Capturing audio to PC question

[ktnwin]

I know that we can capture audio with the audio line-in port of the PC.
Usually, when I do this, there is always a background humming noise on the capture WAV file.

My questions are:
1) is there anyway to eliminate this background noise ?
2) If not, what kind of external hardware device for a clean capture ? (USB based for example).
3) since I am capturing the music I play, what software allows me to play back the previous captured track while capturing a new track. I guess I am talking about multi track recording software here.

[mikiem]

"1) is there anyway to eliminate this background noise ?"

The short answer is yes, but to get a really quiet recording can take a bit of work, & at the least a whole lot of reading. Noise could be coming from your PC, from ground loop issues, from light dimmers or flourescent lighting, from the signal of your source input, from your sound card or chip. Post a little more info on your setup.

"2) If not, what kind of external hardware device for a clean capture ? (USB based for example)."

Most of the nicer stuff uses firewire (that I've seen anyway), but Creative makes a couple of USB boxes.

"3) since I am capturing the music I play, what software allows me to play back the previous captured track while capturing a new track. I guess I am talking about multi track recording software here. "

Check out the Sony Media software, but there's really loads of alternatives if you google a bit.

[JerryB]

I know that we can capture audio with the audio line-in port of the PC.
Usually, when I do this, there is always a background humming noise on the capture WAV file.

My questions are:
1) is there anyway to eliminate this background noise ?
2) If not, what kind of external hardware device for a clean capture ? (USB based for example).
3) since I am capturing the music I play, what software allows me to play back the previous captured track while capturing a new track. I guess I am talking about multi track recording software here.

Hi,
I think i can help you with 1 and 2 not sure on 3...
1. a humming sound... sounds like a 60 hz hum ... generally this is cause by
a. computer or or player not well grounded.. check your connections to make sure there good and also your power outlets that there connected well and grounded!!
b. your audio cable maybe too near a power cable and/or speaker cable ...... make sure there a fair amount of distance between your audio cable and any electrical cable...! so that there won't be no induction to the audio...
2. to filter out noise ..... you can try using a simple line filter either for your audio line... try radio shack and see what they have... depending on the stregnth of the humming you may try a simple wav editor program to fiter/cut.. smile... the humming for the saved file... I use audacity to filter out low strngth noises and hiss... and it might work with your hum.. maybe...
3. now this here, multitrack i don't know i can answer..... i am not sure audacity can do what you want.. but take a look at there website there documentation maybe able to help decide... http://audacity.sourceforge.net/help/

[ozymango]

My questions are:
1) is there anyway to eliminate this background noise ?

Sort of, maybe, sometimes, as others here have already mentioned. But if you want to do any really serious audio recording and sound quality is paramount, I say definitely go the USB audio route.

2) If not, what kind of external hardware device for a clean capture ? (USB based for example).

There are quite a few USB/Firewire audio devices out there, with all sorts of ports and mixers integrated and what-not, I'd check out musiciansfriend.com and do a search in recording hardware for a big list of hardware, there's a wide range of stuff.

Figure on about $90 for a low-end (though still very good) "plain vanilla" USB audio interface (I've got an Edirol UA-1X I picked up on sale for $75 and I love, love, love it, the sound quality is superb, no noise), and for a few hundred you can get one with a built-in mixer. If you've already got a mixer, you can just plug it in to any of the USB/Firewire audio devices.

One thing about USB/Firewire audio devices -- they totally bypass the "Windows Mixer" inputs so you can't adjust recording level using the Windows mixer panel. Which is no great loss. So you'll either want to get a device with a built-in mixer (to adjust the input level to the device) or use your own external mixer and adjust the sound levels using it before sending the audio to the USB input.

The difference in sound quality between even my little Edirol and a PCI sound card (assuming non SPDIF inputs/outputs) iis night and day.

3) since I am capturing the music I play, what software allows me to play back the previous captured track while capturing a new track. I guess I am talking about multi track recording software here.

Cakewalk makes a bunch of products that I hear are very good for this; prices range from $100 ("home" versions) to $$$ for professional stuff. I don't have much direct experience with multi-track recording (other than mixing down music and voice tracks for videos, very simple stuff) and I use Adobe Audition, which is an update of Cool Edit Pro and that can also be used for multi-track -- or so I'm told, but I've never tried it for that. Also it's kind of pricey ($300 retail, I think), so you'd want to check out a demo to see how you like it.

I'd just do a web search for "multitrack audio software" and see what kind of hits you get, there are a lot of demos out there for stuff that may suit your needs just fine.

Hope that helps!

[ktnwin]

Thanks a bunch for the suggestions.
I do not want to spend tons of money on this so I will go for:
1) USB audio capture device
2) a multi-track audio software (with MIDI tracks capability)
Should cost less then 200$ total.
I do have an external mixer already.

The internal PCI sound card is not good at all for recording, I tried to plug in my (electric guitar) and record a short play. On play back , the background hum is disgusting. The same with voice recording using microphone input.

