from later Panasonics. You can only delete and enter new text, not work with and alter text already present, as you can with the E50: Another Stupid move for no discernible reason by Panasonic. The other extremely stupid move being the removal of the "eject" button on the remote controls issued by Panasonic...I still use the old E80 remote, which does have this feature on it. Why TF should you have to get up out of your chair to eject and replace discs when you can do it from the remote? StupidX20!!. 2)The ability to create Thumbnail Menus. So visualize stacks of VHS tapes with burned raw DVD in each box wating for finalization: Which I can no longer do given the present situation...I'm Doomed...Anyhoo: Suggestions & advice please needed...
Update: I have since removed the new machine and tried again with the EH50, which now will only start to log on, do it's checks, shut down ("Bye") then start the process all over again in a feedback loop. Suks' beyond belief. I made a drive (in the rain) miles out to my storage shed to retrieve my first machine from back in 03'...a stone-age, no thumbnail makin', Pana EMR-E80H (which was screwing up, so I bought the E50)...I'm in the process of hooking it up now (at almost 2 in the morning). We'll see what happens next...

[usually_quiet]

You might look into having your Panasonic DMREH50 repaired. According to several members of this forum, you pay shipping, plus a flat fee of $130 to Panasonic for out-of-warranty repairs.

[jjeff]

Yes for $130 you can't buy anything like it now. As you've found out Panasonic stopped selling HDD DVDRs in the US after '06.
I would have probably missed the eject on the remote but since I got into Pannys('05) they never had that feature. I know other members are using there old remotes because they like that feature so much. I admit I use it all the time on my Sony DVD players.
In regards to titles and thumbnails I'm able to change them on all my '05-'09 Pannys, the only thing they dropped in the EZ units('07 and on) was the "phrase save" feature which I use all the time. For that reason when finalizing DVDs I would always use my older ES/EH series machines that had the phrase save feature. They should all have the ability to choose your thumbnail from any frame in the title.

[Snaque]

You might look into having your Panasonic DMREH50 repaired. According to several members of this forum, you pay shipping, plus a flat fee of $130 to Panasonic for out-of-warranty repairs.

For the sake of speed, can you point me in the right direction so I can get cracking on this?...

[Snaque]

Yes for $130 you can't buy anything like it now. As you've found out Panasonic stopped selling HDD DVDRs in the US after '06.
I would have probably missed the eject on the remote but since I got into Pannys('05) they never had that feature. I know other members are using there old remotes because they like that feature so much. I admit I use it all the time on my Sony DVD players.
In regards to titles and thumbnails I'm able to change them on all my '05-'09 Pannys, the only thing they dropped in the EZ units('07 and on) was the "phrase save" feature which I use all the time. For that reason when finalizing DVDs I would always use my older ES/EH series machines that had the phrase save feature. They should all have the ability to choose your thumbnail from any frame in the title.

Update: The EMR-E80H is up and running, so far so good...At least I'll be able to finalize my bulk VHS copy DVD's, albeit without thumbnails or additional programming, so they will be ugly, & I'll be wasting a lot of extra disc space, but will at least these can & will be archived, assuming the E80 does not malfunction on me ...Yes I'm feeling like a flaming butt-munch moron regarding this HDD DVDR situation, had I known what was coming I would have bought at least 2 machines as backups . (This is analogous to the Oster food steamers which had the large basket, which were obsoleted by the smaller square basket. I bought 2 of these and 1 basket as backup, since they tend to crack with hard use. There is an appliance store in town that does repairs & parts on these steamers, which are popular with bodybuilders and health enthusiasts because of their larger capacity. It seems Panasonic is in the same boat, with tons of customers keeping their HDD machines up and running in lieu of these new disc copy only so-called DVD recorders. What a simpering cowardly & sneaky way around the HD "problem" here in the USA...One would think they could take the risk & offer at least one HDD machine with top of the line features here and clean up with big profit$...[Is it true that there is a Panasonic Blu-Ray recorder wit a HDD?]...They could move a Million units with ease, and many would buy more than one "just in case". You want "economic stimulus"? Here is a way to make instant sales, Hello, Panasonic, are you listening here?!)...JJeff, I'm scratching my head on your info regarding thumbnails a bit, but I can decipher that you were finalizing your discs done on other machines with thumbnails as I was doing with my E50, and am now unable to do with my ancient stone age E80...
So, the next step is to send the E50 in and pray it is repairable as soon as I can obtain proper instructions on how to get the job done. Now, like finding the "A-Team", I have to search for the "Panasonic HDD Maquis Underground" to see about getting a couple of bug-free backup machines, hopefully without getting completely exploited re$$ (according to that CNet article, unscrupulous scalpers are doing this, with help from here I'm hoping to avoid these pitfalls...[http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-9787239-1.html?tag=mncol]). I'm assuming that when the big changeover happens, those using cable will still be able to record, If I'm wrong on this, please let me know...Let me again shower kudos upon you brothers for taking your valuable time to help a brother out in this time of stress for me, and please forgive my ignorance on this whole Panasonic market retraction of HDD DVDR's...I was happily Pollyanna going about my projects until things started going wrong, and I've learned a hard, hard lesson about not keeping up with tech that I will not soon forget!!!. Thanks again guys, all help is desired & appreciated! ...Best regards: "Snaque"

