DVD duplicator question!

[slaak]

Hi, what is the FASTEST way to get the first batch of dvd's out from a camcorder? Can you d/l from the camcorder (hdd) straight to the hd in the duplicator?

[Baldrick]

Connect it to standalone recorder and record...and then duplicate that dvd.

If you want more information then must you tell us more information about your camcorder, does it record in mpeg2 dvd format or mpeg4 format on the hdd? What camcorder?

[slaak]

Here is what I am TRYING to figure out....my camera is a canon hg21, records in avchd. I am TRYING to find the FASTEST possible way to burn 25-30 dvd's from the camcorder. currently I am making a master and then a duplicating that master. But I am thinking about buying a real duplicator machine and burning ten at a time. Is there a faster way to get 30 dvds out then making the "master" and then copying that single dvd??

[wtsinnc]

What you are looking for is a device that is capable of creating ten copies of the master tape directly to DVD. If it exists, it's bound to be prohibitively expensive and almost certainly very difficult to learn to use properly. I've never heard of software which would accommodate such a process and if it exists in the consumer realm, it too is bound to be expensive, have a pretty steep learning curve, and perhaps work with only a very limited type of data transfer process; additionally, "on-the-fly" dubbing requires a high standard of precision to avoid unrecoverable errors. If no one here can provide the information you are looking for, your questions can possibly be answered by contacting a video production firm.

Duplicators can be very convenient but some if not most have several inherent limitations that you should consider.
Among them;

The vast majority of controllers (all that I'm aware of- in fact) have a maximum dub speed of 8x when using a ten burner configuration. (I stand to be corrected on this; I refer only to those consumer duplicators that I am aware of).

The controller firmware may be burner specific; that is, if one of the burners develops a problem and needs to be replaced, you may be required to buy an exact replacement or at least a very close cousin. That might become very difficult once the duplicator begins to age.

The controller may not allow for special features or functions (such as editing) that you require.

If you have an error in the transfer process, that error will be manifest in every copy.

Unless your time is worth very, very much, you're better off going the tried and true method of creating a master, certifying that it is exactly what you want, then creating your dubs using a Wytron, Acard, or other name brand controller coupled with good burners and, of course, high quality media.

[slaak]

Fantastic reply. I am NOT very good with this stuff and I am willing to spend about 1200$. What would you suggest I buy If I wanted to make dvd's at the football for the parents? (I understand that I need power, printer etc. just wondering what you would purchase to set up YOUR lil duplicator biz?).......This idea might sound crazy I know but our home field is a lil unique and we get about 300+ parents a Saturday and most of them are "well off". IF YOU HAD TO TRY IT HOW WOULD YOU SET IT UP? haha

[Brainiac]

I'd do what Baldrick suggests. Burn to DVD recorder and then make copies of the master using a duplicator. All this is assuming that you have no editing to do. A church that I work with does the very same thing.

Brainiac

[wtsinnc]

haha
hello slaak.

Provided you will use the Pixela Imagemaker 3SE software that came with your camera and that you will download from your camera to your computer via USB;

Edit the program and if at all possible, try to keep the total run time at two hours or less as action sequences require a higher bit rate for accurate reproduction.

reference these two links for information about duplicators.

http://www.ily.com/

http://www.copystars.com/

-I would definitely add the hard drive option because it provides for a more stable image to duplicate than on-the-fly.

-Use only top quality media- Taiyo Yuden or Verbatim- in that order.

So;
Video camera (to) computer HDD via USB (to) DVD (your master disc)
(to) the master disc to the Duplicator controller (to) duplicator HD (to) the burners.

Another option would be to bypass the standard DVD duplicator and build a computer duplicator using (perhaps) a Cooler Master Stacker case, a good power supply with connectors for ten burners, motherboard, CPU, RAM, expansion cards(s) to provide the IDE or SATA connection for ten burners, video card, the burners, fans, etc. A great choice for the duplication software would be Alcohol 120% because it offers multiple burner support. If you add an operating system, you might be able to put it together for $1200.00 but I haven't run the numbers and have no idea about the power supply or if there would be a better way to power ten burners. Adding the cost of a monitor is almost certain to push the total cost over your predefined budget, so you might want to think about a simple KVM switch or increasing your budget to accommodate the added expense.

By building a computer duplicator, you could download from your video camera directly to the computer hard drive, then (using Alcohol 120%) burn the DVDs from the computers' hard drive image.

There are other ways to accomplish what you want to do, but this at least gives you a couple of ideas and sources for additional information.

Good luck !

[slaak]

Now THATS what I wanted to know! That sounds great! I will push my budget a little as speed is a lil more important than cost right now. Im not a tech guy but as I understand you, you are saying that building a pc that has 10 burners in it will save me time because it wont have to d/l into ANOTHER hd(duplicator). Right?

[wtsinnc]

That is correct.

I saw some DVD duplicator PCs on ebay a few months ago. I don't remember the seller but the prices seemed fair considering they were already assembled, tested, included XP or Vista, and came with a warranty. The details are sketchy at best, but I do remember for under $700.00 (no monitor) they used a Biostar MB, Athlon 64 x2 5000 series CPU, 2gb of RAM, and four installed Lite-On burners. I don't recall anything about the power supply or video card, but the PCs were interesting and the seller had a very good feedback rating. I'll run a quick search and post a link if i find anything.

