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Stupid stupid stupid stupid .. and they just lost the advantage. Perhaps capitulating to studio pressure, the DVD Forum has moved to burden the next-generation HD DVD format with region coding similar to that of its predecessor. Called Region Protection Coding, the new specification will function in much the same way as current DVDs do: restricting players from showing content from discs purchased outside of the player's region. The number of regions and the geographies they each will cover are not yet known.
Blu-ray is also using region encoding, narrowing the seven regions of the current DVD specification down to three. In a somewhat curious move, Blu-ray is combining the Americas and much of Asia into a single region, meaning that US anime fans will be able to easily import and watch the latest and greatest from Japan for viewing on their PlayStation 3 or US$1,000 Blu-ray players.
If RPC is ultimately approved and incorporated into the HD DVD format, it is unclear how the players that have already been sold will handle it. The most logical solution would be to allow the current handful of HD DVD players already on the market to play any HD DVD. Unfortunately, history tell us that logic is not one of the entertainment industry's strong suits, so it's not outside the realm of possibility that region-coded HD DVDs will cause problems for some early adopters.
Many have questioned the need for region coding at all. It is ostensibly an antipiracy measure, as it supposedly ensures that a DVD released in the US can't be shipped to southeast Asia, copied, and resold. In reality, region-free DVD players have been widely available in the past—before a studio-led crackdown—and there other ways *cough*DeCSS*cough* around the issue.
Backers of both formats are already facing enough challenges in getting consumers to bite on one of the two formats. There's the expense—the first Blu-ray players to hit the market next month will cost US$1,000 while the HD DVD players have made their debut at about half of that. There's also a lack of movies available for the formats, although that will gradually change over time. Now it looks as though both formats will have restrictions on where purchased discs can be played. At least they've apparently decided not to implement the Image Constraint Token—which would downgrade the content for analog displays—for the next few years.
http://www.guru3d.com/newsitem.php?id=3960
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060526-6927.html
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Seeing the size of that Blu-ray player in the pic you have, reminds me of the super two ton Betamax machines of 79.
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JA!
It looks like the old top-loader VCR's from the early 80's with the VHF & UHF knobs on the front for channel selection
the more and more I read about these two new formats, the more and more I want to pass on both..."To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research." - Steven Wright
"Megalomaniacal, and harder than the rest!"
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I still remember loading the first Betamax machine into a compact car.... and the suspension sagged.
Still a few bugs in the system...
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We had one of those VCRsOriginally Posted by Xylob the DestroyerJA!
It looks like the old top-loader VCR's from the early 80's with the VHF & UHF knobs on the front for channel selection
the more and more I read about these two new formats, the more and more I want to pass on both...
The case on ours had a fake wood design and that thing was huge.
We had to take it in for repairs one time and the guy who serviced it told us it was much easier for him to work on the top loader kind rather than the "new" kind.
And I agree with you on these new formats for the time being.
I'm taking the wait and see approach. I need to see which format wins and if it proves to be less functional than what I have now (and intrusive on my privacy), then there is no point in "upgrading" until the prices drop way down enough for me to just have one to play with.
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Interestingly enough one review I read said that you can't really notice the difference between the next gen movies and regular dvds unless you have a hdtv thats over 36 inches in size. If true I can't imaging thats a large market currently for hdtv owners.
Donatello - The Shredder? Michelangelo - Maybe all that hardware is for making coleslaw?
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me tooOriginally Posted by yoda313
I don't want a larger tv than 42" anyway....unless I get a house with build in theatre room....
3/4 of that player is just air.....
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I was thinking the same thing.Originally Posted by mazinz
I hope they have the same fate.
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That's not a Blu-Ray player it's a HD DVD player.Originally Posted by mazinz
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The interesting thing about this is, for 1920x1080/24p movies there is no split into PAL and NTSC regions anymore. The actual disc is potentially the same worldwide. Region coding can follow marketing desires rather than TV system specs.Originally Posted by roma_turok
The players do differ regionally but only for playing conventional DVD or for downscaling to composite.
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I thought Region coding was always about marketing and nothing to do with TV systems. Hence Japan NTSC Region 2, and US NTSC Region 1. Why let the Japanese pay $10 for a DVD when you can make them pay $20?
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But the new scheme puts the Americas and the entire Pacific Rim in the same region because they think this makes marketing sense. None of this affects SD DVD regions.Originally Posted by KBeee
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Region coding was about stopping some asian countries selling bootlegs versions and preserving the right to do staggered releasing. Even DVD region codes have ittle to do with format, as Region 2 encompasses Japan (NTSC) and the UK (PAL). Similarly, Region 4 covers Australia/NZ, and South America.
Read my blog here.
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I forgot about Region 4, etc. I guess nothing is much changed or interesting about region codes other than the larger region 1.
Recommends: Kiva.org - Loans that change lives.
http://www.kiva.org/about
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This brings up an intressing question.
What will happen to countries in South America, like Brazil.
DVDs are hugely successful there, and it is currently Region 4. But apparently when HD-DVD comes to this country it will be as region 1. So what happens actualy with the player?