[jjeff]

This is the best post I know of talking about the $130 flat rate Panasonic repair.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14451738#post14451738

[usually_quiet]

It seems Panasonic is in the same boat, with tons of customers keeping their HDD machines up and running in lieu of these new disc copy only so-called DVD recorders. What a simpering cowardly & sneaky way around the HD "problem" here in the USA...One would think they could take the risk & offer at least one HDD machine with top of the line features here and clean up with big profit$...[Is it true that there is a Panasonic Blu-Ray recorder wit a HDD?]...They could move a Million units with ease, and many would buy more than one "just in case". You want "economic stimulus"? Here is a way to make instant sales, Hello, Panasonic, are you listening here...

A million units is probably peanuts to Panasonic and most other consumer electronics manufacturers. For that reason, the Magnavox H2160MW9 is the only new HDD DVD recorder left in the USA. There are a few left-over Philips 3576/76H recorders available, but since Philps has reportedly decided to drop its consumer electronics product lines entirely world-wide this year, there will be no more from them. There are Blu-Ray recorders in Japan. I would be somewhat surprised to see those show up here in normal retail outlets, ever.

This has all been dicussed in other threads but since you seem to have missed those, here are a few reasons for the small market here.

1. Most people in the USA watch and erase their recordings, so an integrated DVD burner is not needed.
2. Many others watch online, rent the DVD, or buy the DVD, and skip recording altogether
3. If recording from a paid TV service, it is easier to use one of the service provider's DVRs, some of which can record in high-definition. Considering a DVD recorder's lifespan may only be a couple of years, the cost of renting vs buying is not much of a factor.
4. For OTA recording, TiVo's or Dish Network's TR-50/DTVPal DVRs are more convenient, and offer high definition as well. (The TR-50 is not subscription based, and costs about the same as an HDD DVD recorder.)
5. Most people in the USA don't have many home movies or video tapes to transfer to DVD.

[Snaque]

This is the best post I know of talking about the $130 flat rate Panasonic repair.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14451738#post14451738

I'm on it... 8)

[Snaque]

This has all been dicussed in other threads but since you seem to have missed those, here are a few reasons for the small market here.
1. Most people in the USA watch and erase their recordings, so an integrated DVD burner is not needed.
2. Many others watch online, rent the DVD, or buy the DVD, and skip recording altogether
3. If recording from a paid TV service, it is easier to use one of the service provider's DVRs, some of which can record in high-definition. Considering a DVD recorder's lifespan may only be a couple of years, the cost of renting vs buying is not much of a factor.
4. For OTA recording, TiVo's or Dish Network's TR-50/DTVPal DVRs are more convenient, and offer high definition as well. (The TR-50 is not subscription based, and costs about the same as an HDD DVD recorder.)
5. Most people in the USA don't have many home movies or video tapes to transfer to DVD. (Except for people like me, who have a closet full of tapes to convert!! )

Way to throw a wet blanket over a theory, there, Kiddo'...
However, I still hold the view that just because a small segment of the population does something, the rest of us should not be punished for it (such as mental illness, firearms misuse, and yes, HDD DVR's)
This would not be the first consumer product still being produced while allegedly being "less in demand". Why are so-called DVD Recorders limited to burning only to disc being foisted off on the public rather than those with HDD? Someone has made the decision that Americans will be "permitted" to record to limited formats, but most importantly, are not to be allowed to edit their recordings before burning to disc, as is only possible with the HDD units(!). Frankly, since these are still being manufactured and sold everywhere else except the US, I lean toward the conspiracy theories moreso than those you have presented as thoughtful they may be, not just to be a contrary a-hole, but surmise that this is too suspiciously coincidental to be just a market based decision, and that includes the infamous lawsuit considerations: Some backroom under the table dealings going on there(?)... (new VCR's being built and sold in the USA but not HDD DVR's?...There is a hell of a lot of something wrong with that picture!!!!)...

