720P or 1080p at 32" - that is the question

[guns1inger]

Starting to look at getting an LCD TV. Due to space constraints in the unit it will be housed in, it will have to be a 32" model. There are very few full 1080pHD LCDs at this size, with 1366 x 768 being by far the most common. I have found three 1080p TVs that seem to be worth considering. They are

Sony : Bravia V-series current model KDL32V4000 ( http://www.sony.com.au/homecinema/catalog/product.jsp?categoryId=22400 )
Samsung : Series 6 ( http://www.samsung.com/au/series6/38_39.pdf )
LG : Scarlet ( http://www.lgscarlet.com.au/highBW/assets/downloads/scarlet_catalogue_au.pdf )

Average viewing distance is 8 - 12 feet, occasionally 16 - 18 feet. For the most part, at least in the near future, most viewing will be FTA HD broadcast and DVDs. Until HDCP is finally ironed out, I won't be replacing the surround amp, so the external connections will be component.

Question 1 : Will I notice much or any difference between 720p and 1080p at these distances on a 32" screen ?

Question 2 : Is the V-series worth considering given it does not have the XBR processing engine ? (Not looking for anti-Sony bitching here, just an objective view on the model specified)

Question 3 : Given the selection above, which is worth serious consideration. All are in a similar price range and have similar specs. If not, do you have all alternative suggestion ? (Note : must be something available on the Australian market)

At this point I am leaning more toward the Samsung, which leads me to my final question.

Question 4 : Both the Samsung Series 5 and Series 6 have a full HD (1080p) 32" model. Aside from the cosmetic differences, is there a lot of difference between the series 5 and series 6 engines ? The price difference is around AUD$700 - 800 ($1399 vs $2199 ish). Is the difference in the engines worth the difference in the price, or am I paying mostly for the colour infusion process used in the casing ?

[jagabo]

At 8+ feet from a 32 inch HDTV you will not see any difference between 720p and 1080p. You will need to be within about 4 feet to see much difference. At 8 feet from a 32 inch HDTV you will be hard pressed to tell the difference between SD and HD.

http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html

[RickA]

Greets,

Hopefully these links will help:

http://www.carltonbale.com/2006/12/home-theater-seatings-distances-field-of-view-vs-resolution/

http://www.carltonbale.com/2006/11/1080p-does-matter/

Cheers,
Rick

Oops, jagabo had the faster typing.

[guns1inger]

Thanks guys. I have been to this (and several other) sites who, for some reason, all seem to have exactly the same chart. I'm not sure I find the match all that compelling as an argument, especially given how much processing and panels have improved over the last 2 years.

Can anyone confirm, from experience, that this is the case in normal home operation ?

Do the 1080 models have better engines that the 720p models that will give a better viewing experience, regardless of being able to see extra detail ? After all, there is a lot more to a good picture than just the number of pixels.

[KBeee]

This site, although not reviewing the exact models you mention (generally these are the 40" sets), does go into detail in their reviews, and has a Samsung series 5/6 comparison.
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/

[jagabo]

Do the 1080 models have better engines that the 720p models that will give a better viewing experience, regardless of being able to see extra detail ? After all, there is a lot more to a good picture than just the number of pixels.

Within the same generation/series the 720p and 1080p models usually have the same processing engine. I suppose it's possible that some manufacturers use different hardware or firmware for market segmentation beyond the screen size.

[samijubal]

I couldn't even see a difference in a 50" plasma at 10'. 1080p for 32" at 8' is a waste of money. The only time you can even get a true 1080p source is Blu-ray.

[yoda313]

I have a 32" 720p at 1366x768 and I like it just fine. 1080p would be nice but at the time I bought it last fall 1080p's were starting at 1000.00 and that was more than I was wanting to invest at the time.

@ samijubal - that is not entirely accurate for 1080p sources. If you're into gaming it can be a factor. Both the 360 and ps3 can output at 1080p. Now how many games are actually authored at 1080p I am not sure but it is capable of it. Not to mention hddvd sources that are at 1080p. Sure hddvd didn't survive but there are still viable players and movies available.

[jagabo]

And most current HDTVs do a decent job of converting 1080i to 1080p. So the fact that there aren't a lot of 1080p sources is moot.

[samijubal]

It still isn't true 1080p, wheather the TV does a good job of converting or not. What's this 1080i source? Upconverted DVDs? The fact remains that there isn't a difference on a 32" TV at 8'.

[jagabo]

It still isn't true 1080p, wheather the TV does a good job of converting or not.

It still looks sharper than 720p if you're close enough.

What's this 1080i source?

HD cable. HD Satellite. HD camcorders...

The fact remains that there isn't a difference on a 32" TV at 8'.

Which is what everyone who responed to the issue in this thread said already.

[FulciLives]

Personally I would go 1080p instead of 720p but then again it all depends on what you will be displaying "most of the time" but I imagine you will have this new TV for sometime to come so why not get the best quality (i.e., resolution) that is currently available? Seems a "no brainer" to me *shrugs*

One other thing you nor anyone else has mentioned is the TV OVERSCAN issue. Most HDTV sets only have pixel perfect matching on the VGA/PC input and not on the HDMI input however some do have pixel perfect matching on the HDMI input and I would consider that an important feature. My understanding is that many Samsung models offer this now. This would be nice to have for a variety of reasons especially if using it with anything like a Sony PS3 or Microsoft XboX 360 or a computer etc.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[jagabo]

I agree the cost of 1080p over 720p isn't that big now so it makes sense to go 1080p unless you're really short of cash.