Will it be like DVD Region 4 & HD-DVD Region 1.
Or will it be only Region 1 and will not play Region 4 DVDs, which sounds pretty stupid.
It only adds more layer of confusion, I wonder how much crap the customers can take.
From my perspective, unless there is a big change on how this whole thing with HD players are being developed, or it will fail as a mass product and will only be used as a fancy device for some hard core fans. But the general public will stick with normal DVD.
Regards.
Reco
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There are still legacy reasons (e.g. playing old DVD regions and PAL-N/PAL-M display compatibility) that HD players will differ in South America.Originally Posted by reco
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Makes no difference to me or 80% of the other consumers. We have never seen a reason for watching DVDs outside of our region. There are some who do, some with legitimate reasons, others with ulterior motivations. Region coding is put into place for similiar reasons that copy protection is used. To prevent theft and to support the rights of the content owners to release their copyrighted material where and how they see fit.
The end consumer may be responsibly enough to respect that but unfortunately the unscrupulous amongst us have only increased the need for additional and permanent protection across the marketplace. Sad as that is, some us must suffer through these things because some people can not stop being thieves. They see it as their right to purchase a $2 DVD in east asia when the true value is much higher and of that $2 nobody who actually owns the content makes any profit. Let us not forget, entertainment industry executives don't care about you and me, they care about profit. In order to supply the artist, who in most cases does care about you and entertaining you, you must supply the executive with profit and the artist with a paycheck. Those who sell you a $2 DVD do not care about you. They only care about continuing to support the methods which prevent you from making backups, using discs outside your region, or otherwise using a disc in a legal way but in a manner unintended by the entertainment industry.
Here's something to think about: If nobody stole media contents or used it in any manner unintended by those who provide them to you, would there be any need for protection of the contents?
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@ROF,
I've been reading your pro-MPAA posts for awhile and never responded but I have to strongly disagree with you on this one.
Region coding is STUPID there's no logic to it whatsoever.I have worked in the business world long enough to realize that by excluding part of the consumers from your product it hurts your sales.If the content owners want to protect their profits then they can sell their DVD's at the same price for everyone at the same time...no different than CD's,books,electronics,etc.Price should be dictated by quantity purchased:if a distributor buys more then they get a better price,that's why Walmart usually has the best price.
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You cannot possibly think you correct in your thinking? If you look at other technology there is alot of exclusion going on based on geographical reason. First, The MPAA does not apply region coding. As a matter of fact, their regional "reach" is quite limited and the MPAA does not effect or have anything to do with regional coding. You may claim to have worked in the business world a long time but you are thinking more like a consumer then a content producing business by your ethos. Price will not determine protection.Originally Posted by MOVIEGEEK
People rob candy stores while a bank is right next door. Why? Opportunity and less protective measures used to safeguard the sugary sweets are two good reasons. When we speak of DVD protection, opportunity at the POS will not protect the contents of the DVD when it leaves the store.
Therefore, protective measures must be put upon the content which safeguards it's entertainment value. Calling them stupid is a reaction some people seem to have because they do not understand them. You may not agree with the protective measures. I know I certainly don't, but since the world is full of thieves who do not read and adhere to licensing agreements, these protections have become a necessity to protection of media contents.
I am going to guess you fall into the 5-10% category of consumers who do not like the protection measures because they limit your ability to viably play your media contents in a manner that may not be entirely consistent with the license agreement provided with them and you also are not simply sharing the media contents with others and thus commiting outright piracy. An example would be to backing up your media to be played in a different format on a portable device. The protections put into place must have this side effect. It's not that you are stealing but the unscupulous amongst us who have no moral backbone do exactly as you do but instead of keeping the copy and original for thier viewing purposes only, they take the backup and share it with their friends by providing DVD Recordable Discs with illegal content backups or worse they provide them to any internet prying eyes on P2P software. Which leads to another falsehood. The MPAA or any other entertainment content industrialist does not oppose P2P software. They oppose what is being shared. Content Producers are using P2P networks to provide their entertainment contents. In alot of cases, this P2P content is also limited by region.
Is the PS3 going to be released worldwide to every consumer for the same price? Was it's predecessor? How the XBox 360? Palms latest PDA? Verizons new cell? See a pattern forming? You might believe that region coding limits profits but that is because you are approaching the region coding from a consumer and not someone who has been the business world for years.
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While officially much was made about region codes being an anti-paracy measure when first announced, it is naive to believe that that MPAA did not have a great influence over the original decision, purely as a ploy to further extend their monopoly on staged releases.
I have no problem with them releasing films to a region as they see fit. I actually applaud the pirates to a degree in so far as they have caused a re-think and forced this short-sighted monopoly to release major films at least almost simutaneously, rather than forcing some regions to wait up to a year or more to get a film.
This is why I have imported many discs. Many films are available on DVD in region 1 (or other regions) 3, 6 or even 12 months or more before we see them is frustrating. Equally frustrating is to see sepcial editions released to ther regions while we get bare-boned releases locally. I know some of this is at the discretion of the local releasing companies, but much of it is dictated.