[Snaque]

Update: The E-50 is on the way to the Service Center, and I'm fingers crossed all will be solved and I will get it back and be a happy chappie...We will see...
The E-80 is up and running--and still having problems. Doesn't like DVD-RAM disks, doesnt recognize them, refuses to format them, even when being reformatted on other machines. In 2 cases, crashed on attempted disc burns of data from the HD... ...I now remember why I ran from this thing as soon as another Panasonic option presented itself, it is less than basic, even if it was workking 100%, which it is not at present...I hate to say that it is better than nothing, but that seems to be the case, & beggars can't be choosers I reckon...

On a quick investigation of the Magnavox/Phillips option brought to my attention above, I see that these may be useless to Panasonic based collections, due to their apparent incompatibility with DVD-R disc burning (there seem to be some issues there with burning speeds being limited regarding DVD-R vs. a preference toward DVD+). I also found that these are no longer available from Wally-World according to their website. I was hoping grabbing a couple of these as backups would be a reasonable stopgap, but seem to be getting frustrated yet again....What to do, where to turn?...

[usually_quiet]

The market here decided. No conspiracy exists. The ability of retailers and manufacturers to sell enough units and make an acceptable profit was the determining factor. They can't make one on HDD DVD recorders. In the past, plain DVD recorders sold because of a cheaper price, and continue to sell to the small market that needs/wants to record to DVD.

The overseas market consists of billions watching mostly OTA and for the most part using PAL or its digital equivalent. The US market is 300 million using NTSC/ATSC/QAM, and most of us have a paid TV service offering competing devices. Japan uses a different digital broadcast system from ours, so we can't benefit from being similar to them anymore.

Most people are not interested in editing TV shows since fast-forward works just fine if you watch and erase. If someone is serious about editing, a computer does a better job.

Since you apparently missed the news, as of last year, VCR only units are no longer being made, nor are blank VHS tapes. All that remains now is old stock and DVD player/VCR combo units or DVD recorder/VCR combo units. I don't expect those to be available much longer, since blank tapes are no longer being made.

[Edit] I just looked at Walmart. They have the Philips DVDR3576H/37 online again. I am usure about how good they are for editing. Download the PDF manual and look at it. Not buying just because of the discs it prefers makes little sense these days.

Some people manage to obtain other brands of HDD recorders from Canadian sources and US specialty online retailers, although they pay through the nose for it and get no warranty because they are not US models. Use Google to find some.

Here's one source I found in 5 minutes of Googling. http://www.dvdoverseas.com/store/index.html?loadfile=catalog98_0.html I can't give a personal recommendation as I have never ordered from them and don't know anything about them.

[Snaque]

Update: No word on my E-50 . Will go grey market on a Panasonic, make it the primary and the E-50 a backup assuming it is repairable. Yet to choose the model but leaning toward a large HD model. Musing on how to beat the tuner issue, but will deal with that when the time comes...

(I still think a conspiracy exists...US are not being permitted to record and edit for a reason... )

[classfour]

The RAM issue is due to the difference in wavelength. You may have a laser problem. Panny used to make a long-term machine, not as user friendly as you may like, but built better than the imitations.

I currently have an E-20 (OLD!), and an E-55 - both working.

I did notice the weight (build quality) diminished from model to model.

I actually sold a DMR-E15S because it was "too lightweight".

Good Luck!

[usually_quiet]

[Musing on how to beat the tuner issue, but will deal with that when the time comes...

A coupon-elegible converter box would make up for the lack of an ATSC tuner. I would not wait too long to get one.

The Zinwell ZAT-950A has 8 event timers, a good tuner, decent picture quality with composite out, and allows the internal clock to be set manually.

The Channel Master CM-7000 has an excellent tuner and S-Video out for an improved picture. It has no event timers, but a DVD recorder that includes an IR Blaster and G-Link cable can turn it on and change the channel. I have one and use it for recording OTA channels that aren't carried on analog cable.

The Apex DT502 converter boxes available at Best Buy also have S-Video out, but the tuner and picture quality are not quite as good as the CM-7000, from what I have read. The reminder function on the Apex DT502 is much like a timer but requires it to be on all the time. I am not sure if it allows the clock to be set manually.

The Dish DTVPal Plus and TR40-CRA also have timers, but as a TR40-CRA owner, I would not recommend them for recording via their timers. They depend on the time sent on the signal which is often wrong, sometimes by only 2 minutes, other times by as much as 5 hours. The boxes themselves are not responsible for the problem, but it should have been addressed by including a manually settable clock.

[jjeff]

I currently have an E-20 (OLD!), and an E-55 - both working.

I did notice the weight (build quality) diminished from model to model.

