upconverting xvid??

[catdaddio6]

hey guys i bought the xbox 360 hd-dvd add on,,,it is amazing btw,,but it got me thinking about buyin a new divx player that will upconvert,,so i know it will upconvert dvd's,,,but will they up convert divx/xvid files also??thanks

[catdaddio6]

cmon guys i rarely ask anything,,and i read here an awful lot,,i just wanna know if it will make divx fill my screen up naturally

[manono]

Yes, if you have an HDTV, if you use a digital connection, an upconverting DVD/MPEG-4 player will also upconvert your AVIs. If you use component, or don't have an upconverting player at all, the TV itself will do the upconverting.

i just wanna know if it will make divx fill my screen up naturally

I'm not sure what you mean by that, though. It's not as if they're going to look any (or much) better. They'll fill as much of the screen as the AVI resolution allows. A 1.33:1 AVI (640x480, 512x384, for example) will play on a widescreen TV with pillarbars (unless you screw it up by stretching or zooming). A 2.35:1 movie (640x272) will play on a widescreen TV set with bars above and below the active video. A 1.78:1 or 1.85:1 movie (624x352, 640x352) will probably fill the entire screen.

[vinland]

I posted similar question before and was told avi's will not look to impresive on hdtv.What will be the quality difference if i play upconverted avis(hdmi) and normal through component.Most of my avi files are really great quality(dvdrips).On my old tube i had no problem they looked amazing,while connected through s-video.I am plannin on getting Plasma soon i was wondering how will my avi's(dvdrips) look on it.I 've read somewhere that avi will look also nice on hdtv,can anybody approve that based on their experience??

[manono]

The better the TV set, the more the flaws in the source will become obvious. On my old tube TV, my AVIs looked great. On my HDTV I don't even like to watch them any more. Just my experience. Not every one will agree, I don't think.

[Baldrick]

Yep, same here. I can't watch most upconverted divx,xvid on my 1280x720 projector...even if I try add several filters on my HTPC.

[FulciLives]

I've been happy with MPEG-4 on my Philips DVP-5140 which is connected via component (and in progressive scan mode) to my 51 inch 16x9 HDTV (a CRT Rear Projection unit by Hitachi).

In this instance the TV is doing the up-conversion to 1080i and it looks good to me most of the time. If you have ultra compressed MPEG-4 files then yes you will see compression artifacts but on really well made MPEG-4 files (720 or 640 width with plenty of bitrate) they look fine to me.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[vinland]

I've been happy with MPEG-4 on my Philips DVP-5140 which is connected via component (and in progressive scan mode) to my 51 inch 16x9 HDTV (a CRT Rear Projection unit by Hitachi).

In this instance the TV is doing the up-conversion to 1080i and it looks good to me most of the time. If you have ultra compressed MPEG-4 files then yes you will see compression artifacts but on really well made MPEG-4 files (720 or 640 width with plenty of bitrate) they look fine to me.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

In your opinion how visible will be the difference between original dvd and a avis on an hdtv at 1080i.Also some of my avis are made with MPEG-3 does that make a big difference??

[TBoneit]

The avi will always look worse than its source. Creating the avi means another encode. How can that not make it look worse? Well if you are going from VHS to avi and then filter it properly it could look better when you create the final output avi.

However as vinland puts it, the difference may or may not be visible as that is a subjective judgement rather than a objective judgement. Many variables including player, TV etc.

To me, be happy with the original DVD on the HDTV. It won't look bad and making a 480i or 480p into 1080i will not add real resolution. Fill the screen? yes. Look better than on a SDTV? Yes. Look like HD? no. Look like nearly HD? To me yes.

Cheers

BTW the size of the TV will make a difference in how good it looks too.

[FulciLives]

Going back to the original question ... you don't need an up-converting DVD player in order to get "high quality".

In most instances the HDTV set does the up-conversion just as well if not BETTER than the DVD player.

