Trick for DL DVDR's and Multiple Audio Streams?

[Disco Makberto]

Hi, cyber-readers!

I have a question, and to be of service to the community, I also have a non-related advice on the "Edit" section (check it out).

Okay, do you find it wise to record a second audio stream on the second layer of a DL DVDR and record the video with the main audio stream on the first layer of such DL DVDR? I don't know if this is possible, but the reason why I am asking you this is because I keep hearing (reading, actually) on different grups that some DVD players stop for a few moments while switching to the second layer. In other words, can the second audio stream (with the full movie if necessary) be called from the first layer by way of a button? This way, the so called "few moments to switch" won't be an issue because the first layer is sort of independent to the second layer.

Trying not to confuse this issuer furtherly, please let me tell you that I am talking about a video(s) that can be placed on a normal DVDR, which means, a two-hours or less kind of video. The reason why I need a second layer is due to my thinking about placing a second audio stream, for instance, adding a Spanish audio stream to the original English stream of a two-hours movie, or adding a multichannel second audio stream to the original stereo stream of a two-hours movie, etc.

Best to all,

Carlos Albert "Disco Mak"
discomakberto at megamixers dot co dot uk

[guns1inger]

I don't believe it can be done, however FWIW, all players pause, albeit briefly in some cases, at the layer break. Even on commercial DVDs (read the back of the case - Layer Break may produce a slight pause - or similar will be written somewhere). How long the pause is comes down to how quickly the player can refocus the laser. Why they don't just put a simple cache like anti-shake CD players is beyond me.

Your audio streams are muxed with your video across the same VOBs (which is why you can pick up a VOB in isolation from the titleset and play it back with audio. You cannot put audio for title a into title b and play them back together.

There are also certain rules relating to writing (burning) DL DVDs. The first layer burned must be the same size or slightly larger than the second layer burned, in order to correctly alter the surface properties of the disc for the second layer to be written.

In short, no, I don't believe you can do what you are trying to do within the DVD specification.

[AlanHK]

As gunslinger says, not possible to do that. The audio and video tracks are intermingled in the VOBs, not separate files.

However, you probably don't need to do double layer at all. An audio track in decent quality is 1-2 MB /minute, so adding an extra language track is perhaps another 250MB.

[Disco Makberto]

Hello, Gus1Inger and AlanHK!

Thanks for your replies.

Please let me get this straight. Basically, what I am trying to do is not possible. But what about if I place a complete movie with their own VOB's etc. on the first layer and copy this same movie with their own VOB's and a different audio on the second layer? In other words, the complete original movie on first layer and this same movie and everything on the second layer but with a different audio. This is different to what I said first which was the complete movie with original audio on the first layer and just the second audio on the second layer and no movie on this second layer.

Well, yes, I know that shrinking and some lossless recording is possible, but in the case of the first layer with an original two hours or less DVD with no multiple audio streams, it would just be a 1 to 1 recording with no shrinking.

Laters,

CAL "DM"
Disco Mak

[guns1inger]

Theoretically, you can do this, however you would have to plan out your authoring to ensure that when you authored the two titlesets you were able to put your layer break exactly where you need it to be.

That said, every commercial dual layer disc has a layer break that causes a pause. I don't understand why you are having a problem with this happening on burned discs as well. You will get better quality having a single copy of the movie with multiple audio tracks than two full copies of a movie with different audio tracks, unless the running times are 90 minutes or less.

[AlanHK]

But what about if I place a complete movie with their own VOB's etc. on the first layer and copy this same movie with their own VOB's and a different audio on the second layer?

But why? If you must use a DL, you can encode your video at a higher rate and get higher quality instead of just having two copies of the video at a lower rate.

Having both audio streams attached to the same video also means they can be switched by the audio button on the remote at any time without starting again.

[Disco Makberto]

Hello, there!

I understand why you are confused about my approach, so let me explian this to you.

To begin with, I am not talking about commercial DL discs as in commericial movies from Blockbuster, etc. I am talking almost exclusively about music video clips on DVD's or DVDR's. The vast majority of these video clips are on a single layer disc, not on DL discs, containing 15 or less video clips. What do I need a second audio stream? For instance, among other things, to add a karaoke audio in addition to the normal audio. Again, it is easier for me to make a 1 to 1 copy of the original DVD on the first layer, and then add the same movie with the karaoke audio on the second layer.

An important question, please. Can I manipulate the audio link on the menu of the first layer so that I can use either the original audio from the first layer or the second audio on the second layer? Or do I have to add an independent menu on the second layer?