[kschang]

Those who have Nero may want to check out their Nero package. I think there's a Nero Trax or something like that in there that's a multi-track recorder.

On the other hand, nothing really beats ACID, originally Sonic Foundry, now sold by Sony.

[mattso]

The "Mic In" might be creating this noise you're hearing - use "Line In" instead, via a mixer or preamp.

For multitracking software, you should check out Audacity (free) before forking out big bucks. Audition multitracks too, but I still prefer Audacity. Give it a go, go on!

[ktnwin]

I like the suggestion about using Audacity for multi-track recording. I am new to it and according to the documentation, it supports playing existing track(s) while recording a new track. That's exactly what I need.

And I just install Nero (that new Nero Sound Trax, have not tried it yet)

About the 'line-in' and 'mic in', I believe I use them correctly.

My electric guitar is plugged into the "line in" with a special adapter of course and if I record voice, I connect the microphone to the "mic in".

The humming exists with both. I definitely has to buy an external "audio capture" device (USB based), heard that these are pretty good as they convert audio to digital and send it to the PC.

[JerryB]

I like the suggestion about using Audacity for multi-track recording. I am new to it and according to the documentation, it supports playing existing track(s) while recording a new track. That's exactly what I need.

And I just install Nero (that new Nero Sound Trax, have not tried it yet)

About the 'line-in' and 'mic in', I believe I use them correctly.

My electric guitar is plugged into the "line in" with a special adapter of course and if I record voice, I connect the microphone to the "mic in".

The humming exists with both. I definitely has to buy an external "audio capture" device (USB based), heard that these are pretty good as they convert audio to digital and send it to the PC.

hi again,
now i don't know about the outputs of a electric guitar and i have never heard of any one outputing from a guitar into the sound card line in jack..!! but one of the things that comes to mind... is
1. are you using a sterio adaper..... your line in jack is setup for sterio... and if your just using a mono jack, even thugh right size that maybe aproblem... it may not be making good contacts and hense the humming...
I have had that happen before to me when using the wrong jacks
2. another issue..... by any chance could be overdriving circuitry!! how much current is that guitar putting out compared to what the max on what the line in jack can accepts... generally your sound card line in jack is setup to meets requirements that sterios, various players (line out) and such provide...!
i could be out to lunch, smile.... that what i am thinking..

[ozymango]

The humming exists with both. I definitely has to buy an external "audio capture" device (USB based), heard that these are pretty good as they convert audio to digital and send it to the PC.

I had the same problem with my internal sound card (the 60hz hum), and I could almost get rid of it, but there was just enough left to drive me nuts. Also I taped a show once and had access to a laptop computer for sound recording, and being able to just bring along my Edirol USB made things a whole lot easier (ran patch cables from the sound board).

Again, the noise rejection on my Edirol (and I'm assuming any decent USB audio device) is amazing, there is to my ears no noise from the device itself, plus the dynamic range and clarity will blow your ears off. In a good way. :P

Good luck and have fun!

[JerryB]

I like the suggestion about using Audacity for multi-track recording. I am new to it and according to the documentation, it supports playing existing track(s) while recording a new track. That's exactly what I need.

And I just install Nero (that new Nero Sound Trax, have not tried it yet)

About the 'line-in' and 'mic in', I believe I use them correctly.

My electric guitar is plugged into the "line in" with a special adapter of course and if I record voice, I connect the microphone to the "mic in".

The humming exists with both. I definitely has to buy an external "audio capture" device (USB based), heard that these are pretty good as they convert audio to digital and send it to the PC.

hi,
i just came across a post conerning ground based humming.... that they were getting from a turntable to there computer./... what they did was to get a ground loop isolator from radio shack and it cured the humming problem for them..

[Cornucopia]

What kind of guitar (or more specifically, guitar pickup) are you using?

There are (basically) 2 kinds of guitar pickups--Single Coil and Dual Coil.
Single coils are common on Fender Strat/Tele types of guitars and have a bright, crisp sound.
Dual Coils (also known as "Humbucking" pickups) are common on Gibson LesPaul-styles of guitars and have a louder, fatter, but slightly more muffled sound. The reason they are called humbucking is because the pickups are reversed to cancel out hum and other RFI/EMI noise.

That may be part of what you're getting.

A real clean recording path for guitar might go something like this:

Good Humbucking Guitar --> Real Good (and short) Guitar Cable --> Direct Box (or Instrument-level preamp), with Ground lift switch --> Balanced XLR Cable --> ProMixer (if needed) --> Balanced XLR Cable (if mixer is needed) --> External A/D Box --> USB/Firewire (or proprietary) digital connection --> PC.

Mikes would be similar, just switching out the 1st 3 items:

High quality Low-Z mike --> Short high-quality XLR cable --> Highest quality affordable Mike pre-amp -->....

........