I actually sold a DMR-E15S because it was "too lightweight".

Good Luck!

Yes you can't beat the build quality of the older machines. If memory serves me right the ES-20 is a '04 or '05 model. IMO the '05 models (including the ES-30v) were the last of the well built heavy machines. Starting with '06 (including the ES-15,ES-25 and even the ES-55) Panasonic clearly took cost cutting measures to bring the units to more mainstream prices. The drives are noticeably noisier and the machines are much lighter. The EH-55 is heavier than the ES-15 mainly due to the HDD and related parts required for it. Otherwise they are very similar in appearance and design. I have several ES-30v's, a ES-25, several ES-15's and a ES-55. They all record in the same quality, it's just the build quality that lessened in later years.
The EZ series build quality are on par with something like the ES-15 but they are much buggier.

[Snaque]

The RAM issue is due to the difference in wavelength. You may have a laser problem. Panny used to make a long-term machine, not as user friendly as you may like, but built better than the imitations.

I currently have an E-20 (OLD!), and an E-55 - both working.

I did notice the weight (build quality) diminished from model to model.

I actually sold a DMR-E15S because it was "too lightweight".

Good Luck!

Appreciate the response, but....*Huh*????
My old E-80 is indeed a "brick", but only performs marginally (no thumbnail feature either)...

[Snaque]

[Musing on how to beat the tuner issue, but will deal with that when the time comes]...

A coupon-elegible converter box would make up for the lack of an ATSC tuner. I would not wait too long to get one...

Call me a dumbass, but I long ago gave up on trying to do timer recording with my DVR's, too much headaches & hassles (not to say I might not revise that view in future, however, so your info is appreciated). When I do record from "live TV" I am physically there to do it, and this is from my Cable TV service. I have it rigged like this: cable from wall into VCR & VCR into HDD DVR. DVR is plugged into a small TV which is used as a monitor so I can see what is happening re editing, etc from the DVR. This setup is separate from the larger "main" TV (channel changing controlled thru the VCR, I've programmed most of my remotes into a MX-500 "Home Theater Master" Learning Remote Control, a very cool tool I highly recommend BTW, I'm down to 3 remotes from eight ). I also have a cable box, which (when I had the E-50 up) I could run wire from it into the frontal inputs of the panny and set it to a line channel on the DVR, giving me another option to play with (the other line channels of course being to another VCR for copying specific VHS bits & a spare). Remember, I'm doing the majority of "bulk VHS copying" on the panasonic VHS/DVD unit set up in my bedroom, this also with a small TV used as a monitor, then do the titles/finalization on the main DVR in the front room. Not been doing any of this since the E-50 went tits up of course (just maintaining with the old E-80, which does not read DVD-RAMs anymore BTW, frustrating)...Hope this is making some kind of sense to you U.Q....

[usually_quiet]

[Musing on how to beat the tuner issue, but will deal with that when the time comes]...

A coupon-elegible converter box would make up for the lack of an ATSC tuner. I would not wait too long to get one...

Call me a dumbass, but I long ago gave up on trying to do timer recording with my DVR's, too much headaches & hassles (not to say I might not revise that view in future, however, so your info is appreciated). When I do record from "live TV" I am physically there to do it, and this is from my Cable TV service. I have it rigged like this: cable from wall into VCR & VCR into HDD DVR. DVR is plugged into a small TV which is used as a monitor so I can see what is happening re editing, etc from the DVR. This setup is separate from the larger "main" TV (channel changing controlled thru the VCR, I've programmed most of my remotes into a MX-500 "Home Theater Master" Learning Remote Control, a very cool tool I highly recommend BTW, I'm down to 3 remotes from eight :wink: ). I also have a cable box, which (when I had the E-50 up) I could run wire from it into the frontal inputs of the panny and set it to a line channel on the DVR, giving me another option to play with (the other line channels of course being to another VCR for copying specific VHS bits & a spare). Remember, I'm doing the majority of "bulk VHS copying" on the panasonic VHS/DVD unit set up in my bedroom, this also with a small TV used as a monitor, then do the titles/finalization on the main DVR in the front room. Not been doing any of this since the E-50 went tits up of course :roll: (just maintaining with the old E-80, which does not read DVD-RAMs anymore BTW, frustrating)...Hope this is making some kind of sense to you U.Q.... :oops:

I thought you needed an ATSC tuner for recording over-the-air broadcasts, since that is not something any of the gray-market recorders would have. (Some do include an NTSC/PAL combo tuner, and the Canadian models would have an NTSC tuner.) The coupon elegible converter boxes are not useful for tuning anything but OTA digital channels.