See ya',

CAL "Disco Mak"

P.S.: In my collection, I just have a handful or less commercial DVD movies (of the "Blockbuster" type). But I have hundreds if not more than 1,000 DVD's and DVDR's with music video clips! Strange, isn't it? I am a big fan of DVD's but not for "normal" movies ):

[guns1inger]

If you did create a disc with two versions of the movie, they would be in separate titlesets, but part of the same disc. One set of menus would be able to access both titles. If you had scene or track selection menus then your structure would be

VMG menu
VTS 1 Menu : Title Selections
VTS 2 Menu : Title Selections

Depending on your authoring software, this structure may or may not be visible to you. Some software does this behind the scenes, other software shows you the entire structure.

The point about commercial discs is simply that even pressed discs have layer breaks and therefore a pause. It is not something you can easily avoid.

[Disco Makberto]

Hello, Gus1Inger!

Thanks for your very informative reply.

So, great news, it can be done on DL media if the original source is, let's say, less than 4.5GB!

I agree with you that the break is sort of unavoidable. However, if, as you say, the VTS 2 Menu will be all in the second layer contining the whole movie with the second audio, the break waiting is a moot point since the waiting will be just to access the VTS 2 Menu and will not interfere with any actual playing. Remember that we are talking about full X1 movie with X1 audio on the first layer and full X1 movie with X2 audio on the second layer.

I am still months away to study the technicalities of this approach deeply enough. I need to save money to buy DL media on spindles, to satrt with. But when this happens, I wil certainly be posting here.

Best,

CAL "DM"

[guns1inger]

Spend most of your time researching how to get the later break where you want it, because that will be your biggest challenge.

[Disco Makberto]

I will, Guns1Inger, and thank you kindly!

CAL "Disco Mak"

[AlanHK]

What do I need a second audio stream? For instance, among other things, to add a karaoke audio in addition to the normal audio. Again, it is easier for me to make a 1 to 1 copy of the original DVD on the first layer, and then add the same movie with the karaoke audio on the second layer.

Really, this is not easier. In fact, having one video track and two (or several) audio tracks is much simpler to author, and simpler to use, in that the person playing it can change audio tracks without interrupting the video.

An important question, please. Can I manipulate the audio link on the menu of the first layer so that I can use either the original audio from the first layer or the second audio on the second layer? Or do I have to add an independent menu on the second layer?

You seem to have the idea that the seond layer is like the flip side of an LP; but for all purposes it acts like one single large disc, with a gap in the middle. I'm pretty sure there is no authoring mechanism for jumping between tracks on separate layers as you want.

[Cornucopia]

Yes, I can tell you that there IS NOT! The authoring mechanism that allows "jumping between layers" is the authoring mechanism that allows "jumping between program chains", and as this is built with PAUSES in mind, this would be no different than having the different program chains on the same layer--still a pause between each.

And VERY FEW authoring/burning apps will allow you to put the layer break precisely where you want it to go (that is, between the end of Set1 and the beginning of Set2): Scenarist, Maestro, DVDA, DVDLabPro, DVDStudioPro. That might be it.

You could also have the menu at the beginning "PRESELECT" the streams that you want, and as you are making a new and appended compilation (so it can't be a "1-to-1" copy anyway), it makes less sense and is more work to duplicate than to just add additional audio streams (karaoke) to the current clips.

Good authoring jobs from H'wood studios will put the "paused" layer break at a point in the show where there is a fade-to-black and chapter point. For your purposes, it would make sense to do it between songs--IF you have the software to specify.

Scott

[Bjs]

So you want to do something similar as seen in "aliens vs predator" pal release .

It contain's two complete title's of the movie ... one normal , the other is the extended version .

Simple stuff ... it's just the layer break problem to be aware of .

Even far simpler is to add multiple audio track's to a single title ... yes , there is a slight pause when switching between them as well .

=============

Cornucopia

Good authoring jobs from H'wood studios will put the "paused" layer break at a point in the show where there is a fade-to-black and chapter point.

Finally , someone who understands the process I use all the time ...

=============

Problem's come about when some users report it as being a better choice to have the layer break set close to 50/50 .

It dosent alway's work out that way ... in fact , I have never seen a 50/50 layer break ever ... but close ... the last dl sucker I let rip with was 45/55 ... it was more important that the file's related to the second layer stay together in that project ... less annoying .

[jman98]

Bjs - Seriously, do you enjoy being ignorant?
contain's
Problem's
alway's
file's
track's

Dude, maybe you should have paid attention in school but ZERO plurals in English are made with 's. ZERO. ZERO. What part of ZERO do you not freakin' get? Your posts drive me absolutely nuts. It's really hard to take you seriously when you are so completely and foolishly ignorant of your own native language.
Do a web search on how to make plurals in English (hint - "plurals" is correct) and stop posting in ignorance. By the way, if you ever have to find another job and your resume is filled with this kind of crap, I can assure you that people will definitely hold it against you.

[mats.hogberg]

@jman98: Tho correct, completely uncalled for. If you can't take the way Bjs writes plural's (sorry - couldn't resist!), don't read his posts. Fair warning.

/Mats