Just kill the power vice using shut down.

[Xylob the Destroyer]

We've got a couple fine folks at work who just reach over and hit the red switch on their surge protector at the end of the day.
They save whatever they are working on but they don't close out any applications, log off, reboot, or shut down.
Just kill the power...

Frankly, I don't give a rat's ass if they screw up their software or OS.
My concern is whether or not this will cause any hardware problems. I've been mulling it over for a while and the only possibility I can come up with is possible(?) damage to the hard drive if Windows was writing to it when they killed the power.

Any thoughts?

TIA!

[rallynavvie]

The HDDs are the most likely candidate for damage in that situation, yes.

The PSU is the next thing that would be taking some damage from that sort of treatment. That can be critical as it would lead to catastrophic failures across the entire system. However I think newer PSUs are more susceptible to this as the PFC circuit would probably try to correct the sudden loss of power depending on how it works. I'd guess that this would be rare even with that sort of abuse.

[handyguy]

They survive power outs, so technically it would be okay; but not advisable.

[Nelson37]

Hardware damage from this is extremely rare, so mhcb so that I can't say I've ever even heard of a definite case of hardware failure being caused by sudden power loss, at least not since auto-parking drives. Power surge events and the frequency of power-on failures complicate an accurate assessment.

Windows or other file damage is an eventual certainty, database corruption from delayed writes would be a major danger and could possibly get extremely expensive. It's just quite simply a bad thing to do, sooner or later it is going to bite them in the ass, with the size of the bite being highly variable.

Look them right in the eye and ask "If you're driving along at 50mph and you throw the transmision into Park, is that a good idea? If you do it to MY car, think I'll let you drive it again? If you do it to my Boss's car, which I am responsible to maintain, and about which I have consulted with you and explained the problem and the need to avoid it, along with the proper procedures to prevent it, and you keep doing it, you think me and the Boss are going to have a little chat?

If they run Citrix or Terminal Services I can guarantee you there is an IT guy who would love to boot these people into next week.

[TBoneit]

These same fine folks most likely cancel the checkdisk that will run after a power loss at startup too. Sooner or later it will cause data corruption.

I can not see any way that removing the power at the power strip will cause any damage versus the power being turned off by proper shutdown. In both cases the hard disk drives head will autopark and avoid a head crash. Writing data as the power is removed can only damage data integrity no the hardware itself.

It isn't like the old days with MFM drives such as the 20Megabyte Seagate ST225 which required the user to run a park utility to prevent the heads from settling onto the platters when the computer was turned off.

Ah.... The good old days when a 20megabyte drive never filled up and was darned delicate. I had to do a low level format on a st225 because I forgot to park the heads before I turned the computer off and then turned it over for some forgotten reason. Having to use debug to get the controller card to perform the low level format before partitioning and high level formatting.

from http://www.uncreativelabs.net/textfiles/drives/20MEG.FMT
Example: "3. At the debug prompt, start the low level format program by
typing the following command line:

-g = c800:5 CR (for primary controller)
-g = ca00:5 CR (for secondary controller)
"
Things are so much easier now!

[aedipuss]

the cubicle dweller should never have access to anything other than a keyboard, mouse and front power button. lock everything else up. build lockable enclosures that prevent access to the back of all computers. all power cords and network cables need to be housed similarly.

it's not the user's fault you guys allow it to happen. treat them like a unknown house guest or lose costly items from time to time.

[SCDVD]

If you have any associated responsibility for the systems that are being shut down in this way, you are going to get burned. Work place politics and human nature being what it is, people will go to any measures to avoid blame when there is a problem. They will deny it and then try to blame someone else (you?). If you don't cut this off before it happens, you will be pushed into a defensive position. You would be smart to deal with this now. I like Nelson37's example script. If you shine the bright light of day on this behavior, complete with the appropriate threatening warnings BEFORE there are problems, you are going to be much better off.

Even if you don't have direct responsibly for these systems but are simply concerned about the company's computers, the same advice replies. If people willfully do something they are warned not to do because it will cause problems, it is cause for disciplinary action up to and including dismissal.

It is important to warn these people in writing AND get their signature indicating they received the warning. IF you don't have their acknowledgment signature, they will deny knowing anything about it if there are problems.