Also all XviD and DviX files are MPEG-4 ... there is MP3 audio (also called, "MPEG-1 Audio Layer 3") but there is no MPEG-3 anything.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[catdaddio6]

i have a 62inch toshiba,,and a 5140,,i can stretch it to fit with full screen option but everyone looks fat headed that way,which is what i think the guy above means by his tv making it 1080i,,i have alot of xvids that look excellent on my tv,,with the sidebars at they're natural resolution,,i have an hd-dvd player and the movies are not stretched,,but it dont play avi's or upconvert my old dvds,,i want to know if an upconverter will display them full screen without the fat heads on dvd and avi's,,,oh and i dont think my tv upconverts anything on its own

[manono]

i want to know if an upconverter will display them full screen without the fat heads on dvd and avi's

Unless you screw them up by stretching or zooming, they'll display at their proper AR. This will mean black bars top/bottom or on the sides sometimes. I thought I already explained this in my first reply. Don't tell me that you're one of those people that thought buying a widescreen TV meant you wouldn't have to watch your movies with black bars any more?

oh and i dont think my tv upconverts anything on its own

Yes it does. What's the native resolution of your Toshiba? Probably 1280x720, or maybe 1920x1080? If your player outputs 480p, it has to get to (for example) 1280x720 somehow. Upconverting.

[FulciLives]

I have my Philips DVP-5140 set to progressive scan and 16x9 TV type.

When I play a MPEG-4 file (that is standard 1:1 or "square pixel" resolution) it actually somehow outputs it so it has a proper aspect ratio when I set my HDTV to "standard 16x9 WS mode".

However when in AUTO MODE my 16x9 WS TV will not automatically go to "standard 16x9 WS mode" nor is it an option until I turn off the AUTO MODE then I can pick "standard 16x9 WS mode" and all is fine.

I'm happy. Especially for $49 and change.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[vinland]

I just have one more question.I am pretty much a noobie to the whole hd technology.I was wondering how big will be the difference for dvd movies/avi's(dvdrips) watched on 1080i vs 1080P also do most tv's go to the their resolution mode automaticly(when connected with cables) or is there an option to set the resolution no matter what connection from the source.

[manono]

I already asked you the resolution of your TV set. Maybe you don't know. If you happen to give us the model number, we (or even you!) could find out. Anyway, whatever it is, that's the resolution at which everything will be displayed. Your TV will accept a variety of resolutions as input, but will output only one, its own. Me, I'd never own an interlaced (i. e., 1080i) HDTV. My next one will be 1080p. But I've never seen either 1080i or 1080p, so maybe someone else can answer the question about the differences when watching.

[politiken]

... but there is no MPEG-3 anything.

Actually there is.

MPEG-3
A proposed variant of the MPEG video and audio compression algorithm and file format. MPEG-3 was intended as an extension of MPEG-2 to cater for HDTV but was eventually merged into MPEG-2.

MPEG-3 should not be confused with MP3 which is MPEG-1 layer 3 popularly used for audio encoding.

Pol

[vinland]

I already asked you the resolution of your TV set. Maybe you don't know. If you happen to give us the model number, we (or even you!) could find out. Anyway, whatever it is, that's the resolution at which everything will be displayed. Your TV will accept a variety of resolutions as input, but will output only one, its own. Me, I'd never own an interlaced (i. e., 1080i) HDTV. My next one will be 1080p. But I've never seen either 1080i or 1080p, so maybe someone else can answer the question about the differences when watching.

If this was intended to me,i believe you made a mistake.I am not the thread starter and i do not own a Toshiba:P.I simply had a question so i asked in this post as it was related to the topic.Why did you write you will never own 1080i??

[manono]

Oh, I'm so sorry. I was careless, and didn't notice you were someone new. Please forgive me. My current set is 720p. My next set will be 1080p (although I'm in no hurry to get one as I love my Samsung). I think that going backwards and viewing my DVDs and TV programs interlaced makes no sense. A good 1080p set with Faroudja DCDi will handle progressive sources wonderfully, and do an excellent job deinterlacing interlaced sources (as does my current TV). There's lots of info out about the differences and the pros and cons of each type of TV. I come down squarely in the 720p and 1080p camp. I wouldn't own a 768p set either, although my wife loves the plasmas so much every time we go into Costco (our current TV is a DLP), that she may force the issue some day. We live in the boonies and don't have much chance to see the latest and greatest otherwise (the DLP was an online mail order).

