Authoring a Master Copy - tips and suggestions needed

[tarrickb]

Hello,
I will be burning a copy of my DVD soon and it will be sent to get pressed (or duplicated, not 100% sure yet). I'm just wondering if there are any things I should keep watch for while burning this master as I don't want any of the 2000 copies affected by an error on my part.

The only thing i can think of now is to make sure to burn the master at a slow speed - 4x should suffice i think. Also, is it ok if the DVD has almost 100% of it's capacity used, or is it a good idea to leave some room available?

P.S. I'm using Sony DVD Architect as my authoring program.

[overloaded_ide]

You should asked detailed questions to the company that will be pressing your 2,000 disks!

I don't want any of the 2000 copies affected by an error on my part.

It's not any it's ALL! An error on your master will be on every disk! So if one does not work, then 2,000 will not work! If one skips then 2,000 will skip. A manufacturing error might effect only one or 20 or so disks, but a mastering error effects all of them.

Pressed or duplicated? At 1,000 disks or more I would go for pressing. Maybe even for fewer disks.
Things may have changed since I last looked into it, but pricing and other factors 1,000 was the breaking point between Duplicated and pressed.

I don't know if burning slow is good or not. Personally I don't think so. Use the best Disk you can get and burn at the rated speed on a good drive. Why burn a 16X or 8X disk at 4X speed on a 12X burner? I would not expect any better, but maybe worse burn instead.

A full disk should be fine if a good high quality disk, however the outer edge of the disk is more prone to errors on any disk so it does not hurt to leave some empty space.

There are various programs to check the disks and burns for errors, I would burn at least five disks and choose the best one if I was worried about it.

I think most important though is to actually watch the disks and make sure they play well, not just rely on looking for errors with software. You can have a near perfect disk, but if the audio got out of sink it won't show up as an error on the disk! There are many other ways you could have a perfect disk and a bad DVD as well. No substitute for actaully watching a burned disk at least once after authoring.

I just made 2 backups of a DVD with errors but the disk itself is fine!
One somehow a chapter got out of order, it's not where it should be in the movie but shows up about 5 minutes later where it should not be.
The other one I have a couple bad spots I thought was disk problems, but then I found the hard drive copy on the computer has the same bad spots.

Stuff like that you have to watch it to find. Although I was speaking of 2 DVD backups here, the same thing goes for mastering a DVD. I have had a few strange things happen in some I authored that I did not notice on the PC but durring playback of a burned disk I found the errors.

[Bjs]

You simply want to stick with the basic standards for compatibility .

Yes , beware of any authoring error's , it will stuff the lot .

Those who burn at the rated speed of the media do not give a rat's butt if the file's are there for a few days , month's ... and gone when they needed them most ... so dont follow their advice .

The golden rule's :

Dvd-r (not all players support +)
Do not fit more than 4.3 gig to media (again , older player's have issue's reading toward's the end of the disc)
Burn at 4x (the standard ... though burning at halve the rated speed would return in the same result)
Make sure it's quality media used (who ever is doing the job for you ... make sure they dont chip you on quality)

Your remaining issue will appear in the form "your disc dont work" ... and I'll bet it's because the player is more than 18 months old and has already done alot of work .

Me personally , when they get to 18 month's they get retired ... hell ... their cheap these day's .

It's also why you cannot rely on a single pc player to playback the dvd compilation ... you want atleast three .

Avs dvd player = good
Koolplaya = good
Windows media player = well ... it dose work ... a bit slack at time's .
Neroshowtime = reasonable , will choke on problem's .
Powerdvd = it's out of here , unwanted poison ... ok the latest version is better , but dont trust it alone .
Windvd = seem's fine

If you want the best , grab a p3 800mhz or faster in ebay , put win98se on it , and use ifoedit ... it will trap error's ... it dosent work under xp well at all ... normally it will lockup in playback view ... wish it get fixed soon .

---------------

Mine never have player issue's ... I do what's required from start to finish ... if something dosent feel or look right , it get's dealt with before any burning proceed's .

Run test on media using nero cdspeed tools , and compare the prewrite to the final write .

My last run :

8x verbatim dvd-r ... spike's between 6 and 2 ... final write at 4x ... as straight as a pretzel along 2 without any blip's ... perfect result .

[GeorgeW]

P.S. I'm using Sony DVD Architect as my authoring program.

At this point, Sony has yet to release an update that affects all DVD Architect authored DVD's. You might want to load your DVD Folder into PGCedit, and pay attention to the error message about audio streams in VMGM_MAT. Note: When you go to burn it, make sure you don't burn the PGCedit "backup" folder that automatically gets created when starting a new project.

