MKV -> MPG2 for HD-DVD Authoring

[Mickey79]

Ok, I've been working on this problem about converting HD MKV's (x264) -> HD-DVD for playing in standalone HD-DVD Player. One solution that comes about is this...

Convert the MKV -> MPEG2 (Retain 1080p Resolution, 5.1 Audio)
Use Ulead VideoStudio to Author that MPEG2 -> HD-DVD
Burn to DVD5/DVD9

At this point I'm on step one - trying to convert MKV to MPEG2. I know that TMPGEnc Xpress will do this, but I'm having a slight problem with the configuration.

The first problem is - how do I get it to use source Audio and "NOT" re-encode the audio?
Secondly, when you select MPEG Output and use MPEG2 in TMPGEnc Xpress, it gives a "Profile Level" option - it has multiple choices - I have no clue what this is and what I should select.

So basically - if there's anyone who can help convert MKV to MPEG2, retaining it's HD Resolution (1080p), and possibly not re-encoding the audio at all, but instead using the demuxed AC3 or DTS from the MKV, into the MPEG2 - I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!

[Baldrick]

1. Tmpgenc xpress will probably always reconvert the audio but you can multiplex back the original audio from the mkv(mkvextractgui) to the new mpeg2 using tsmuxer.
2. Don't know.

[Mickey79]

1. Tmpgenc xpress will probably always reconvert the audio but you can multiplex back the original audio from the mkv(mkvextractgui) to the new mpeg2 using tsmuxer.
2. Don't know.

tsmuxer sound like the solution I'm looking for. Let me give it a shot!
Thanks!

[jman98]

The free HCenc can encode AVI, so if you can demux your MKV files and put it in an AVI container, it might work for you. TMPGenc is OK for some things and I sometimes use it to encode QuickTime stuff (long story short - I have serious AVIsynth issues on my PC that I can't resolve, so I use TMPGenc because I can't get AVIsynth to work correctly), but it has flaws. Even at high bit rates it still has more macroblocks than I would like. It does have an option to only encode video though. You have several choices for output and one of them is video only. If you can't figure it where it is, you can always demux the output it produces and just mux your original audio back with the new video.

Offhand I don't remember seeing a "Profile Level" option, so I don't know what you should do here. What options does it have?

[Mickey79]

jman98:

Here you go. I made some screens of what I was trying to do. Here's the options in TMPGEnc Xpress where I'm getting stuck...

- Once I input my x264 (MKV) file for Encoding, I'm assuming I have to use the "Do not use an audio source" option to just encode the video


- Is this the option I have to select to encode it to a Compliant MPEG2


- Here's the real questions. The ones circled in Red and with a "?" are the ones I'm having most difficulty with. Not sure what options to choose - I've chosen the ones I feel are the appropriate choices. I'll be changing the resolution to 1920 X 1080 in there as well...


Thanks guys!

[jman98]

Mickey79 - That was really helpful. I have an old version of TMPGenc Xpress and it doesn't look anything like that.

Selecting "Do not use an audio source" should be OK.

Selecting "MPEG file output" is also OK.

The values you circled on the last screen capture are all OK. However, the size is wrong. That's a PAL size for DVD. You need 1280x720 or 1920x1080 for HD DVD. Try to stick to 1920x1080 if you can. Ulead doesn't seem to like 1280x720. I have some instructions at home on how to trick it into using this. If your source video is 1280x720 and Ulead won't take it, send me a private message and later I'll find a link I saved at home that tells how to make Ulead take it.

Stream format, Output stream type and DC component precision are all fine. I'm not sure about Profile & Level but try that setting in your screen capture and see if it seems OK.

[Mickey79]

Mickey79 - That was really helpful. I have an old version of TMPGenc Xpress and it doesn't look anything like that.

Selecting "Do not use an audio source" should be OK.

Selecting "MPEG file output" is also OK.

