Cinemacraft made my movie garbled, 1-inch high along bottom

[homerpez]

OK, what happened here...

I go ahead and encode a "Forced FILM", SeVCD, VBR MPEG-1 video doing DVD2AVI project file -> VAFPI converter --> .avs file (to resize) --> CCE 2.50 , and this is the result:

The frame size became 720x540, instead of 352x240. The "image" takes up the whole screen, but the top 3/4 is all black. The encoded picture only takes up about 75 pixels across the whole bottom, and is all garbled (but very colorful!).

When done, I can take this monstrous video and still multiplex it, and it is the proper filesize. But a lot of good that does with no picture! UGH!


Here are the settings I used. Since the preliminaries can't be screwed up, this is starting after I convert to fake VAFPI .avi file, and then make the .avs file:

-Trick CCE into opening up my new .avs file instead of the .avi...

-Edit the .avs file from a template. ONLY these settings are revealed (so more might be needed to add):

last = DirectShowSource( "D:\Video\vobs\kissed\kissed_d2v-vfapi.avi" )
last.bicubicresize(352,240)

-Then my settings in CCE:
Video File, "ES" , .m2v file
Info File, .vaf created (but crashed when you click advanced, even after it's made)
NO AUDIO FILE CHECKED
MULTIPASS VBR (5)
VIDEO SETTINGS: Quick Compress, Add sequence end code
Aspect Ratio 4:3
GOP SEQUENCE (left alone, M=3, N/M=5)
Restrict auto I-frame
IMAGE QUALITY: 25
FILTERING: 8


NOW... for good measure, here is the CCE project file:

; Cinema Craft Encoder SP -- Encoder Control List

[item]
title=kissed_d2v-vfapi.avi
vid_out=1
vaf_out=1
aud_out=0
vid_file0=D:\Video\vobs\kissed\kissedvid.mpv
vid_file1=D:\Video\vobs\kissed\kissedvid.mpv
vaf_file=D:\Video\vobs\kissed\kissedvid.vaf
aud_file=D:\Video\vobs\kissed\kissedvid.mpa
file_focused=0
encode_mode=0
packet_size=4096
timecode=0x1000000
width=720
height=480
vmode=2
frame_rate_idx=1
cbr_brate=6000
opv_q_factor=60
opv_brate_min=2000
opv_brate_max=9000
vbr_brate_avg=861
vbr_brate_min=0
vbr_brate_max=2500
vbr_bias=30
vbr_pass=5
quality_prec=25
use_filter=1
filter_val=8
seq_endcode=1
dvd=0
half_width=0
half_height=0
fast_mode=1
progressive=0
alternate_scan=1
non_linear=1
top_first=1
lum_level=0
intra_dc_prec=2
aspect_ratio=2
gop_m=3
gop_nm=5
gop_hdr=15
seq_hdr=1
all_closed_gop=0
fix_gop_length=1
mpeg1=1
mpeg1_cps=0
samples_per_sec=0
stereo=2
brate_idx=7
crc=1

[file]
name=D:\Video\vobs\kissed\kissed.avs
type=0
frame_first=0
frame_last=154563
encode_first=0
encode_last=154563

What made this happen?!?!? I can e-mail a pic if this has not happened to anyone before, so you can see (Sully?)

In the mean time, back to good ol' TMPGEnc, looks like...

[homerpez]

Maybe on to something here...

See the values in the CCE project file? It's trying to defy me, by making the frame size the same as the original! When I change:

width=720
height=480

to

width=352
height=240

It now produced the right size. And, when I load the .m2v file into TMPGEnc, it now shows the full frame at 352x240, and it's the right images, too!

I'd still like to know if this is it for sure, so please, anyone with information please tell me...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: homerpez on 2001-07-18 18:15:00 ]</font>

[Sully]

To start with CCE only pruduces quality MPEG-2, not MPEG-1. I've never personally tried it, but have heard a lot of bad things. Second choose PS, not ES. .mpv will then be produced.

For AVISynth... edit the .avs BEFORE you open it. Try an "easier" script

AVISource("C:\xxx.d2v-vfapi.avi&quot
BicubicResize(480,480)

Kinda short, let me know if this gives you at least a start.

[homerpez]

Hmm.. OK...

I think I've heard that CCE should (SHOULD, that is) be very good with MPEG-1 VBR as well, since it destributes VBR much better than TMPGEnc... but I'm not expecting to make it DRASTICALLY better than TMPGEnc, just better enough

The trick, though, is somehow the project file for CCE has to be tweaked.

Like you see above, it just left the resolution alone at 720x480, or whatever, while the .avs file did resize it properly to 352x240 behind it. So I think that's what screwed it up. When I produced about a minute of video stream (the ES, .mpv), it looked rather nice (I would assume better on a TV).