This "error" appears to prevent playback on some DVD Recorder/Player units -- most notably are the LG Recorder/Players.

Regards,
George

[JohnnyMalaria]

Burn slow, not fast.

Burn to the highest quality discs you can buy. You only get one shot at this, so don't skimp. Even archival gold DVD-Rs are less than $5 each.

Verify the burn afterwards.

[piano632]

Try Maxell "Broadcast Quality" DVD-R or Mitsui/MAM-A gold DVD-R (about $2 each disc):

http://www.tapeonline.com/DVD-R/Maxell_DVD-R_47_8X_Broadcast_Quality.aspx
http://www.mediasupply.com/mam4348110.html

[overloaded_ide]

Those who burn at the rated speed of the media do not give a rat's butt if the file's are there for a few days , month's ... and gone when they needed them most ... so dont follow their advice .

Well I will say to begin with I am mostly thinking pressing, not large scale copies. There is a difference, I can do copies myself but I can't press disks.!

Does it really help to burn a 16X or 8X disk at only 4X in a 16X burner?
Doesn't the write stratagy come into play somewhere?

So I have a 16X burner and 8X disks, are we sure that burning at 4X or 2X is better with that burner and those disks?
I ask becuase I don't think so myself but if that can be backed up I'd go back to the Toshiba 2X drive. Heck I paid $200 for that 2X drive, so if 2X is gonna last 100 years and 8X lasts a week I'll use the Toshiba drive!
That said, I have just started burning more than 4X myself. I been happy with the Toshiba drive and NEC drive burning 2X and 4X. I bought a ton of disks a few years back and just now running low, Ritek printables, when they were good disks and never made me a coaster yet. I have not tried newer Riteks though.
Now I am burner alot of TY Yuden 8X hub printable, but only for a week or so.

Now I will say I noticed on my NEC 4X burner I MIGHT have a weak spot where the speed change occures, might be a jump in the video, not certain yet, but that is a 4X burner writing an 8X disk at 8X!
Firmware upgrade
But this was also Ripped DVDs and maybe also shrunk, so there are several other reasons that could have occured.
At 4X on that burner, the rated speed, maybe I would not have that problem? This is one reason I say WATCH the video!

So far I have not found any errors in the same 8X disks burned at 12X on a 16X burner, a 111D. I mean visual errors in watching the movies, I rarely use the software programs to look for errors.

As far as long life, I beleave if the disk is being sent in for pressing you don't really need to worry about long life anyway. My understanding is the master you send on DVD-R is used to make a pressing master. That pressing master is then used for pressing all disks, not your disk!
So although you really don't want disks to die, the fact is if pressing the master disk only has to last long enough to make the pressing master anyway, then your disk is never used again anyway!
If you ever place another order to the same run the pressing master is used, not your disk.
Still we do not want them dying anyway right.
The only time a new pressing master would need made is if you change the content, so that first DVD-R disk is useless anyway.

If replicating, well that may be different perhaps, another reason to press instead of copy!

As far as all the other things said about DVD R of any format, it does not apply to pressed disks.
Once the disk is pressed it is no longer a recordable! So compatibility with players etc... does not matter. Either a player will play a comercail pressed disk or it does not. The master you send to be pressed has no bearing on anything concerning the pressed disk other than if the disks can be pressed correctly, not how they play in peoples players.

Like I said, contact the company you plan to deal with and ask lots of questions. That's the only way to know anything for sure about the work you are about to pay for to have done.

If you are replicating (lots of copies) or pressing (real DVDs) you may get different answers to the same questions.

I know I have!
Myself I preffer pressing if a large enough volume is needed.

[tarrickb]

Thanks for the replies, as far as quality media goes,
I purchased Sony AccuCore DVD-R (1-16x). Should this suffice?

[videopoo]

Dont forget the most important factors. What is the length of your video and what was your bitrate and did you use AC3 audio.

Media is rarely a problem with compatabilty. 9 times out of 10 when a disc skips its author error in setting thier overall bitrates too high and not using AC3 audio.

Also try and deliver on DLT if you can. Much better error correction. Just remember, any errors in the writing process (and every disc has them) will "tranfer" over to your replicated discs.

[tarrickb]

Hi thanks for your reply.

The DVD consists of 8 video sessions, each about 10 minutes in length. The bitrates of the sessions range from 6 Mbps to 6.5 Mbps - 2-pass VBR. I am using AC3 audio so that should not be a problem.