[grossjamesh]

Many of todays computers have a soft shut down and soft startup type PS. This means that the power switch on the front of most computers does not really disconnect the PS from the AC. So the PS always is on but voltage to the mother board is controlled. When the AC is disconnect as in a power failure or when the switch is turned off on the surge protector the mother board may see a (hard shut down) power spike. The best way to shut down a computer is through the operating system or front switch. Windows can be configured to initiate the soft shut down on the press of the front switch.
Now some high reliability PS have a hold over feature that will monitor the AC power and dectect the loss of AC and then initiate the soft shut down.

[SCDVD]

Many of todays computers have a soft shut down and soft startup type PS. This means that the power switch on the front of most computers does not really disconnect the PS from the AC. So the PS always is on but voltage to the mother board is controlled. When the AC is disconnect as in a power failure or when the switch is turned off on the surge protector the mother board may see a (hard shut down) power spike. The best way to shut down a computer is through the operating system or front switch. Windows can be configured to initiate the soft shut down on the press of the front switch.
Now some high reliability PS have a hold over feature that will monitor the AC power and dectect the loss of AC and then initiate the soft shut down.

Although many PCs will do an orderly shutdown when the front switch is depressed, this function can be overridden by holding the switch longer (generally around 4 seconds). If this is done, the orderly shutdown will be overridden and the power supply will shut down. The last thing to worry about is the hardware with the "yank-the-plug" type shutdowns. Of serious concern is the OS and application data. It is just a matter of random timing but this practice will cause problems. Incomplete writes, Hard disc structural problems with the FAT and directory, corrupted data bases are some of the consequences of this.

[redwudz]

I had a laptop I was asked to repair with a dead battery and a intermittent power supply connection that would shut down the system at random. Within about a week, the OS and many files were damaged beyond repair. I assume it was writing/reading to the HDD when some of the shutdowns occurred.

Sounds like some re-education on shutdown policies need to be reviewed or created. A fine job for your management employees.

[AlanHK]

Probably these guys are annoyed at the series of clicks and "yes, I REALLY want to shut down" messages they have to go through the normal way.

This can be simplified. Install a safe, one-click method and they will have no excuse. (Google for "fast shutdown" for instance, lots of utilities.)

[Supreme2k]

For AlanHK's method:

1. right-click on the desktop and choose New->shortcut
2. In "Location" type the following: shutdown -s -t 0
3. name it fast shutdown and save.

It is pretty darn quick. You can even copy the shortcut to a pen/thumb drive and simply copy it on all of the "offenders" desktops.

[Xylob the Destroyer]

yeah, definitely a matter to be addressed to management. Especially as I have absolutely no authority whatsoever within the organzation (just lots of "super cool" responsibility!).

I'm responsible only for hardware.
somebody else is responsible for all software issues.
Organizational skills are "unique" around here...

If they trash their OS, files, applications, etc = not my problem.
If they trash the hardware then I have to answer for it...

Thanks for all the input guys!

[Faustus]

PUt them all on UPSs

[Constant Gardener]

I just push the power button - in seconds, computer is in standby. Perhaps the big-red-switch fans are unaware of this feature.

[jagabo]

On the Advanced tab of the Power Options Properties dialog there a section that determines what happens when you press the power button on the front of the case. Set it to Shut Down, Hibernate, whatever. After doing this pressing the power button almost always immediately results in the specified action.

And get power strips that shutdown all the other outlets when the current draw on the main one stops. I have a few of these. They're great. Turn off the computer and all the other devices plugged into that power strip (monitor, speakers, etc) get powered off:

http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/SearchDetail.asp?productID=20781

[painkiller]

While it isn't recommended by most, I actually find there are times that I will power down my PCs rather than the software shut-down method.

By using the shut-down method, the operating system is supposed to save various settings during that process.
DOn't know that it still happens, but it used to be you could leave an app open, shut-down, boot up the next day and have that app open up just where you left off.

When my PCs (that can be running for days on end) start exhibiting some strange behaviour, I find that a power down (instead of a shut down) will result in - skipping the saving process.

Booting up afterwards returns the system to a fresh start and the strange behaviour is gone.

[redwudz]

If you wanted to resume an operation, you can use the 'Hibernate' function. This saves the state of the computer to your hard drive, then you can resume when you reboot. I never found much use for it myself and it slows the restart considerably. Suspend To RAM can also do a similar operation. Hibernate probably has the advantage if you lose power, as STR needs power to the RAM to function.