I guess if CCE is less blocky in the end, I wil go with that, but otherwise I'm having some doubts about it, and may just go back with TMPGEnc. Less fussy!

Since I never make SVCD's (too difficult to remove those !@#$ lines!), I may never know the true magesty of CCE's MPEG-2 ability.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: homerpez on 2001-07-19 06:11:32 ]</font>

[Sully]

Could be. I've only made standard MPEG-2 files for SVCD, which I feel is what CCE is really made for.

Again, try choosing PS (program steam). ES is basically tha same as choosing VIDEO ONLY in TMPGEnc.

What lines? The interlacing? If it's that changing the field order does wonders (VIDEO SETTINGS)!

[homerpez]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-07-19 06:17:33, Sully wrote:
Again, try choosing PS (program steam). ES is basically tha same as choosing VIDEO ONLY in TMPGEnc.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually that's the idea, since audio is done in another program, and I'll multiplex later using bbMPEG. So a plain old ES is fine...

On SVCD, yes it's the interlace... so what you're saying is if I take NTSC 29.97 fps from DVD, and it's interlaced, just swap field order and all is well? Or should I go from FORCED FILM, and run the 3:2 pulldown? (it's OK if you don't know this, since said you only do PAL)...

Thanks!

[Sully]

Yes, but use PS. All I can say is trust me. I had a .pdf manual, but can't find it right now. If I remember correctly CC also states to use the PS mode.

Swapping the field order hepls get rid of the interlace line & jerkiness with CCE. Whether you HAVE to use forced film in DVD2AVI I don't know. If I'm not mistaken, you then use pulldown after encoding. Anybody that can correct me please do.

[VidGuy]

PS is Program Stream - that's what you want - ES is Elemental Stream - you don't want one - nothing works with them. The PDF is quite clear, as Sully said.. It actually never said why you would ever want an ES...

CCE is very good at MPeg1 VBR. for low bitrates (like 930kbps) - it beats it's MPeg2 VBR quite handily.

When you used the avi->avs trick you have to make sure to fix the frame size in the ecl file or you will get the results you got. Why? Because the d2v->avi file is still 720 x 480, whereas the avs is cutting it down to 352 x 480.

Use pulldown.exe and FORCED FILM whenever possible. Otherwise, you have to mess around figuring out which field is first for interlaced stuff. Most movies do well with FORCED FILM. Only occasionally (probably 1 movie out of 20 or 25) do I have to resort to inverse telecine to get 23.976.

[homerpez]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-07-19 16:26:43, VidGuy wrote:
PS is Program Stream - that's what you want - ES is Elemental Stream - you don't want one - nothing works with them. The PDF is quite clear, as Sully said.. It actually never said why you would ever want an ES...</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Doesn't "ES" mean just plain movie data? (No headers, etc.) Why would this become a problem when muxed with an audio, to make a full audio/video "PS"? (Or do I misunderstand?)

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>When you used the avi->avs trick you have to make sure to fix the frame size in the ecl file or you will get the results you got. Why? Because the d2v->avi file is still 720 x 480, whereas the avs is cutting it down to 352 x 480.</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Been there, done that... spread the word! (Sully's tutorial, though very good, didn't include this info!)

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>Use pulldown.exe and FORCED FILM whenever possible.</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Pulldown.exe? What's the problem with just encoding with TMPGEnc, or CCE, and using it there? Does it cause problems?

Just trying to get educated

[Sully]

Yes, ES creates (or is suppossed to create) just "a plain ol'" video data file. With CCE you want to create a PROGRAM STREAM though! It doesn't take any longer (or shorter) or anything like that, it's just what CCE uses to create it's video files. It's not TMPGEnc.

You're right I didn't include that tip. That's why I just put up the guide as a regular post... to get feedback so it can be re-worked, while already trying to give some help for people trying to get started using CCE.

VidGuy will have to help with the pulldown thing. I'm lucky to have PAL, so I don't have to bother with that.

[disturbed1]

Here's the thing, this guy wants to create a 352x240 resoultion file. Why not use VFAPI to contert the .d2v to avi. Load that avi into CCE, and check 1/2 horizontal, and 1/2 vertical resolution?
Your output would be 352x240. 23.976fps if forced film was checked in DVD2AVI. Make sure you check progressive frames in CCE.

I don't see the reason the to frame a d2v file into vfapi, then serve into avisynth, then into CCE. Too much frame serving too slow.