The values you circled on the last screen capture are all OK. However, the size is wrong. That's a PAL size for DVD. You need 1280x720 or 1920x1080 for HD DVD. Try to stick to 1920x1080 if you can. Ulead doesn't seem to like 1280x720. I have some instructions at home on how to trick it into using this. If your source video is 1280x720 and Ulead won't take it, send me a private message and later I'll find a link I saved at home that tells how to make Ulead take it.

Stream format, Output stream type and DC component precision are all fine. I'm not sure about Profile & Level but try that setting in your screen capture and see if it seems OK.

Excellent!!
The resolution was my mistake actually. The source resolution is indeed 1920 X 1080 - so I set just that! I just started the encoding at the settings in the screen. I'll let you know how I make out.

Thanks!!

[jman98]

Here's the link I was talking about. If you go there and join (it's free), you can download the 2 programs it talks about. They might be helpful. Do note that some HD video TV sources actually use 1920x1088 and you WILL definitely need to patch these to 1080 or Ulead will re-encode your video. Trust me - you don't want Ulead to re-encode anything. On my single CPU 3200+ AMD system, it takes about 20-25 minutes to make a single layer DVD image and about 45 minutes to make a dual layer DVD image for burning as HD DVD. If it takes hours to make the images, suspect that Ulead has re-encoded. I also have noted that one 75 minute movie I had from a TV capture took a very long time to import into Ulead (over 1 hour I think) but it didn't re-encode it.

www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=705146

[Mickey79]

Here's the link I was talking about. If you go there and join (it's free), you can download the 2 programs it talks about. They might be helpful. Do note that some HD video TV sources actually use 1920x1088 and you WILL definitely need to patch these to 1080 or Ulead will re-encode your video. Trust me - you don't want Ulead to re-encode anything. On my single CPU 3200+ AMD system, it takes about 20-25 minutes to make a single layer DVD image and about 45 minutes to make a dual layer DVD image for burning as HD DVD. If it takes hours to make the images, suspect that Ulead has re-encoded. I also have noted that one 75 minute movie I had from a TV capture took a very long time to import into Ulead (over 1 hour I think) but it didn't re-encode it.

www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=705146

Hey, thanks for the link. I've been an AVS member for a while now - but was using it for something different. Anyhow, they've been having quite a few database error issues lately, but I think they're trying hard to resolve them. I do know about that guide, in fact, there's quite a few posts by me in that thread. The problem is that there's some extremely technical people in that thread and quite a few of the things they talk about just don't get to novice users like me.

Good thing is that my video sources are proper 1920 X 1080. I do have a 720p source, but I'll get to that later and at that point the HDpatch might be helpful.

So the only way to know that ULead is re-encoding is if it starts taking too long?
So you've actually successfully converted MKV's to HD-DVD using Ulead? What process did you use?

TMPGEnc Xpress is still going - is on to it's 2nd pass analysing my video. Will keep you posted with how it turns out.

Thanks!

[Mickey79]

jman98:

Wanted to update you. That encoding didn't work out very good, but before I actually began to scrutinize it, I did find out (from AVS) that I was doing something wrong.

Firsly, Output Stream Type should be MPEG-2 Transport (HDV HD2 mode), as opposed to MPEG-2 Program (VBR) that I had chosen earlier.

Also, Profile & Level needed to be MP&HL which is used for HD Video Content

Lastly, since I'm using source audio and not encoding it in TMPGEnc Xpress, I couldn't use the Calculator to calculate bitrate, as it didn't leave any room for audio. I had to Add the source audio's file size to my expected File Size in the Calculation to determine true bitrate.



I have it set to encode. I'll post back how I make out.

Thanks!

[jman98]

Mickey79 - I haven't yet encoded anything in an MKV container to HD DVD. The only HD DVDs I have made all used MPEG-2 source and were not re-encoded from anything else. I have an MKV file that eventually I'd like to try to put on HD DVD, but I haven't had time to encode it yet. Thanks for the follow up info as it surely will be useful to those of us who are interested in this kind of thing. Let us know how it goes.