I do cycle through a restart every couple of weeks with one of my computers that runs 24/7. That seems to be the only way to clean out the trash. But there are servers that run for several years with no reboots, so it can be done. I guess it would depend on the OS and what the PC is doing.

I have a bug in one of my Vista computers where it blanks the display and neither keyboard or mouse will revive it. Suspend, sleep and hibernate are all disabled. Haven't found the cure yet, except a reboot. Window complains about the reboot each time, but nothing is running when I reboot, so no damage.

If you use a 'soft' power down, that is similar to using the software power down. But with many PCs, if you hold down the power button for four seconds or more, it does a 'hard' shutoff, whether the OS is ready or not. If your computer is being updated off the net or still running a process to the HDDs, you can create some problems. Hard power down can usually be disabled in BIOS.

[painkiller]

With respect to longevity and reliability of operation, at work we have our IT and policies that prevent the casual user from installing any software they please.

Any software felt needed for their jobs must go through a rigorous testing and compatibility before being allowed.

I believe this has a lot to do with a computer system running for very long periods of time without issues creeping in.

In case of us at home, we don't usually have the ability to do what is done in IT test labs.

[Xylob the Destroyer]

same here.
many of the power (and other) options folks have referred to in this thread are not accessable to me or most other users here at work.
installing any kind of software = ain't happening

[AlanHK]

same here.
many of the power (and other) options folks have referred to in this thread are not accessable to me or most other users here at work.
installing any kind of software = ain't happening

Creating a shortcut and attaching a shutdown script to it is hardly "installing" anything. It's just automating a manual procedure.

Anyway, if you could make everyone follow rules strictly there wouldn't be this problem to begin with.

[TBoneit]

the cubicle dweller should never have access to anything other than a keyboard, mouse and front power button. lock everything else up. build lockable enclosures that prevent access to the back of all computers. all power cords and network cables need to be housed similarly.

it's not the user's fault you guys allow it to happen. treat them like a unknown house guest or lose costly items from time to time.

Disconnect the front power button too. Holding it for five seconds will turn off the computer too. Set the CMOS bios settings to turn on the computer when power is applied and have a central power switch.

The modern car transmission has safetys the wil prevent self destruction if you throw it into reverse at 50 MPH... It sounds like these user's computers need a similar thing. Just turn off the computer with the power strip instead of waiting until it shuts down to save a minute.

I had a computer one time that if the power went off while it was running I had to run chkdsk to get it working properly. I wouldn't be surprised if these same computers were infested with Trojans and other malware.

I had a IT guy tell me one time he had just finished cleaning off the viruses, explaind in detail never open attachments. OK she said. Two minutes later she was reading e-mail and opened an attachment. Some never learn.

[Xylob the Destroyer]

Creating a shortcut and attaching a shutdown script to it is hardly "installing" anything. It's just automating a manual procedure.

Anyway, if you could make everyone follow rules strictly there wouldn't be this problem to begin with.

Indeed, however, I have a similar shorcut on my HTPC so the earlier post about that remided me of it.
I tried it on my PC at work & no dice.
A command prompt window pops up VERY briefly and then...... Nothing.
The degree to which these workstations are "locked down" is bordering on the ridiculous.
I can't imagine how difficult it's going to be to do our jobs when they push the Vista "upgrade" to us later this year -- "You've clicked on Mircrosoft Office Word. Are you sure you want to open this program?" "Are you sure you're sure?" "Before you can proceed with the operation you will have to give permission. Would you like to give permission?" "Are you sure you want to give permission?" "Are you sure that you're sure about wanting to give permission?" "Now that you've given permission, you must get permission. Would you like to try to get permission?"....

As far as getting people to follow rules, back to my earlier post regarding the complete lack of actual authority that I wield.

[redwudz]

I agree about Vista in a office environment. You forgot the last warning: "You need administrator authority to perform this action. You do not have administrator authority".

The problem with the employees: You send a memo to management outlining the problem and the solution, management sends a memo to the employees containing the policy and the threat of retribution, then your conscience is clear. I worked in management. They live for the opportunity to write policy and send memos.

[RabidDog]

You MUST get the authority needed..Then at knocking off time make them put up their hands and say "Computer off here, Boss", then you allow them to go home. Yup, thats what I'd do. 8)