Changing VOB Aspect Ratio

[skywalka]

Hi guys.

I have a VOB file that is 16:9 but should be 4:3. So I used DVD Patcher to convert it to 4:3.
When I play the VOB in VLC, WMP, MPC it is still 16:9.
When I play the VOB in Winamp it is 4:3.
If I open the VOB in DVD Patcher again it says it is 4:3.
MediaInfo still says it is 16:9.

A Kind of Magic (2).vob
Format                                   : MPEG-PS
File size                                : 299 MiB
Duration                                 : 4mn 40s
Overall bit rate                         : 8 930 Kbps

Video
ID                                       : 224 (0xE0)
Format                                   : MPEG Video
Format version                           : Version 2
Format profile                           : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP                    : Yes
Format settings, Matrix                  : Default
Duration                                 : 4mn 40s
Bit rate                                 : 5 500 Kbps
Width                                    : 720 pixels
Height                                   : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate                               : 29.970 fps
Standard                                 : NTSC
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Interlaced
Scan order                               : Top Field First
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.531
Stream size                              : 184 MiB (62%)
Color primaries                          : SMPTE 170M
Transfer characteristics                 : SMPTE 170M
Matrix coefficients                      : SMPTE 170M

Audio #1
ID                                       : 189 (0xBD)-130 (0x82)
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension                           : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness              : Big
Muxing mode                              : DVD-Video
Duration                                 : 4mn 40s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 192 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 6.42 MiB (2%)

Audio #2
ID                                       : 189 (0xBD)-137 (0x89)
Format                                   : DTS
Format/Info                              : Digital Theater Systems
Format profile                           : 96/24 / Core
Muxing mode                              : DVD-Video
Duration                                 : 4mn 40s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 1 510 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                            : 96.0 KHz / 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 24 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 50.5 MiB (17%)

Audio #3
ID                                       : 189 (0xBD)-160 (0xA0)
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings, Endianness              : Big
Format settings, Sign                    : Signed
Muxing mode                              : DVD-Video
Duration                                 : 4mn 40s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 1 536 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Stream size                              : 51.4 MiB (17%)

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[JimmyS]

I have seen the same result a few times in the past if I selected 'First Header Only' in the Patch selection area. Usually worked properly if 'Entire File' was selected.

[poisondeathray]

you can try restream as well , but I think it only takes elementary video (you would have to demux and remux or reauthor)

[skywalka]

Thanx for the replies.

I definitely selected "Entire File".

What is "elementary video"?

I opened the VOB in restream & it detected it as 4:3.

[manono]

Thanx for the replies.

I definitely selected "Entire File".

What is "elementary video"?

I opened the VOB in restream & it detected it as 4:3.

If ReStream says it's 4:3 then it is. That tells me that maybe you've messed with the AR playback for some of your players and have them set to play back as 16:9 when they should be set for 'source' or 'original' or 'default' or something like that.

I don't know why MediaInfo might still say it's 16:9. This is a single VOB you're talking about, right? And not a DVD with the additional IFO and BUP files?

Elementary video means the video alone (without the audio). If you want to separate the two, one way is to open the VOB in DGIndex and then File->Save Project and Demux Video.

[skywalka]

Checked the AR settings & they are set to "Default" etc.

It's a single VOB. At the beginning of the clip cover art is displayed then fades to black. I'd assumed this was just normal DVD video. Maybe it's not?

Thanks for clarifying "elementary video".

[DB83]

If this VOB has been ripped from the dvd "Queen The DVD Collection Greatest Hits 2", the correct AR is 16:9

I own this DVD and just played the clip and can confirm it plays as 16:9

If you think it should be 4:3 then I would imagine you are looking at an anamorphic 4:3 frame.

[manono]

Thanks, DB83, for identifying the DVD. And you're right, with some possible exceptions. This review of the R4 Australian DVD does say it's 16:9, but also points out some encoding errors on some of the songs:

http://www.michaeldvd.com.au/Reviews/Reviews.asp?ID=3785

skywalka's VOB is of the song 'A Kind Of Magic', one which was supposed to have been 4:3.

[DB83]

I would concur. The picture looks a little 'flat'. A bit like you get if you merely stretch a 4:3 frame to fill a 16:9 one.

From the back of the box (This is the UK release but I would have thought that all would come from the same master) - "All videos on Disk One (these are the main promos) are restored and shown as 16:9 widescreen......

But, surely, you can not simply change an AR flag to correct this. The video would have to be re-authored.