[Mickey79]

Mickey79 - I haven't yet encoded anything in an MKV container to HD DVD. The only HD DVDs I have made all used MPEG-2 source and were not re-encoded from anything else. I have an MKV file that eventually I'd like to try to put on HD DVD, but I haven't had time to encode it yet. Thanks for the follow up info as it surely will be useful to those of us who are interested in this kind of thing. Let us know how it goes.

What application did you use to Author your HD-DVD using the MPEG-2 Source?

[jman98]

What application did you use to Author your HD-DVD using the MPEG-2 Source?

Ulead DVD MovieFactory Plus 6 with the HD DVD plugin. Take a look at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=705146
which is a very good guide to HD DVD authoring with this program. It also contains links to 2 programs for download that you will need if you are going to use Ulead. My HD DVD sources are all MPEG-2 HD TV captures.

[Mickey79]

Ulead DVD MovieFactory Plus 6 with the HD DVD plugin.

Is this any different then the Ulead Video Studio 11 Plus ? Any advantages Movie Factory has over Video Studio?

Take a look at:http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=705146 which is a very good guide to HD DVD authoring with this program. It also contains links to 2 programs for download that you will need if you are going to use Ulead.

Yeah, I'm all over that thread past page79. Quite honestly, the procedures have deviated quite a bit in that thread from that first post, primarily because VideoReDo doesn't accept MKV (Or x264) sources and a lot of people with MKV Containers stepped in for a similar result.

[jman98]

Ulead DVD MovieFactory Plus 6 with the HD DVD plugin.

Is this any different then the Ulead Video Studio 11 Plus ?

I don't know. Probably some differences, but I don't know what.

Any advantages Movie Factory has over Video Studio?

Movie Factory works. I don't know if Video Studio works.

[Mickey79]

Movie Factory works. I don't know if Video Studio works.

Quite honestly, that's pretty sufficient for me to switch to Movie Factory. I'll give it a shot instead of using Video Studio.

Also, I'm looking at Elcecard XMuxer Pro & Manzanita's MP2TSME for muxing DTS/AC3 & MPEG-2 ... I'll write back with how I make out. TMPGEnc's MPEG Tools won't mux DTS.

[Mickey79]

Didn't work out at all. I'm at a complete loss here.
I don't know if I'm doing something wrong - but the quality was just horrible. Too much macro-blocking - just not as good as I expected it to be. I've tried everything - MPEG-2 Transport (HDV HD2) and MPEG-2 Program (VBR) - they both produced a pretty choppy quality MPEG-2. Just not worth it.

I'm hitting a wall and running out of options.
What next?

[jman98]

Perhaps Ulead is re-encoding your video. That is a VERY BAD thing. The programs I mentioned on the link above and the article I talked about have suggestions on how to keep Ulead from re-encoding your source. You might try re-encoding with HCEnc to the desired size and bit rate and then use the patcher program to keep Ulead from re-encoding it.

[Mickey79]

Perhaps Ulead is re-encoding your video. That is a VERY BAD thing. The programs I mentioned on the link above and the article I talked about have suggestions on how to keep Ulead from re-encoding your source. You might try re-encoding with HCEnc to the desired size and bit rate and then use the patcher program to keep Ulead from re-encoding it.

I actually do want to give HCEnc a shot - because someone at AVS also suggested the same to me this morning. The only problem is - I have never used HCEnc and don't exactly know how to go about using it.

Can you point me in the right direction to any guide, tutorial or something for encoding my MKV -> MPEG-2 using HCEnc?

Thanks!

PS: The bad quality I was talking about is *before* i take the MPEG-2 to ULead. I looked at the resultant MPEG-2 that TMPGEnc Xpress encoded for me - and that's the bad quality MPEG-2. So it's not ULead, it's TMPGEnc Xpress.