Capturing HV20 footage Problems

[crewe1000]

Ok, I've tried to transfer footage from my HV20 to my computer but with terrible results. I plan to edit on my laptop with prem pro 2 which is loaded on it but cannot capture on it.

I tried to capture via my desktop computer using HDV Split and also tried CapDVHS and although both recognised the HV20 the footage captured was not any resemblance of what I had filmed. I had filmed 2 minutes of test footage in HD and it plays back flawlessly on the camcorder but HDV Split dropped over 100 frames/packets (I used a brand new sony premium tape) and the footage from both was totally unwatchable and the sound was terrible as well.

Unfortunately I could not load Prem pro 2 (computer says that the processor does not support the SS2 Instruction Set, whatever that means) onto my desktop for some reason and my attempt at using Vegas gave me equally bad results (It captured the footage in about 8 split files but they were all of poor footage)

Whilst I'm a novice, I have used Adobe 6.5 and captured and edited SD footage for a few years with no problems and was worried that I may struggle with HD footage but am totally confused as to what I have done wrong.

So to be specific I think my questions are:

Am I filming incorrectly on the HV20. I have set the settings to both record in HD and for the output to be on Auto for output (I doubt this but I suppose its possible)?

Am I missing something with regards to the capture process. I have read threads on a number of forums and most people have used HDV Split and HV20 with excellent results and the settings appear quite straightforward?

Could it just be a dodgy tape (I cant find my cleaner so have ordered a new one but wouldnt expect any issues with a new camcorder and tape!)?

Anything else?

If anyone with recent experience with the HV20 or an expert could help me I would appreciate it. I'm hoping that there is a simple explanation.

Thanks.

[Soopafresh]

(computer says that the processor does not support the SS2 Instruction Set, whatever that means)

SSE2 denotes a certain type and speed of CPU in the computer (simplified explanation). I'm guessing your desktop PC isn't fast enough to capture your DV footage.

[crewe1000]

(SSE2 denotes a certain type and speed of CPU in the computer (simplified explanation). I'm guessing your desktop PC isn't fast enough to capture your DV footage.)

Sorry, I was being a bit flippant as I've spent the last few hours trying to sort this out. I agree that the desktop probably cannot cope with PP2. As far as I'm aware though I should still be able to use the other software options I have mentioned.

I'm going to link the HV20 to the TV when its free later on and check the output there and if its ok, perhaps it could mean that my pc needs upgrading I think its a Pentium 3 equivalent with about 2ghz processor speed. Cheers.

[edDV]

Is your computer profile correct? Pentium III ?

No way is Premiere Pro v2 going to work on a P3. Use that money instead to buy a fast Core2Duo machine and start with Premiere Elements, Vegas Movie Studio or ULead Video Studio.


Also, didn't Canon provide some sort of capture software? Normally HDV is captured to proprietary software over the IEEE-1394 port.

[Zen of Encoding]

Also, didn't Canon provide some sort of capture software? Normally HDV is captured to proprietary software over the IEEE-1394 port.

Sadly, of late there has been a trend moving toward using USB2.0 as the upload interface
for camcorders. The model in question here, Canon HV20, is a victim of this trend.
USB 2.0 claims a theoretical maximum file transfer rate of 480 MBps, but in practice
you'll never hit 20% of that speed. Even the older 1394 Firewire-400 is twice as fast
as USB 2.0 during "real-world" usage, the newer Firewire-800 is even faster. I guess
the camcorder manufacturers are just responding to the market, fewer and fewer
computers come equipped with Firewire while *everything* comes with USB2.0 on it.
Too bad it's a technological step backward as far as transfer speed goes.

[edDV]

Also, didn't Canon provide some sort of capture software? Normally HDV is captured to proprietary software over the IEEE-1394 port.

Sadly, of late there has been a trend moving toward using USB2.0 as the upload interface
for camcorders. The model in question here, Canon HV20, is a victim of this trend.
USB 2.0 claims a theoretical maximum file transfer rate of 480 MBps, but in practice
you'll never hit 20% of that speed. Even the older 1394 Firewire-400 is twice as fast
as USB 2.0 during "real-world" usage, the newer Firewire-800 is even faster. I guess
the camcorder manufacturers are just responding to the market, fewer and fewer
computers come equipped with Firewire while *everything* comes with USB2.0 on it.
Too bad it's a technological step backward as far as transfer speed goes.

Well for HDV this shouldn't matter.

HDV is only 25Mb/s (DV is 25Mb/s plus audio if type 2). Either IEEE-1394 or USB2 can top 240Mb/s (30MB/s) sustained with hard drives at the limit. Some USB2 hard drives top out at around half that rate but still are way above HDV transfer rate.

HDV is precomressed in the camcorder.

[racer-x]

Zen of Encoding wrote:

Sadly, of late there has been a trend moving toward using USB2.0 as the upload interface
for camcorders. The model in question here, Canon HV20, is a victim of this trend.
USB 2.0 claims a theoretical maximum file transfer rate of 480 MBps, but in practice
you'll never hit 20% of that speed. Even the older 1394 Firewire-400 is twice as fast
as USB 2.0 during "real-world" usage, the newer Firewire-800 is even faster. I guess
the camcorder manufacturers are just responding to the market, fewer and fewer
computers come equipped with Firewire while *everything* comes with USB2.0 on it.
Too bad it's a technological step backward as far as transfer speed goes.