If you feel the need to frame serve do it with YUY2 much faster. Just use load mpeg2dec into the avs script to decode the d2v file and frame serve that way. Here's your script..

loadplugin("C:\yourfolder\mpeg2dec.dll")
mpeg2filesource(C:\yourfolder\filename.d2v")
bicubicresize(480x360)
addboarders(0,60,0,60)

That's for 480x480 SVCD 16x9.

Pulldown adds the needed flags to achieve 29.97fps play back on a stand alone player. Drag your mpv file over pulldown.exe, and it does it automaticlly for you. Depending on your O/S, the new file may end up in C:\Windows, or the same dir. as your mpv. Then mux with BBmpeg18 NOT 16 or 17 but 18! 16 and 17 had svcd byte offset problems that caused lost A/V sync after FF/RW.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: disturbed1 on 2001-07-20 09:06:05 ]</font>

[VidGuy]

Only use pulldown.exe if you made a 23.976 fps MPeg2 file. For MPEg1 - just leave the video at 23.976. However, for MPeg2, you want to have pulldown.exe add the pulldown flags to convers 23.976 to 29.97.

Yes - if you can use the mpeg2dec plugin. It definitely speeds things up. However, disturbed1 - it's not the frameserving that slows things down - that goes pretty fast - it's the conversion from YUY2 to RBG.

As for Elementary Streams, I don't know exactly what they are - all I know is that nothing seems to work with them, at least the way that CCE creates them.

[homerpez]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-07-21 10:36:37, VidGuy wrote:
As for Elementary Streams, I don't know exactly what they are - all I know is that nothing seems to work with them, at least the way that CCE creates them.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

...I guess this is important, then, even though so far the .mpg seems to play nicely (haven't burned yet)...

Any way to take the "ES" stream and make a "PS" stream, WITHOUT encoding?... Did I maybe already do it and not know?...

[Sully]

Once you've created the elementary stream it's too late. You need to choose PS BEFORE encoding.

VidGuy - Did you have a problem getting mpeg2dec to work? Sonded that way. I was thinking of giving it a try.

disturbed1 - where can you DL mpeg2dec. Checked here, but didn't find it.

[disturbed1]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-07-22 01:52:59, Sully wrote:
Once you've created the elementary stream it's too late. You need to choose PS BEFORE encoding.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Just wondering why it is that you recomend PS? To my understanding, an ES, elementary stream, is a video only stream, PS, is a program stream, it's a muxed stream. In the case of encoding only video wouldn't choosing this option only inflate your file to include the un-needed flags and padding that is done when you multiplex your .mpv and .mpa together?

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
disturbed1 - where can you DL mpeg2dec. Checked here, but didn't find it.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>
it's in the mail.

[Sully]

Thanks, got it.

Have you been using ES? With good results?

As I mentioned (& VidGuy confirmed) it even states in the CCE PDF guide to use the PS setting. It could be they intend on you encoding audio simultaniously, which I (we) don't want to do. They never do mention in any way why or how you should or could use ES. I've tried using the ES once & it crashed. Been using PS ever since without any problems (just don't forget to uncheck the audio file box).

[disturbed1]

I only use ES. I only create video streams with CCE, that's why I always choose ES. I've never done a PS with CCE.

But every SVCD I've made has turned out flawless. I'll have to read that PDF again, I only scanned through it.

Here's what my PDF for CCE 2.5 says Page 28of64

"Specifying stream pass Cinema Craft Encoder SP can set
the type of a stream to be output. ES (Elementary Stream) or
PS (Program Stream) can be set. ES is a stream with video
only, and PS is a stream where video and audio are mixed. The extension of the initial setting of ES is .mpv, and the extension
of the initial setting of PS is .mpg."



I've used the ES option for every combo I can think of, MPEG1, and 2, CBR, VBR, and multi pass upto 4. Never had a crash, or bad output.

The only problem I've ever had is CCE's total disregaurd for MAX bitrate setting. I just did ANTZ with multipass VBR (3passes) 1750 (avg), 500 (min), 2200 (max), even with 3 passes the bitrate peaked at 2732 with an avg of 2176! With one pass it peaked at 2857! That's a pretty far cry from the 2200 I set.

[Sully]

distrubed1 - Reading your post, I guess CCE automatically switches to ES (even if the dot is on PS) when audio is unchecked. I'll have to check it out next time I encode.

Can't find the manual, but I'm sure that's what it says there. So much for my memory!

Guess you learn something new every day.

[homerpez]

Well shut my mouth!

Apparently Sully (and others) are on to something here...

If you can help it, do NOT encode to an ES stream on CCE! I go to burn the 777MB VCd file in NERO, suddenly it explodes to something like 889MB and can't be burned!!!

Now, things brings up a good question... if this has already been done, is there some way of multiplexing it better, so it's not read this way again? (I deleted my source video!)