Different HDTV's

[manny00]

Hi you should first know i'm kind of a noob to hd stuff but i am getting to grips as we speak, so please try and understand me.

I am looking to purchase a HDTV for a ps3, I'm going to go for a 26" possibly with a budget of £600 or so. Now i don't know a whole lot about all the HD stuff but I have been reading a up quite a bit on HD and doing my research and continue to do so.

Most of the HDTV's seem to have a resolution of 1366x768 even though you only will be receiving 720p.

Ok now this is probably a stupid question on the 1080i I am a bit unclear on this, yes the 'i' is for interlaced so it will have a lower fps than 720p because 720p is progressive; thing is isn't the '1080' supposed to reflect the resolution as 1920x1080 so how come HDTV's with resolutions at 1366x768 able to have 1080i, Its to do with downscaling or something isn't it but still what res is 1080i on 1366x768 tv.

Now I have been able to find a HDTV that seems decent but I need to know what you guys think.

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/128473
click on specification for further detail

Now here is a another hdtv just for comparison that costs more than the one above
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/121097/show_product_specifications

Looking at the specs the samsung hdtv has a higher contrast ratio, is HDCP compatible; Also the Toshiba hdtv only has 720p as 'input video format' when the Samsung has 720p, 1080i and others. So how come the Toshiba one costs more?

Overall what to do you make of the samsung hdtv is there anything you think that could be better?

should it have higher brightness number? Is the contrast ratio good?
I do notice it has a 8ms response time, i'm thinking i should look for something lower for a HDTV?

The contrast ratio seems pretty high but the brightness is low, will that affect quality?

Ok just noticed that the samsung hdtv has dynamic contrast ratio, so what does that mean, i think its not good as normal contrast ratio. This hdtv seems too cheap to be really good but then again what do i know, thats why I've come to you guys.

Oh and one other question from what i read its best to have 720p or 1080p so since the hdtv i am looking at has 1080i and 720p, will i be able to toggle the resolution to 720p if it is isn't already.

Thanks all

[gshelley61]

HDTV signals include two frame resolutions... 1280x720 and 1920x1080. 1280x720 signals have progressive scan frames, 1920x1080 can have either interlaced fields or progressive scan frames.

Fixed pixel HD displays come in a variety of different native pixel arrangements. 1280x720p, 1024x768p, and 1366x768p are pretty common for smaller screen sizes... there's even a few Hitachi plasmas that are 1024x1080i (very unusual because nearly all fixed pixel displays are progressive, not interlaced). Larger screen sizes tend to be 1920x1080p native these days.

All incoming signals to any display are scaled by the display to match its native resolution (unless the signal frame resolution already matches the screen's native resolution). So, if your display is 1366x768p native, then incoming 1920x1080i and 1920x1080p signals will be downscaled to 1366x768p. For 720p signals (and your PAL television, DVD and VCR signals), the display will upscale to 1366x768p.

As to what specific model to buy, it really depends on several factors - starting with room size and typical viewing distance. A larger room requires a larger screen size. The ability to visibly benefit from a high resolution HDTV depends alot on how big the screen is and how far you sit from it. Keep in mind that only 1920x1080p native resolution displays can actually produce all the potential image detail available with 1080i and 1080p sources.

Have a look at this article about screen size, viewing distance and native resolution:

http://www.carltonbale.com/2006/11/1080p-does-matter/

[jman98]

I have a Samsung HDTV that can do 1080p. I'd point you to the model number, but I believe that they no longer make this exact model and it only was sold in North America. It has 8ms response time. Anything at 8ms or less is fine.

Do note that the results you get with any HDTV depend 100% on the quality of the connections you have to it. I am getting excellent results from everything that I watch on the TV, including standard definition cable. You MUST use a high quality input for everything for best results. High quality video inputs include:
Cable card (may only be sold in the USA - don't know - it replaces a cable box)
HDMI
Component
DVI

High quality video inputs DO NOT include:
Composite
S-Video
SCART (we don't use this in the USA)
old style coax cable as used in the USA to connect older cable boxes to TVS

The other really important thing to do is that you MUST be willing to switch your picture between 4:3 and 16:9 to match the aspect ratio of your source video. It makes a huge difference, more than you can imagine. Standard definition 4:3 video when stretched to 16:9 looks like crap. A lot of people here in the USA take the easy way out and just leave their TVs in 16:9 all the time. You won't get good results by doing that. I have found that people who complain about how "bad" standard definition TV looks on their HDTV either watch everything in 16:9, used a low quality video connection from their cable box to the TV, or both.