A lot of the better 1080p HDTVs have pixel-per-pixel modes via HDMI. Samsung calls it "just scan". My Samsung 4665 looks great hooked up to the computer with a DVI->HDMI cable. It has the same sharp picture as a computer monitor, and no overscan.

[gll99]

I'm starting to look at hd as an option and it will be 1080p for sure. My current largest sets are 32" sd. To go with hd and maintain the same feeling of screen size, I think it has to be somewhere around 37" to 42". You might want to consider that aspect if you are making a similar kind of switch. Samsung models seem to get a lot of praise so right now they are at the top of my list unless someone else has a 1080p offer too hard to resist.

[guns1inger]

I got the series 6 Samsung. Fortunately I was able to audition it, and several others, side by side across a couple of stores in various lighting and with various sources. It stacked up very well against the LG, and even the Bravia. It also has much better contrast and black levels than the series 5. I ended up paying less than AUD$1550, which was only $200 more than the series 5, and $400 less than the Sony.

Lots to adjust not that everything is rewired, so I'm off to watch and play. Many thanks for your feedback.

[jagabo]

Did you go for 24 inches? Do you feel it's big enough?

[guns1inger]

32 inch, which just fits the space for it with an inch all around for breathing. It replaces a 27" 4:3, so the 4:3 image is slightly smaller (around 6%), but widescreen is substantially larger.

[FulciLives]

Have fun with the new HDTV

[guns1inger]

I nearly phoned in sick this morning so I could stay home and play.

Damn this professionalism.

[RabidDog]

Did you get a Womans Point of view on this? (Cue: LOLS, Jokes)

Personally, I would rather (for the same money) get a better quality smaller (32) set than a lesser quality big set(40,45) .

[guns1inger]

So far very happy and impressed. In fact, the material that looks the worst is SD that has been upscaled by the TV stations for broadcast as HD. The TV does a far better job of upscaling DVDs than the TV stations are doing with some of their own material.

[edDV]

Over here the Samsung Series 6 has gone 120Hz (118.88 actually due to 29.97). Are your's all 100Hz now?

[guns1inger]

40" and up is 100hz. Unfortunately the 32" isn't, although at the moment I think it is one of those things that you only miss if you have had it before.

[nickolas99]

Hey guys, I just got an LN-32a450 and an LN-32a550 samsung. First one is 720p and second one 1080p. BOTH 32". I connected them to a samsung blue-ray(up-scaling or down-scaling is not a matter now) and I watched a blue ray movie( The last warrior) . Within 5 meters I still could saw the difference between a 1080p and 720p. Picture is 720 had larger dots which made it difficult in some case to distinguish between two adjacent colors. But in 1080p I could still see those pixels but due to their size they could get packed up into each other better than larger pixels in 720p. I would say that's a difference, how bad this difference is up to peoples' visions. For some it is a big difference and they prefer to cough up some more bucks and for some that's a minor difference that can be solved by sitting farther from the screen. But if any body doesn't feel ANY DIFFERENCE AT ALL I really recommend to see an optometrist as soon as possible. Also, if you want to solve this problem by sitting farther from TV, why do you buy a 720p?? Because you can buy a 420p and watch your TV from your backyard. This way you won't feel any difference between an 420p and 1080p. LOOOOL . But honestly if you wanna be save in future for watching Blue-rays or other 1080p programs with the best quality, spend a couple of bucks more and get an 1080p. It is worth it

[edDV]

5 meters or 5 feet?

Most see little difference beyond 2 meters for a 32-40". The question is becoming mute as most LCD HDTV sets are using 1080p on all but the bargain entry model. In those cases the processor is usually lower quality as well.

It remains an issue for plasma models which still mostly use 1024x768 or 1366x768 displays. 1920x1080p plasma models exist but since plasmas draw power in proportion to pixel count, 1080p models can be very expensive to run when you consider direct power consumption and air conditioning load. Still many perceive the plasma producing a superior picture despite resolution. Plasmas have deeper blacks, better contrast and off axis brightness.

[Seeker47]

At 8+ feet from a 32 inch HDTV you will not see any difference between 720p and 1080p. You will need to be within about 4 feet to see much difference. At 8 feet from a 32 inch HDTV you will be hard pressed to tell the difference between SD and HD.

Have to disagree with you here. 8 feet is about the standard viewing distance (bedroom, from the bed) for my 32" Toshiba 720p set. I have both HD and SD feeds going in to it. The picture difference is immediately obvious. The SD is pretty good for SD on an LCD set of this type. The HD is far from the best I've seen, but it is quite superior and different in kind vs. the SD -- most clearly evident with faces, fine detail, sports, etc.

[jagabo]

8 feet is about the standard viewing distance (bedroom, from the bed) for my 32" Toshiba 720p set. I have both HD and SD feeds going in to it. The picture difference is immediately obvious.

It was a bit of an exaggeration to say he'd be hard pressed to see a difference at 8 feet.

[rcguy1]

DUH, go for the 1080p and be done with it.