Hopefully my final questions
1. is it ok that my bitrates vary in two of the video sessions, or is it best to keep every session consistant?
2. I'm putting chapter markers in each of the sessions, and want to put a chapter marker at the very end of the session, so if the last section of a session is being viewed, the user can skip forward and they will be navigated to the next session. I tried doing this (putting a chapter marker at the very end), but it had no effect and none of my players would skip forward. I suspect that the marker was too close to the end of the video. Are there any suggestions to how close to the end a chapter marker can be?

Thanks.

[tarrickb]

Also, are Sony AccuCore DVD-R (1-16x) DVDs considered to be good media?

[Bjs]

Why would anyone burn 8x media higher than it's maximum rated speed ?

overloaded_ide

"So far I have not found any errors in the same 8X disks burned at 12X on a 16X burner, a 111D" , and
"I rarely use the software programs to look for errors."

Your an ... well I'll refrain from name calling ... and while it might suite your need's , when it come's down too a "true" pre-master for mass production , you must absolutely , stick to standard's .

I have already indicated the standards to be cautious of for compatibility which should be included whether it be for personal , or mass production in either format , and I doubt that , while YOU personally have no issue's , that as you admit

"I mean visual errors in watching the movies" , and once more
"I rarely use the software programs to look for errors."

Which dose mean you take no care whats so ever , and I personally think most other player's might actually , and normally do have an issue with them created in such manner ... You just might get away with such stunt's with pressed disc's , but it cannot be guaranteed because initial standard's were not followed , nor confirmed before hand .

-------------

Note : Some player's have issue with mp2 audio , so dont use it .

Stick to the standards and disregard those who dont know what their talking about without at least confirming what they purport via researching from other source's first ... then make a final decision .

New media ... for pete sake , use the tool's to check the media first , and then rescan after ... just because "it work's" in your player , dosent mean it will for all your clients ... one error is all it take's , no matter which form of mass production is used .

I personally have more than 9 different player's , and many more accessible unit's from client's , to guarantee the final product to within atleast 98% playability .

Taking into account other such factor's , the difference's between :

1: Dvd burner brand and supplied firmware
2: Media type and manufacturer's
3: Not to forget the tool's used for the post processing and authoring of content

Not all drive's , media , and post-processing tool's are equal .

So you see , it take's a lot more than "edit , burn , it's done" before even considering mass production .

[tarrickb]

Thanks for the response Bjs...luckily i'm aware enough to recognize when certain users recommend preposterous ideas!

However, I want to bring attention (to all viewers) my two posts above yours as I feel they contain important questions which i'm eager to have answered.
Thanks.

[Bjs]

Hi thanks for your reply.

The DVD consists of 8 video sessions, each about 10 minutes in length. The bitrates of the sessions range from 6 Mbps to 6.5 Mbps - 2-pass VBR. I am using AC3 audio so that should not be a problem.

Hopefully my final questions
1. is it ok that my bitrates vary in two of the video sessions, or is it best to keep every session consistant?
2. I'm putting chapter markers in each of the sessions, and want to put a chapter marker at the very end of the session, so if the last section of a session is being viewed, the user can skip forward and they will be navigated to the next session. I tried doing this (putting a chapter marker at the very end), but it had no effect and none of my players would skip forward. I suspect that the marker was too close to the end of the video. Are there any suggestions to how close to the end a chapter marker can be?

Thanks.

------------

Let's see this in action ...

Audio should be the same bitrate for all , or player's have trouble .

Vbr in video ... well I personally avoid this ... best they be individual title's that are linked in order of play ... in pgcedit , as vtst ttn1 , vtst ttn2 , vtst ttn3 ... not as chapters under the same vtst .

A bit like making a dvd which includes nstc / pal , 16:9 / 4:3 ... those sort of issue's .

Otherwise I would re-encode the two video clip's to the same bitrate as the other's to make them compatible , then combine them in order of play , and each would be a chapter point under one domain vtst , which would allow for the user to use the remote to flick back and forth between them without issue .

Not sure about the sony product , I have it , but considering the amount of user's asking for help , and the number of idiot xp systems that keep stuffing up , I just dont any time lately to use it ... but it might have a way of re-encoding those clip's so they match in the final product , just take a look in the document's that came with it ... mine came with two huge book's .

[tarrickb]

So is that a "Yes" for it being able to have different video sessions with different VBR bitrates??? I have ensured that each session has the same AC3 encoding settings.