[manny00]

Thanks for clearing up the 1080i confusion.

Yeah I heard about needing to switch aspect ratio for standard definition video or it will look stretched and thanks for connections tip too.

btw the hdtv will be in my bedroom which isn't too big so am looking for something like 26"-32". I can't see any hdtv in that size having 1080p so if i get a hdtv with 1080p it'll probably be for the living room.

I'm starting to notice quite a few hdtv's have dynamic contrast ratio, how big of a difference will that be from normal contrast ratio.

http://www.panasonic.co.uk/lcd-tv/tx-26lmd70/index.htm - 7000:1

[rcguy1]

The PS3 is capable of 1080P so you should buy a HDTV capable of 1080P resolution. It's that simple. Also, the PS3 has a Blu-ray player and you will need a 1080P tv to take advantage of this player.

[jagabo]

You can't trust the specs manufactures give for contrast ratio and response time. They all measure them in different ways. They may even measure different models differently. This is done simply to get the best possible numbers. Look for independent reviews. If possible, see them for yourself somewhere where you can adjust the settings. And somewhere where the lighting is similar to where you will be using it.

Dynamic Contrast (dymamic sure sounds better than static doesn't it?): This is the difference between the brightest and darkest levels the TV can display. But NOT at the same time. The brightest measurement may be taken with the backlight turned all the way up, with the brightest possible all white picture, in a brightly lit room. The darkest meeasurement may be taken with the backlight turned all the way down while displaying an all black video, in a dark room.

Static Contrast Ratio: the difference between the lightest and darkest parts of the image while displaying a single picture. Usually something like a black and white checkerboard pattern. This is a more realistic measurement.

Most LCD's now have sufficient contrast ratio. More important that contrast is the black level, especially if you plan to watch in a dark room. The darker the black level the better.

Simliar "tricks" can be played with response time. The time it takes an LCD to switch from full black to full white is different from the time it takes to switch from full white to full black. Similarly, the time to switch between different shades of gray vary. Manufactureres will pick whatever suits them.

[manny00]

ok, 1080p is the way to go rather and to keep it future proof, so that way i'll go as it seems more 1080p tv's are popping up at a relatively affordable price. but i guess 1080p will only be useful when watching blue ray, and playing games as tv's won't broadcast 1080p.

[gshelley61]

i guess 1080p will only be useful when watching blue ray, and playing games as tv's won't broadcast 1080p.

No, 1080p native displays are great for 1080i HD broadcast signals, too. Remember that 1080i and 1080p both have exactly the same number of pixels per frame... 1920x1080. In fact, I'd say even 1280x720p HD broadcast signals look better on my 1080p set than they did on the two 720p sets I owned in the past.

[jagabo]

I agree with gshelly61, there's no reason not to get a 1080p HDTV now -- unless you really can't afford it or you're always going to be viewing from long distances relative to the screen size.

Keep in mind that 720p HDTVs will resize the incoming 720p video to fit the native resolution of the screen (plus a little more for overscan). So both 1080p and 720p HDTVs resize an incoming 720p frame. So a 1080p HDTV can look better than the 720p HDTV with a 720p source. And obviously a 720p display has to downsize an incoming 1080i/p signal. There are a few 1080p HDTVs now that have the option of pixel-for-pixel disply where the 1920x1080 frame is mapped 1:1 with the display -- just like you do with computer monitors. The problem with this is that you often see broadcast artifacts in outer area that's normally hidden by overscan. Both 720p and 1080p displays must IVTC or deinterlace an incoming 1080i signal.

1080i CRT HDTVs typically don't have small enought dot pitches to fully resolve the 1920x1080 image. In fact, most of them can only really resolve somewhere around 720p or less!

[kosekjm]

Hi there,

Just my thought, do you need a HDTV, or could you do what you want with an HD monitor? Do you need the included HD tuner that a TV should give you, or are you really only going to be using the monitor for gaming and watching DVDs/BluRay?

I currently have my PS3 hooked up to my Samsung 20" (206BW) LCD monitor with a DVI-HDMI cable. The PS3 plays great on this monitor setup. Granted it is not running at full 1080P (Monitor is capable of 1680x1050) but the PS3 games (and bluray/dvd movies) look outstanding as well.