[manono]

The author of the review mentions it's a problem for both the R4 and the R2 DVDs. And yes, changing the DAR flag for a VOB extracted from the DVD should fix the problem. It wasn't properly prepared to be encoded as 16:9 which, for an original 1.33:1 source, would have meant cropping from the top and bottom as was done for some of the others in the collection.

I don't know why DVD Patcher couldn't fix it so all his players would play it correctly. I don't use DVD Patcher for this kind of thing, but would recommend (as did pdr) demuxing, fixing the DAR in ReStream, and then remuxing with Muxman. Except ReStream already says it's 4:3, so maybe demuxing/remuxing will be enough to fix it.

[skywalka]

Yes that is the DVD I extracted the VOB from. If you change the aspect ratio in your player to 4:3 you will see that the clip then looks correct. The music video is also an extra on the Highlander DVD where it is shown at the correct AR but with black bars on the sides (I think the term is non-anamorphic).

I've never muxed anything. Do you recommended Muxman to demux too?

There are 3 audio tracks (commentary etc). Will that be a problem? While I'm on the topic, the commentary is the track being played by all the players as default. Is there a way to change that?

[DB83]

This is an odd-ball.

I took a little time out and ripped the vob from my dvd. The disk is PAL 25fps all region. I noticed that the OP's vob is NTSC.

When I ripped the vob, mediainfo reports an AR of 2.40:1. I play this on a 4:3 monitor and borders are much wider than 16:9. If I play the VOB through vlc and change the AR to 4:3 it looks much more normal.

So I then ran dvd-patcher and patched the entire vob to 4:3. It now plays back in vlc at default AR and looks much better. Mediainfo now reports the patched file at 16:9 - rememebr it did say 2.40:1 - try and figure that one out (there are still slight borders). I made a copy of the vob before I patched it so I can post the two reports if you want to see them.

[skywalka]

Did your rip contain the coverart before the music video?

[DB83]

Did your rip contain the coverart before the music video?

Yes.

[manono]

Do you recommended Muxman to demux too?

No, Muxman only muxes. I already explained earlier one way to demux (by using DGIndex).

There are 3 audio tracks (commentary etc). Will that be a problem?

No, when being remuxed just add in the audio tracks one-by-one.

While I'm on the topic, the commentary is the track being played by all the players as default. Is there a way to change that?

No, not when it's being played as a VOB. If you were to play it as a little 'mini-DVD' then you could choose the audio track, just as with any DVD (and the first track will be the default one).

Muxman will create a DVD for you. You can choose to toss out the accompanying IFO and BUP files and just keep the VOB, or not.

By the way, you can also do a proper conversion of the song to 16:9 and then add it back to the DVD. This means either cropping the top and bottom or adding black to the sides before then resizing and reencoding it as 16:9.

I noticed that the OP's vob is NTSC.

Thanks again. That's the first time I've noticed that. The reason I chose the review of the R4 DVD is because skywalka is in Australia and I figured that's the one he'd have.

[skywalka]

I was curious so I used DGIndex to get a demuxed m2v. Got this error message:

Too many pictures per GOP (>= 500).
DGIndex will terminate.

But the resultant partial m2v (2m:14s) behaved the same as the VOB in the players.

ReStream detected the m2v as 4:3 though only Winamp played it at this AR. I converted it to 16:9 to see what would happen & it simply squashed the picture vertically even more. However if I try & convert the original demuxed file to 4:3 there is no horizontal squashing.
If I convert the m2v I vertically squashed more to 4:3 the end result appears the same as the original demuxed file (so the squash is removed). Converting that again to 4:3 doesn't appear to change anything.

[manono]

All very strange. If you wouldn't mind uploading that VOB somewhere (Sendspace, MediaFire, etc.) I'm sure some of us wouldn't mind having a look at it.

[DB83]

Yeah, I would like to see the original vob - before any patching muxing etc. - if only to compare with the one I have.

Could I also ask what you used to rip the vob ? Just in case that program created issues of its own. I used dvd-decrypter.

With all the confusion about AR, may I also remind you that the vob you have is NTSC 720*480. Any patching etc. will have to retain that even tho you are 'Down Under' in PAL-land. If you in-advertently patch etc to 720*576 the clip will look even more strange.

[skywalka]

Sorry, I didn't make a copy of the file before I used DVDPatcher on it. I thought if there was a problem I could just change it back to 16:9.

I'm uploading it now in case you still want to examine it but the going is slow.

Thanks for the AR info. I'm aware of the different resolutions so won't put the wrong settings.