[slaak]

Fantastic. I have a good comp in my sons room that is being "wasted" in there haha. Sounds like I MIGHT be able to salvage alot of parts. Think the Processor is a big deal? video card a bigger deal? I'd guess that a fast HD would be a must? *edit* It has 9 (empty) bays! I new there was a reason it was so expensive hehe. Duplicator controller allows u to use ALL the burners at once right??

[slaak]

bump 1 time

[wtsinnc]

See what the computer currently has in terms of power supply, CPU, and motherboard. If the processor isn't up to the task, perhaps that MB will accept one that is.

I don't see why you would need a high priced video card. I would guess all you want to do is keep track of the start to finish process via your monitor. In any event, if your needs change you can always add a better card. Just be aware of the need for a high quality power supply; you are going to be powering a lot of devices.

In my opinion, a standard 7200 rpm HD is sufficient. I do believe you should consider using two hard drives as this should allow for slightly faster processing; one small capacity (40-80 GB) for your operating system and applications and the second for the downloaded video (s). For the second hard drive, I would go for something at least 500 GB or larger.

Before anything else, identify the components you want to use (power supply, CPU, motherboard, RAM, video card, burners, etc.) and confirm that they are compatible.

I have used Alcohol 120% to burn with three burners. I believe it will support as many as ten- perhaps even more but I don't know for certain.
Log on to:

http://www.alcohol-soft.com/

Other software may be able to render multiple burner suppport; I have used Alcohol 120% but don't know the maximum number of burners it will support at any one time. E-mailing customer support or posting that question in their forums should provide the answer.

[slaak]

Thanks for taking the time to post such usefull and well thought out replies! Im going to get cracking! Even If I dont get the dang thing to work It will be fun and educational for me haha. One last question I guess...The duplicator controller is needed right? that goes into a slot just like a burner would?

[filmboss80]

Slaak, you seem to have gotten the most excited over the most convoluted solution offered. Baldrick's post, (the very first response) was the best possible answer to your question that began with "what is the FASTEST way..."

Are you familiar with the K.I.S.S. rule? I assume you wanted to deliver product within minutes of the event, right?

[dun4cheap]

I utilize a 1 to 7 target Acard duplicator which does not require a computer for the duplication process. I would strongly recommend this method. I have seen new ACARD interfaces selling for $89 and pioneer burners are down to like $29 each plus a duplicator case is about $50. So for about $400 you can set yourself up well.

Here is where I got my duplicator from. It was sent to me it premo condition in 3 days.

http://www.amamax.com/

Most duplicators will burn at 20x. I have a 2033s Acard interface which I purchased 3 years ago and it is going strong.

[filmboss80]

Here's another duplicator link to check out:

http://www.ocie.com/

With these guys (who are very helpful), you can either buy a pre-built duplicator or build your own. Very flexible.

[slaak]

Can you plug the camcorder into the duplicator with a hd and a usb?

[filmboss80]

Slaak, you need to go to What Is > DVD in the left column of this website. You cannot get a DVD-compliant file structure by simply feeding video into a harddrive. This is why Baldrick suggested feeding the live video signal into a set-top DVD-recorder. When the project is finished, you just push a couple of buttons to create an instant title menu and finalize the disc. The DVD recorder will make a DVD-compliant master disc that you can eject, and then put into the DVD duplicator to make many, many copies. That is the quickest, simplest way.

[slaak]

But heres my problem..from what I've read the recorders record in real time from the camcorder. I will be pauseing often during my shoot. Wont the recorder continue to record while my camcorder is paused?

[dun4cheap]

Maybe you should buy a DVD Camcorder. Then when your done recording you can close the disc and duplicate it.

[slaak]

Aha! that was going to be my final solution til I read that the quality of those dvds are rather poor...still true?
*edit* Ok, I have read about the dvd based camcorders some more and I have ANOTHER question! (you guys have been so helpfull btw) Can a dvd made in AVCHD with a dl disc be played back in a standard dvd player?

[dun4cheap]

The simple answer is no. AVCHD is an HD file format. It can be played back on a Blue Ray DVD player and some PC computers can play it back as well.

As for a DVD Camcorder, this is not the optimal format for any Video Editor. In your case you don't appear to want to do any real editing, so the quality should be acceptable. Of course quality will vary depending on the type Optics it has.

Any other method would require some sort of secondary encoding which there is no way you would be able to accomplish this in 15 minutes. So the bottom line would be a DVD Camcorder, or DVD Recorder recorder live from your camera feed which you said you want to pause and unpause your recording so this method would not work. This really just leaves you with a DVD Camcorder option and Duplicator.

[filmboss80]

It is only after about 8 or 9 posts that you finally mentioned you want to pause the camera. Yes, that changes things. It's an important piece of information that would have been nice to know before we offered advice.

I do not know a lot about camcorders that record directly to DVD disc, but I know that many models record to mini-dvd discs and have a limited capacity. Unless you find a camcorder that will record to a single, full-sized 4.7 Gig DVD disc, you may still have difficulties.

[slaak]

Yikes sorry! didnt realize the "pause" thing would matter. I am going to try the canon dc 330 (uses dvd media) and then straight to a duplicator..I hope that gets me 20 or so dvd's within 30 minutes. You guys rock and this forum has been the BEST and most responsive i've tried. If I start making a killin trying this out I'll let ya'll know! haha