I had this monitor prior to getting the PS3, and since its the closest ting that I currently have to HD, figured it'd be the best spot to hook up the PS3. I've seen other monitors (Dell, Viewsonic, etc) that are 24" or better that now do 1920x1080 for as low as $550 (Even lower if you look at the lesser known brands). this seems like it should be in your quoted budget.

The only problem with my setup, is that I do not get sound through the monitor, however this is setup in my computer room and I run the sound into my computer's speakers. But there are monitors that have sound capabilities, although not sure if any take the sound through an HDMI connector or not.

Might not be what you are looking for, but figured I'd offer one other solution.

I would recommend a 1080P capable display though. People argue about the benefits on that small of a screen, but if you have the capabliliteis to hook up 1080 (Which the PS3 can) why not use it? If you are going to run HDMI make sure the monitor can handle the HDCP signal as well.

Again just my two cents (Or pence for you )

[jagabo]

A warning about gaming on HDTVs: the display processing that many HDTVs perform leads to significant lag. Look for HDTVs with a "game mode".

Sharp has 1080p (native resolution) LCD HDTVs down to 32 inches now. Here's one designed for gamers:

http://www.amazon.com/Sharp-Aquos-LC32GP1U-1080p-Gaming/dp/B000NKAYWG/ref=pd_bbs_sr_5/...1978749&sr=8-5

I'm not recommending it, I don't know anything about it. Just thought I'd point it out.

[manny00]

Thanks for the suggestion about the hd monitor which is a good idea but I'm afraid I am looking for a HDTV where I can watch tv too as I'm replacing my current tv in the bedroom. My quoted budget £600, I'll stretch it up to £1k for a 1080p tv.

[WuTangDvD]

In fact, I'd say even 1280x720p HD broadcast signals look better on my 1080p set than they did on the two 720p sets I owned in the past.

what?!?!

So a 1080p HDTV can look better than the 720p HDTV with a 720p source. And obviously a 720p display has to downsize an incoming 1080i/p signal.

Just No way....

you have to scale the freaking image. how can a scaled image look better than the source.

[gshelley61]

I said that 720p sources (like Fox, ABC, ESPN HD) look better on my 1080p DLP than they did on the two 720p DLP's I owned. They do, it's just that simple. The higher resolution screen, plus the darker blacks, enhanced contrast, more accurate color reproduction and improved signal processing with the 1080p set all work together to create a very nice image, especially if the source content is decent. HD sources, whether they are 1080i or 720p are generally excellent high resolution images to start with (other than some compression artifacts associated with cable delivery in my case). The scalers in most of the newer name brand sets are excellent. It's not that big of a problem to scale from 1280x720 to 1920x1080. Certainly way easier than scaling from 720x480 to 1920x1080.

[WuTangDvD]

i can understand that.

But a high end 720P TV is the best way to display a 720P signal.........

after all my research I have to be getting this one right.

[gshelley61]

i can understand that.

But a high end 720P TV is the best way to display a 720P signal.........

after all my research I have to be getting this one right.

Remember that there are few 1280x720p native HDTV's out there that do not overcan (which also requires a little bit of zooming/scaling to crop the 1280x720 source frame edges). Most of the current "720p" displays are actually 1024x768p or 1366x768p anyway... again, requiring a small amount of scaling for 720p sources.

Most HD broadcast is 1920x1080i, and high def discs are virtually all 1920x1080i or 1920x1080p. Having 1080p displays makes the most sense in the long run, as 720p does look excellent on them as well.

[jagabo]

i can understand that.

But a high end 720P TV is the best way to display a 720P signal.........

after all my research I have to be getting this one right.

As gshelley61 pointed out there aren't many 720p HDTV's that have 1280x720 native resolution and don't overscan. Here a real world example of 1:1 pixel mapping vs scaling for overscan:

https://forum.videohelp.com/topic338200.html#1761333

And as I explained in your other thread, upscaling by a lot can look better than upscaling by a little:

https://forum.videohelp.com/topic337994.html#1759462

[WuTangDvD]

I dont want to sound like a Jerk, but I dont care what you guys say, 720P signal looks better on 768p TV than it does on a 1080P

besides that picture jagbo posted in the other thread I see no other source for such information.