[catdaddio6]

i dont know the native resolution its a toshiba 62hm95 dlp,,,,ok if a hdtv will naturally upconvert the source,then why do they even make upconvert dvd players??wouldnt it be pointless,,,also if i'm wathing 480i tv signal,,and hit full screen on tv,they look like weird midgets or someting,,i did find that one of the theater settings in widescreen made the avi's look normal for the most part....but please explain why theres upconvert dvd players if we really dont need them..and hte whole prog andinterlaced thing,,would my hd-dvd's look bvetter on 720 p instead of 1080i??same with my xbox 360 games??

[manono]

Your TV set is 1280x720.

In fact some, by no means all but some, of these new generation "up-scaling" DVD players produce a significantly better image than the previous generation of "progressive scan" players. Why this is so is due to several factors.

First the scaler in the player may be better than the scaler in the TV. The closer the player can get the data to the native resolution of the TV the less work the TV's scaler has to do.

Second, engineering continues to advance. Other factors than scaling are likely to be better in a good "up-scaling" player than in the previous generation players.

But the most important reasons why folks get good results from some of these new players is that the data stays entirely in the digital domain.

A player connected by analog cabling, such as S-video or component cabling, has to convert the digital data present on the DVD into analog TV signals. It usually does this as the very last thing it does -- in the video output stage -- because it is so useful to keep the signal in digital form for any other processing it needs to do first. The TV set receiving that analog signal ALSO wants to do processing of various forms -- which are done more cheaply, and for the most part better, with a digital signal. So the FIRST thing the TV does is convert the analog signal BACK to digital form.

Now these dual conversions introduce their own problems, but on top of that the conversions usually involve filtering of one form or another so that the signals work well across the widest range of source content -- some of which can be pretty crappy.

But an up-scaling player sends a digital signal to the TV which just leaves it in digital form. Thus no conversion noise and no filtering.

Given all that, it would seem natural that the best arrangement would be to use a digital connection for a *480* signal, and just leave it to the TV to do whatever scaling is needed -- once. Curiously, that is not often the best way to hook things up. HDTV-ready TV's are optimized for 1080i broadcast signals because that's how they are often judged in stores. That, plus any advantage that comes from having a better scaler in the player suggests that having the player upscale the DVD data and then feed that to the TV will give a better result even though a second scaling pass may be needed. There are additional advantages if you watch movies filmed in older 4:3 shape in that the player can put pillar boxes around the movie content without loss of movie resolution because the player is sending a higher resolution signal.

The bottom line is that despite the best efforts of the marketing guys to pull a fast one here, many of the better up-scaling players DO INDEED produce a significantly better image on many HDTV-ready TVs. Some of that is due to the digital connection, but some is also due to the combination of de-interlacing and scaling technologies working well to produce a signal the TV happens to be optimized to display. Combine that with other improvements naturally occurring with each product cycle and you get a better player.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=477740

[catdaddio6]

ok,,so should i run in 720p thenwhile watching dvds' or playing my 360??because it seems like alot of stuff has to go on,,scaling then reinterlacing the picture after thAt in 1080i,,so wouldnt i lose alittle quality by the time all is said and done by staying in 1080i???also where did you go to find my tv info??found this article also,not related to upconverting though http://ezinearticles.com/?720p-Vs-1080i-HDTV&id=91443
but my main question is will avi's look better on my big screen running through an upconverted dvd player,like the 5960 or something????

[manono]

ok,,so should i run in 720p thenwhile watching dvds'

You upconvert to whatever looks the best, probably 720p. If 720p looks better than 1080i, as it probably will, then don't upconvert to 1080i.

also where did you go to find my tv info??

Dozens of places, if I cared to look that much. You could do the same. You might even read your manual, as I expect it's in there somewhere.

Toshiba TheaterWide 62HM95 62 Inch Rear Projection Flat Screen HDTV DLP TV incorporates Texas Instruments DLP technology with Toshiba's Toshiba Advanced Light Engine (TALEN) to deliver an outstanding image for up to 1280x720 HDTV resolution. In addition, Toshiba adds PixelPure technology which up-converts most video signals to 720p so that virtually all TV and video programming is presented for optimal viewing.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/product-description/B000AKX12E/ref=dp_proddesc_0/104-...&s=electronics

but my main question is will avi's look better on my big screen running through an upconverted dvd player,like the 5960 or something????

I don't know how they'll look to you. They just look kind of blurry to me, and definitely worse than they did on my old tube TV.

[catdaddio6]

actually alot of them look like dvd's to me,,well close anyway