If you want it to sound good, avoid using the on-board sound card (or worse yet, MOBO sound). There is all kinds of spurious digital noise emissions going on in and around your PC. The digital circuits are pretty oblivious to them, but an analog circuit (like the "A" part of the A-to-D in the soundcard) can't avoid it.

Scott

[ktnwin]

Oh, I can't believe I started an interesing subject.

In summary, my guitar is an electric guitar with single coil pickup. It works well with guitar amplifier (no humming noise) and with my audio mixer (where I can adjust the input level).

The line-in of the PC sound card should be fine for this kind of guitar (many books and software manuals say you can do it that way).

I guess from what I heard from the above post, an USB audio capture device will solve my problems and also help me to capture other analog audio in the PC for some minor editing, burning CD, etc... the good thing all at a very low cost (sub-100$)

I do believe in these USB audio capture devices (as they convert analog to digital WAV and sent to the PC via USB).

The same goes with video capture devices, analog ones tend to give users a lot of headaches while the Firewire capture box (analog video to DV, especially DV cam pass thru mode) is quite simple to use.

Audio sampling & digital conversion should be peanut compared to video capture & conversion.

[Cornucopia]

In summary, my guitar is an electric guitar with single coil pickup. It works well with guitar amplifier (no humming noise) and with my audio mixer (where I can adjust the input level).

The line-in of the PC sound card should be fine for this kind of guitar (many books and software manuals say you can do it that way).

>>>>>

The same goes with video capture devices, analog ones tend to give users a lot of headaches while the Firewire capture box (analog video to DV, especially DV cam pass thru mode) is quite simple to use.

>>>>>

Audio sampling & digital conversion should be peanut compared to video capture & conversion.

Yes, your sound from the single coil pickup guitar will probably be very usable. Don't be fooled, though, there IS hum coming from that guitar. With certain mixes, to certain ears, it might be noticeable. There are ways to get around this, but they get more and more esoteric. Depends on how "PRO" you want to go (e.g. In-line humbuckers, Balanced guitar cabling, Mu-metal, etc).


There is a vast range of quality with analog to digital devices, both audio and video. Note: ALL of them have an Analog & a Digital & a A/D conversion component. The difference is mainly WHERE the Analog & conversion section is located. If the analog section is located EXTERNAL to the PC, you usually have MUCH better noise isolation. Audio examples include the aforementioned USB boxes, Video examples are the DV cameras themselves (not the capture card, which is really just a bus port).


Audio sampling & conversion is still difficult, with an entirely differnt set of things to worry about, but the overhead (size, speed, cost) is much less than video.

Scott

[ozymango]

Oh, I can't believe I started an interesing subject.

Must be due to your sound judgement.

Audio sampling & digital conversion should be peanut compared to video capture & conversion.

Y'know, I used to think this until I did my first concert videotaping and hooked into the soundboard and ... AIYEE!!!

:P

But it's fun, and often I think sound is considered a bit of an afterthought when it comes to amateur video -- in a way, the eyes can be more "forgiving" than the ears, when it comes to certain things. And a good soundtrack can make all the difference!

Possibly useful technical trivia note: Digital recording is much less tolerant of "clipping" (overloading the signal) than is analog, meaning that if you peg the VU meters on your digital software, it's gonna sound terrible. Like really, really terrible, and you can't fix it in editing.

Easy solution, though: Just max the VU meters out at -6db during recording, and normalize it later if you want to bring up the quiet parts. The dynamic range of your sound is gonna be so high (over 90db) and so clean, you can fix low sound issues in editing much, much easier than if it's too loud.

Let us know how it goes!

[pbwgap]

Just to add my two cents to the topic.

I had the same problem, I never liked the audio captured thru my sound card Line-In. So, one day I got a crazy idea "why not capture through firewire port using my DV Cam as pass thru". I immediately asked our friends, one of whome suggested a way to do it. Use SceneAnalyser to capture the Audio alone via DV Cam. I am now totally satisfied with the A/D conversion done by DV Cam and the resulting quality. No additional HW than what I already have. I then process it in CoolEdit and convert it to 44100Hz for CD burning.

Never been happier.

[ktnwin]

More than 12 months have gone by - time flies so fast.
A few months ago, I finally bought a Lexicon digital audio recording box from Guitar Center, this comes with Cubase LE software (the whole set cost about 150$ today). Then I start recording in no time, using a Yamaha keyboard as well as acoustic / electric guitars to produce some music. Nothing is easier than this (of course if I play wrong, I had to re-play only the part that was wrong).
Also get a pair of monitor speakers (for 300$/pair) connect directly to this box. And it sounds great.
There is no humming at all.
Essentially, for recording this box convert audio IN to digital via USB to computer, on playback, the computer send digital audio to the box which convert to analog for playing on the two powered monitor speakers.
However if the input is too loud during recording, then the sounds get distorted when play back. I learned to adjust the input levels to avoid this.
All this is still not at professional level but I am happy with it.