DEBATE! Which media to use?? (camcorder)

[dvnoob]

Ok, in the market for a new camcorder so.............

Do I get a DV, DVD, or the one with the HD in it?

What are the pros and cons?

WHich is a good or bad model?

YAY!

[Bjs]

Dv dont last ... head's can be easily damaged / dirt can enter unit if not careful with storage ... cheaper

Dvd ... not all disc's may work when you need them too , such as children sport's event's ... much crap media available ... price's coming down

Hd ... best ... very long life span ... practically bullet / fool / idiot proofed ... market price's are very good ...

Just make sure it has the ability to be used as a passthough device ... as in vcr > hd cam > pc hd ... that be a bonus .

[pijetro]

Bjs wrote:

Dv dont last ... head's can be easily damaged / dirt can enter unit if not careful with storage ... cheaper

DV tapes properly stored should last ..

Dvd ... not all disc's may work when you need them too , such as children sport's event's ... much crap media available ... price's coming down

Most cameras with DVD media are sacrificing quality of output IMHO..

Hd ... best ... very long life span ... practically bullet / fool / idiot proofed ... market price's are very good ...

In theory yes, but in practice, i'd be apprehensive..Most cameras utilizing HD's are compressing the information to MPEG..This isn't the choice for people who want to edit down the road..
BTW, HD's are known to fail also..

@dvnoob,
you need to tell us what your priorities are..
Price, image quality, major usages, editing, family footage, nature footage etc...

[MrSpeed]

DV is still the way to go. You can only get 18-30 minutes on a DVD recorder. Also DVD and HD cameras do save in a lossy format (MEPEG2).

DV cameras are cheaper and then you could always buy a desktop DVD recorder to make DVD's quickly. if stored properly DV tapes will last a long time.

Another option that is more expensive but future proof is to get a HD cam like the Sony Sony HDR-HC3 or Sony HDR-HC1. I'm pretty sure you can record in HD but export in Sd if necessary.

[edDV]

DV is still the way to go. You can only get 18-30 minutes on a DVD recorder. Also DVD and HD cameras do save in a lossy format (MEPEG2).

DV cameras are cheaper and then you could always buy a desktop DVD recorder to make DVD's quickly. if stored properly DV tapes will last a long time.

Another option that is more expensive but future proof is to get a HD cam like the Sony Sony HDR-HC3 or Sony HDR-HC1. I'm pretty sure you can record in HD but export in Sd if necessary.

Agreed, current consumer DVD and HD record 1/3 quality 8Mb/s MPeg2 at best settings.

3CCD 25 Mb/s DV still rules at SD resolutions and has been reliable for me. If you want high camera quality plus DV format quality to HDD look at the firestore.
http://www.videoguys.com/FireStore.html

[dvnoob]

wow, I think all 3 got at least 1 vote. for me, quality is the utmost importance. price isnt an issue really, it would be used for family functons and sporting events... I would rarely edit, as of now its 1 dv tape to 1 dvd and i have never edited yet.

DV to AVI to MPEG to VOB then burn to DVD is alot of work and god only knows if i am really srewing up the quality along the way.

if I use one thats HD, its saving in MPEG already? is it very little compression?

hope this helps

[thecoalman]

DV to AVI to MPEG to VOB then burn to DVD is alot of work and god only knows if i am really srewing up the quality along the way.

Whoa... back the horse up a bit... :P When you capture DV you should "capturing" as DV-AVI which is essentially copying the video from your cam to computer so you have no loss there. From there it depends on your software but MPEG and VOB both comtain the same video and audio streams so there is no conversion when going from MPEG to VOB.

What it boils down to is you only need to make one conversion from DV-AVI to MPEG or VOB depending on your software and the process you are using.

If you really want to streamline your process with a decent result get Ulead's Movie Factory. Capture the DV-AVI, drop it on the first play in the timeline and burn away....

[edDV]

Or dump your camcorder DV realtime to a DVD recorder with IEEE-1394 input. Push play on the camcorder and record on the DVD recorder.

If your main goal is quality, you won't get a good camera section in a DVD or HD camcorder. These are strictly targeted at medium low consumer.

You might want to consider a HDV format camcorder like the Sony HC3. Those will record in DV or HDV format both at the same 25 Mb/s bitrate. HDV uses MPeg2 and of course is more compressed to get 1440x1080i vs 720x480i resolution.

If HDV isn't high enough quality, next step up for Sony is XDCAM IMXHD (about $29,000) but hey, price is no object. Panasonic can also do DVCProHD starting around $10,000.

[dvnoob]

well, the xdcam sounds tempting, however, I think I will buy a new car instead....

ok, now comes the really dumb questions.....

an HD camcorder is a hard drive camcorder, and its crap?

an HDV camcorder, like the hc3 is a ?????? hard drive or a tape?

the HDV sony HC3 is about 700ish and the HC1 is about 1000, that i can live with.

[edDV]

The JVC hard disk is low-med performance. Same as a DVD camcorder.
HC1, HC3 use MiniDV tape for DV or HDV recording.

[Marvingj]

DV is not lossless. DV compression does
throw away
some data, but it is so unnoticeable, if not undetectable, that most
people
forget that it is compressed. At least when you copy the video from
your
camera to your computer, edit it, and copy it back to DV tape, there
is NO
loss in quality at all. This is not true with DVD based cameras.

Some people talk about the ease of use with some DVD cameras, but the hardware
and
software (or lack of) that is required seems to make up for any ease
of use.
There will also be more loss in quality with the DVD cameras.
Although tape
is more fragile than disks (or is it?), it is still the best way to
store
gigs of video, and that is what you need for good quality. Mpeg
video just
isn't made for editing, and although it can be done, there are
drawbacks,
mainly related to quality loss. DV cameras are, by far, the most
popular
type of camcorder. I believe that current disk based cameras are
just flash
in the pan, since we are on the brink of newer and denser disk based
storage. Until there is an erasable disk that holds as much as DV
tape, and
is the same price, this method of storing video is simply not viable
in most
cases.

[edDV]

DV is not lossless. DV compression does throw away
some data, but it is so unnoticeable, if not undetectable, that most people
forget that it is compressed. At least when you copy the video from your
camera to your computer, edit it, and copy it back to DV tape, there
is NO loss in quality at all. This is not true with DVD based cameras.

Some people talk about the ease of use with some DVD cameras, but the
hardware and software (or lack of) that is required seems to make up for
any ease of use. There will also be more loss in quality with the DVD cameras.

Although tape is more fragile than disks (or is it?), it is still the best way to
store gigs of video, and that is what you need for good quality. Mpeg
video just isn't made for editing, and although it can be done, there are
drawbacks, mainly related to quality loss. DV cameras are, by far, the most
popular type of camcorder. I believe that current disk based cameras are
just flash in the pan, since we are on the brink of newer and denser disk based
storage. Until there is an erasable disk that holds as much as DV tape, and is
the same price, this method of storing video is simply not viable in most cases.

Future camcorder designs will probably move to flash storage (no moving parts). The current prosumer Panasonic P2 cards are predictive of future workflows. We aren't there yet but costs will drop to make removable flash memory affordable for the consumer market and this will shrink and simplify high definition camcorder design.