[skywalka]

Link to the VOB:
http://depositfiles.com/files/lt68ywg9u

I used DVD Decrypter in IFO mode. I didn't realise until later that you can rip the clips without the coverart at the beginning.

[poisondeathray]

If you remove the sequence display extension in restream, it should play 4:3 in all players (if you were planning to just reflag it)

But it has your typical PAL=>NTSC field blending as well . Another option would be to get rid of the blends (but would require re-encoding)

[poisondeathray]

I was curious so I used DGIndex to get a demuxed m2v. Got this error message:

Too many pictures per GOP (>= 500).
DGIndex will terminate.

But the resultant partial m2v (2m:14s) behaved the same as the VOB in the players.

This is bizarre. Normally DGIndex is very reliable and handles MPEG2 streams consistently . I'm wondering if your sample should be forwarded to the author

Anyways, to demux this, you can use eac3to. It will demux everything, including captions, all 3 audio tracks

It's a CLI app, but there are gui's for it (I don't know if they have all the options such as demux all tracks, and the gui's are rather cumbersome to set up)

The syntax is eac3to input.ext -demux

[jagabo]

If you remove the sequence display extension in restream, it should play 4:3 in all players

Yes, that is the problem. The sequence display extension says the 4:3 picture us contained in a 540x480 subsection of the frame. So the full 720x480 frame turns out to be 16:9. 720 / 540 * 1.333 = 1.778

[poisondeathray]

If you remove the sequence display extension in restream, it should play 4:3 in all players

Yes, that is the problem. The sequence display extension says the 4:3 picture us contained in a 540x480 subsection of the frame. So the full 720x480 frame turns out to be 16:9. 720 / 540 * 1.333 = 1.778

Yes, it's a good test to see which software players respect the sequence display extension

(and if anyone else is wondering, the value can be found with gspot)

Any idea why dgindex "barfs" on this stream ?

[El Heggunte]

......

Any idea why dgindex "barfs" on this stream ?

No idea, except that probably DGindex sucks at demuxing

Just for the notes, I have used DGindex always and only for indexing elementary streams ---
--- for demuxing, I prefer PGCdemux or TMPGEnc, depending on the case.

[manono]

......

Any idea why dgindex "barfs" on this stream ?

No idea, except that probably DGindex sucks at demuxing

Just for the notes, I have used DGindex always and only for indexing elementary streams ---
--- for demuxing, I prefer PGCdemux or TMPGEnc, depending on the case.

If I've demuxed M2Vs using DGIndex once I've probably done it a couple of hundred times without incident - until now. And it's choking at the indexing, even after the sequence extension is removed.

You can't demux using PGCDemux as this is only a VOB, and not a DVD. IFOEdit won't create IFOs for the VOB, saying there's something wrong with the VOB. After demuxing the VOB streams with HdBrStreamExtractor (a GUI for eac3to) and reauthoring with Muxman without incident, the new VOB still won't index using DGIndex. After demuxing that Muxman-created DVD using PGCDemux, the new M2V still won't index using DGIndex. I used FFMPEGSource on it in a script. There's something very peculiar about this video stream.

[poisondeathray]

I would have expected muxman to spit out errors if there was something wrong with it

And videoredo's quickstream fix didn't detect any errors either

eac3to did say there were issues with the authoring when demuxing, but didn't specify exactly what . (But "authoring faults" shouldn't apply to elementary stream when demuxed)

[a03] This EVO/VOB file contains authoring faults. Will try to work around that. (2034) <WARNING>

ProjectX said something about missing startcodes and dropping packets when processing the vob



manono - would you please notify neuron2 about this? I wonder what he has to say

[manono]

manono - would you please notify neuron2 about this? I wonder what he has to say

I'd be happy to, and had thought about it already. Except for one thing. The file has already been run through DVDPatcher. Therefore it's not really the source VOB. I don't know enough about what it does to say with confidence it didn't do anything important to the VOB. I'd feel much more comfortable offering neuron2 a VOB straight from the DVD.

But I'll ask him about it anyway.

[Cornucopia]

This is where I also think mediainfo can be improved. Clearly (now) what it is doing is reading both the dar flag and the sequence display extension and combining them for the AR field display. That is not a bad thing, but it would help with troubleshooting if mediainfo actually TOLD us how/where it derives its values (hex locations, calculations, etc).

Scott

[mgh]

My version of DGIndex stops a little over halfway, saying it found GOP length more than 500. Loading in virtualdubmod, I find that it is using a GOP of 13 all through.
My best guess is that the file is corrupt.