That information is incorrect for the Canon HV20. The HV20 comes with 1394 firewire connection. Either HDVSplit or CAPDVHS is more than capable of capturing with NO DROPOUTS. I've never had a single dropout yet and I re-use my cheap Sony Premium DV tapes at least 10 records before I discard. My CPU usage during captures are between 2 - 4% for either program. The OP has some serious issues either from PC, or fragmented HDD. He should not have any dropouts whatsoever.

[crewe1000]

Thanks for the responses. I've got a feeling that it is something to do with my PC power but the other thing I have overlooked, is that my desktop monitor is not a HD one! I must admit, I dont recall reading that this was required for capturing and editing purposes but not sure if this makes a difference.

I've since played back the test footage on a non HD TV and the picture is perfect and when I get a HDMI cable I'll do likewise with my smaller LCD HD TV, so a t least that camcorder appears fine.

I think my laptop is HD ready although its not very clear (it says HD to go-Mobile High Definition) and is a couple of years old which is before I knew what HD was! Anyway, I've ordered a 1394 lead from Amazon so I can link the camcorder to the laptop as my brother thinks I may be able to capture direct onto this. Prem Pro is already set up on this and works fine, so CPU power shouldnt be an issue with it.

Anyway fingers crossed and thanks for your thoughts.

[edDV]

A Pentium III is not adequate for Premiere Pro 2.

[edDV]

Monitoring is the first issue to work out. Currently your only way to monitor is to send the file back to the HDV camcoder and feed that to your HDTV.

[zoobie]

while you're upgrading, you can downconvert your footage via the cam to DV and mess with it...assuming your box can at least handle DV...

[crewe1000]

A Pentium III is not adequate for Premiere Pro 2.

I agree, I think I've sussed out now that the problems are probably due to the power of my desktop. Although I hoped to still be able to capture via the other software that I tried.

Once the cable comes I am really hoping that I can capture onto my newer laptop with it and do my normal editing. I also have a bit of hardware called TVIX which is fantastic and I hope to be able to transfer the HD footage onto it as a back up to the tape but be able to view it direct from the TVIX hardware in its full HD glory on my HD tv.

As you can see I'm not very technically experienced but I'll get there in he end.

[racer-x]

crewe1000 wrote:

I also have a bit of hardware called TVIX which is fantastic and I hope to be able to transfer the HD footage onto it as a back up to the tape but be able to view it direct from the TVIX hardware in its full HD glory on my HD tv.

Let us know if you are able to play the m2t files directly through TVIX, or if you need to change extention. I'm interested in such hardware, but need to make sure it can handle full 25 mbs m2t transport stream files..........

[Megahurts]

I normaly record a HD20 thru firewire on a P4 2.8Ghz CPU and have no problems recording with HDV Split or playing back with VLC or MPC.

I tried the HV20 on a P3 1Ghz CPU and had no problems recording. It played back at 1.67 fps with MPC and VLC was about the same. The same file played back at 29.7 fps on the P4 CPU.

[crewe1000]

crewe1000 wrote:

I also have a bit of hardware called TVIX which is fantastic and I hope to be able to transfer the HD footage onto it as a back up to the tape but be able to view it direct from the TVIX hardware in its full HD glory on my HD tv.

Let us know if you are able to play the m2t files directly through TVIX, or if you need to change extention. I'm interested in such hardware, but need to make sure it can handle full 25 mbs m2t transport stream files..........

http://www.tvix.co.kr/Eng/products/HDM4000.aspx

Attached is the TVIX that I have got. Not sure if it will play the m2t files as they are or whether you have to do anything to them first.

[ronnylov]

I do also have a TviX 4000P player but not yet bought the Canon HV20. However I have noticed that other transport streams captured from my digital tv capture card needs to be fixed with projectX (output to ts format) otherwise they won't play in my tvix.

If you want me to try it, please link to a m2t file from a HV20 that I can download.

[dun4cheap]

Windows media player should be able to play it along with power dvd, win dvd. All it is, is an mpeg2 stream with the audio separated.

Pinnacle Studio 10, 11, Liquid 6 and Liquid 7 will all edit this as well as play it.

Capturing via firewire is simply a data exchange from the camera to the hard drive.

[ronnylov]

I have downloaded the hv20 beach clip in m2t format from here:
http://www.canonhv20.com/canon-hv20-footage.php

I tried to play it in my TviX M4000P but it did not work well. The original file played without sound and with a lot of dropped frames (like a fast slideshow). Then I remuxed it to ts format with projectx and it played for a second with both sound and picture but then it dropped the sound and started the slideshow again. So my TviX 4000 can not handle the raw files. However it is possible to convert it to lower bitrate to make it play. I have played 720P files at 15 mbit/s without problems. So the advertisement of the tvix 4000P as capable of playing HDV is false, at least not 1080i in raw HDV format.

I could play the file without problems on my PC with VLC.

[racer-x]

Thank's ronnylov for experimenting. I guess the Sigma chipset is not yet powerfull enough to support the full 25 mbps bitrate @ 1080i.

I'll wait untill they get more powerful, I don't feel like re-encoding all my footage to 720p.

Thank's for testing.

[ronnylov]

It can handle 1080i files but probably at a lower bitrate than HDV. I have seen reports that 22 Mbit/s 1080i worked for somebody but I have not tested it myself. It still means re-encoding to a lower quality.

Yes, wait a couple of weeks and see what the TviX 4100 can do, it is supposed to be a little bit faster with a better chipset and faster CPU. Maybe it will play HDV, maybe not...