Unwanted 'Underscan' In Liquid Edition DVDs?

[foxbox]

After exporting my finished 16:9 film from Liquid Edition 6 to DVD, I notice that when played in the wrong aspect ratio, there are ugly flashing lines and small blocks present around the parameter of the picture.

Am I seeing the film in all its 'underscan' glory? If so, why? Surely selecting different aspect ratios on my TV should only result in squeezing or stretching the picture, as with normal DVDs?

The film plays correctly in 'letterbox' mode on my TV, but in 4:3 or 16:9 (with black strips above and below) these ugly 'outside' artifacts are present.

I notice that for the parts of the film when I have increased the picture size, i.e. zoomed in to over 100% of the picture, the picture here fills the screen fully even in the wrong aspect ratio. However when (most of) the film is seen in normal 100% picture size, wrong aspect ratio is revealing these unwanted lines and blocks around the parameter.

Note: I do not get this problem on my TV with a film I shot, edited and exported in 4:3 - even in wrong aspect ratio, there are no parameter problems.

However, there is evidence of 'underscan' when I have fused this 4:3 film and watched it through Windows Media Player as an AVI. The 16:9 film played as a fused AVI displays this too.

My DVD player is basic and does not appear to have any 'underscan' options within it, nor does my TV set (plus I have noticed the same problem using different DVD players and TVs). There does not appear to be an 'underscan'/'overscan' option when exporting from Liquid - only an option to view the output in either of these modes while editing.

I hope I have provided enough information so far - any help much appreciated.

[guns1inger]

What was the source video ? Was it DV ?
Can you post screenshots ?

[foxbox]

Sorry for delay in replying, have only just managed to return to this issue.

I am having the same problem with my latest project. The source for all of my work is indeed DV (from miniDV tapes through firewire, various cameras).

UPDATE:-

Have experimented with several different media players on my computer (WMP, VLC, PowerDVD) and all are producing the same 'underscan' effect when I make a fused AVI. I get the same results when making a DVD and watch it in wrong aspect ratio on my TV.

Again, my latest film is in 16:9, created with Liquid Edition 6. I have checked the AVI file made from a fused Liquid project in 4:3 and this suffers the same underscanning effect. When I view my timeline in Liquid with 'underscan' mode switched on, this is exactly what I am seeing in my DVDs and fused AVI files.

I have tried to attach a screenshot, but for some frustrating reason using the Print Screen command instists on moving the damn image I am trying to show you within the surroundings of the Media Player! Therefore I have scribbled some notes on the picture to try and show you what is happening.

Please bear in the mind, the picture on the media player has been moved a bit in the screen capturing process . What I actually get, is around 0.75cm of black space on either side of the screen. On the top of the screen, there is a broken line which flickers throughout, and sometimes a series of thin flashing dashes.

If it helps, I often see this effect on television, especially during some news broadcasts! it's not my TV, it must be some kind of unwanted 'underscanning'?

Like I say, neiher my TV or DVD player has underscan/overscan selectors.

It is fair enough this underscan detail being available during the editing process, but I really want it gone now for exporting to AVI files and DVD.

Hope the image attachment works and is some help!

cheers

EDIT

Sorry the attachment did not work, and would not show the frozen shot of the video. Hopefully somebody has enough to go on to try and fathom out what is happening?

[guns1inger]

I assume "Fused" is a liquid edition term, as it is not one I am familiar with in this context.

[foxbox]

Yes - it basically creates an AVI file of everything as it is on the timeline, including all effects.

To test how things will look upon exporting to DVD, I use the 'fuse' process as any glitches or conflicts (between different effects etc) I have learned show up in the AVI file just as they would on disc.

[guns1inger]

The only think I can suggest it that either the project settings or the asset settings are not correct or not being recognised correctly.

[edDV]

Possible to post a frame?

What camcorder model and was the camcorder switched to wide mode?

[foxbox]

Sorry for delay in replying.

Cannot post any screenshots at present unfortunately, but I can confirm that what I am seeing in my fused/exported films is definitely the 'underscan' effect. I have studied the films in 'underscan' mode in the viewing window of Liquid Edition, and I see the same 'edges' of certain shots as I do when I watch the fused/exported films on PC or TV.

Sadly I cannot find out the camcorder model for a while as the cameras that were used are unavailable for access at the moment. I know they are Panasonic, around £5-6k models...

The camera was set to 16:9 for recording - not 4:3 or 'letterbox'.

[jagabo]

Apparently all the noise is "in the picture". You normally don't see it on TV because the TV overscans the image. When you encode with the wrong aspect ratio the DVD player is putting the parts of the frame that would normally be hidden by overscan into the viewable area.

Cover the noise with black bars if you want to remove it. Editors usually have Fill (fill a rectangular block with a color), Mask, or Overlay features to handle this sort of thing.

[foxbox]

Thank you for your reply, though I can confirm the film was shot, digitised, edited and burnt all in 16:9.

I understand the use of 'underscan' during the editing process - i.e. to examine the 'outer borders' of the picture.

However, I have been experiencing problems with it surfacing throughout playback of my completed films.

I have made much trial and error, and with more experiments today this is what I have found so far:-

* exporting 16:9 film to DVD plays fine (i.e. no visible underscan at all) with DVD player set to 'wide' and TV set to any ratio. However with DVD player set to 'letterbox' or 'normal', the underscan pops up when I then experiment with different ratios on my TV

* exporting 4:3 film to DVD plays fine (i.e. no visible underscan) with DVD player on any setting and TV at any ratio

* 'Fusing' 16:9 film as as 'avi' file displays the picture in underscan on my computer - I have tried opening the avi in several different players, and changing the aspect ratio within those players does not ever 'zoom' the underscan out of the picture

* 'Fusing' 4:3 film as 'avi' file displays the picture in underscan on my computer - I have tried opening the avi in several different players, and changing the aspect ratio within those players does not ever 'zoom' the underscan out of the picture

I am concerned about two things:-

1] If viewers of my film do not have their DVD player correctly set to 'wide', my 16:9 film may be revealed with underscan if their TV ratio is not appropriately set. This will make the film look terrible in places - can I do anything within Liquid to stop this from happening? With everything encoded correctly, there should be no need for this outside 'noise' to be able to come into view at all, just like a retail DVD.

2] What is up with the 'fuse' process of Liquid displaying an underscanned picture? There must be a way to make an avi-fuse in normal overscan?


Thank you for any advice.

:thumbsup:

[jagabo]

Mask the noise and it won't be an issue -- ever.