Tips on recording live Audio properly (help is very much needed.)

[rainrainrain]

Hi,

I own a small Videography Business in South Florida.
To Weddings, and parties in Dance Halls, i usually work with an assistant. We use (as cameras,) a Sony PD170 and a much more powerful Sony DSR-390.

For room sound, we generally use the microphones that came with the camera equipment. For interviews, speeches and etc, we use Sony UWP-C1&C2 transmitters (respectively.)

However, during scenes where the guests are dancing, our sound is most troubled. The reason for this is that clips are broken to create moments from larger clips.

In turn, I was wondering, what kind of inexpensive audio recording equipment is available to record stage sound (live band playing)? What are our options? Original sound is very important to our clients. As long as the sound is clean and unbroken, broken video clips that headline the one sound track are fine.

Thank You,
Stanley Sandler

[Kurt S]

Unless you run a line out of the mixer into your recording device, you aren't going to get a very good mix. Using a standard microphone and aiming it at the band is going to sound even worse.

If you have to stay cheap, go to a pro music store and look at PZM type mics. the can actually do a pretty good job at capturing live performances without getting that "hollow" hall sound.

[rainrainrain]

What about in terms of having separate equipment record the sound as a file (microphone near the amps to a computer and etc.), that we will be able to import into our project later.

[Cornucopia]

You've got 2 questions here:

1. How 2 edit the video, yet maintain sound continuity?

You can't. You can do a number of things here, but all are compromises.
You can edit the video and have the sound still be synced to the video and be edited also, but there are jumps in the music (which could be nicely crossfaded),
--or--
You can edit the video and stick "filler" in where the edits took out footage, leaving the audio in sync and continuous, but it makes the program much longer and you have to have something good to put in as filler,
--or--
You can edit the video, but not the audio, but then the video is no longer synced to the audio. This may work nicely, as long as there is no on camera speaking/effect going on that needs synchrony, and as long as you can edit well to the beat/rhythm of the music to keep the motion semi-synchronous with the sounds. Otherwise, it'll look jerky and goofy. Length will (either way) be determined by the kept audio,
--or--
You can leave the audio and video unedited and live with it.

2. What inexpensive audio equipment will work with our shooting scenarios?

How much do you want to budget?
Do you have opportunity to plug in to a DJ's mixer, etc?
Do you need "clean audio" to be also recorded on the videocams, or can you work with a separate audio recorder? If yes to videocams, how portable/wireless do you need to be?

Scott

[Kurt S]

That would work but your going to need a lot of mics, a mixer, headphones to monitor, etc. This is going to get expensive fast. And you won't really get a good mix since the live music is going to overpower what you are hearing through your headphones. You could multitrack and mixdown later, but that's even more money for the equipment or software if you go with a multitrack soundcard and software.

I still think you are best off with a couple of PZM's.

[ozymango]

In turn, I was wondering, what kind of inexpensive audio recording equipment is available to record stage sound (live band playing)? What are our options? Original sound is very important to our clients. As long as the sound is clean and unbroken, broken video clips that headline the one sound track are fine.

I'm not sure what your hoped-for end is regarding the final soundtrack -- as has already been mentioned, it's pretty much all about compromises.

If it's just that you want to capture the band music primarily and cut video clips over that (perhaps mixing in a bit of that audio on top), it could be as simple as patching into the sound board -- assuming the band is amplified and has a sound board, which I'm guessing 95% of your bands will have -- with either a wired or wireless input to one camera's line or mic input. Then that could be your "master" audio track (pretty darn clean sound from the mixer) and you could "layer" other sounds on that later, in editing. Which is a whole 'nother thing you may have to consider.

You could also record to any number of portable recording devices (even a laptop), from the soundboard, though sync issues can be major when you do this. I like recording to a camera soundtrack if possible because I've just found it much easier to edit when it comes to timing (sync) issues.

And as everybody else has mentioned, there's no one single answer necessarily, it depends on what kind of sound you're looking for in the first place and even that may change from event to event.

EDIT: And none of this need cost terribly much -- it might be worthwhile for you to purchase a stand-alone mixer yourself, with just a few inputs, and those can be had for under $100 for a basic one (2 mics, couple of line inputs). That being said, to get the best audio track it really, really helps to have somebody "dedicated" to getting the sound, even if it's connecting to existing equipment -- you'll have enough on your hands to get the video, and ideally one other person should be focused on the sound. So depending on your workload and clientele, it may be more cost-effective to check around in your area for someone to do sound on a case-by-case basis (any colleges close by with music departments or radio stations? They can be a good source of starving-student labor!

[edDV]

The band has already got the mix they want at their mixer. Why duplicate all their mics? Best to take a feed from them to a DAT or wired/wireless to one of the camcorders. Those cams can record 4 tracks each from low or hi impedance, mic or line level.

When editing a concert, most lay down an audio track first and video edit to the audio track.

[olyteddy]

I second the PZM mic. I used to work on a live, interactive soap opera at a public access station and I'd use Omni Directional Lavaliere mics as close to the walls or other large flat surfaces to accomplish the PZM effect and usually had good audio. I've now got one of the (discontinued) Radio Shack ones and don't leave home without it.

[edDV]

I second the PZM mic. I used to work on a live, interactive soap opera at a public access station and I'd use Omni Directional Lavaliere mics as close to the walls or other large flat surfaces to accomplish the PZM effect and usually had good audio. I've now got one of the (discontinued) Radio Shack ones and don't leave home without it.

Depends whether you want the band to sound like it's on the Leno show or like you would hear it if mid house in the audience. You can always do both. You have 8 tracks to work with.

[rainrainrain]

Hi,

Thanks to everyone for the responses. I apologize for not getting back to your responses sooner, but i cross-posted this question on several forums and am currently analyzing the answers, so that I/we may decide the best solution to my problem. I'll keep you posted on my final decision.

Thanks again,
Stanley Sandler

[Hack1977]

When editing a concert, most lay down an audio track first and video edit to the audio track.

That seems backwards to me. I've always wanted the video edited first so that I can automate the mix to follow what the eyes expect to hear, so to say. an example being, a cut to a background singer during a chorus of a song, that mic might be mostly buried in the mix but I would push it up subtly when I saw the singer and pull it back slowly after the next cut. I provide a rough mix to edit the video to and then mix the audio when they're done.