Whereever a monopoly is allowed to flurish, it is ultimately the consumer that suffers. The MPAA is a monopoly in word and deed, if not legal definition.Read my blog here.
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You are way off base as usual. You make it about stealing, when it is not. It makes sense to release all over the world at the same time. That way you can maximize your sales. Why should I not be able to buy a disc that is not available here in the US that is on sale in the UK and watch it?Originally Posted by ROF
Not everyone has malicious motives.
Think.....Man......Think
Believing yourself to be secure only takes one cracker to dispel your belief.
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All DVDs in South America (Region 4) are NTSC.Originally Posted by edDV
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I agree not everyone has malicious motives. Read what I wrote and you will see that I don't believe that to be true of everyone including those who want to watch their media in a format different from how they purchased it.Originally Posted by Dv8ted2You are way off base as usual. You make it about stealing, when it is not. It makes sense to release all over the world at the same time. That way you can maximize your sales. Why should I not be able to buy a disc that is not available here in the US that is on sale in the UK and watch it?Originally Posted by ROF
Not everyone has malicious motives.
Think.....Man......Think
Why should you not be able to buy a disc that is not svailable in the US that is on sale in the UK and watch it in your region?
Simple. The owner of the copyrighted material does not want you to. It is their right to release the media wherever and to whomever they choose. You do not own the content therefore you may not be entitled to view it as intended by the rights holder. Another common misconception is that by purchasing a disc you somehow own the contents. That is false. You have the licensed right to view the media in it's original format and with all safeguards in place, including region coding.
As I have said, you may not like it. I may not like it. But neither of us own the media contents.
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Guns1inger - Is it legal to sell a non-multizone player here in aus ?
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There is no restriction on region coded or non-region coded from what I understand. In some stores it is almost impossible to buy a player that isn't multi-region. It isn't illegal to import discs from outside the country for personal use either. It does change if you import for sale, primarily because you are selling material that has not been through the classification board. There are a couple of stores in Melbourne that do this, and they get busted from time to time. Minator Books got busted early this year for selling unclassified material.
Read my blog here.
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Let's keep thinking that shall we.Simple. The owner of the copyrighted material does not want you to. It is their right to release the media wherever and to whomever they choose. You do not own the content therefore you may not be entitled to view it as intended by the rights holder. Another common misconception is that by purchasing a disc you somehow own the contents. That is false. You have the licensed right to view the media in it's original format and with all safeguards in place, including region coding.
There are some flaws to that argument.
#1. It is their right to release the media wherever and to whomever they choose.
That would be correct IF the following were true:
a.) It were illegal to import a DVD from a different country in a different region.
As it stands it is not illegal for a US citizen to purchase DVDs from other countries.
b.) It were illegal to buy multizone DVD players.
As it stands it is not illegal for a US citizen to purchase multizone DVD players. In fact in other countries, New Zealand, it is LEGAL to open up a DVD player and modify it to be multizone.
What is also interesting is the number of DVD player manufacturers that sell players that can be made multizone by entering in a code from the remote. The manufacturer could easily disable this feature. The fact that they don't speaks volumes. The MPAA could easily bring a law suit against the manufacturers for being complicit in the piracy trade.
#2. Another common misconception is that by purchasing a disc you somehow own the contents.
Interesting and the RIAA would have you believe it's illegal to buy and sell used cds. Guess what, it's not. It's not for DVD either. We have a thing in America called property. Americans like to own things.
Thus I can buy a DVD and give it to someone else. I can buy a DVD and sell it to someone else. I can buy a DVD and destroy it. I can invite people over and show them the DVD. I can let people borrow the DVD. Hell I can even invite people over and charge them a fee to watch the DVD! The only thing I cannot do is make several copies and sell them.
Also, there are video retail outlets that take DVDs and reedit them to be family friendly and rent them out. They can do that too.
Welcome to capitalism comrade.
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The industry cannot have it both ways. They even advertise own it on dvd on Tuesday. You either own it or the industry should stop the deceptive advertising. The rule of thumb has always been whatever you buy, you own. Now within the last decade, the industry has tried putting their own spin on it by saying you purchased a license to watch it. I say they are full of it.Originally Posted by ROF
By shunting the market, the movie industry is shooting itself in the foot.Believing yourself to be secure only takes one cracker to dispel your belief.
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And there in lies the misconception. You own the disc, you do not own the contents. You own the license to view it in the manner that the content owner allows via your viewing license.Originally Posted by Dv8ted2
Will you please link to a DVD Players Manufacturers Site that has firmware for making their player a Multi-Zone DVD Player?Originally Posted by RLT69
You are also incorrect. The DMCA states that it is illegal for a US Citizen to "circumvent a scheme used to restrict access to copyrighted material." By importing the DVD you are violating the law by circumventing a scheme setup to restrict access to copyright material and can sent to jail or fined heavily for doing so. Is that fair or right? I don't think so, but it is the law.
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It's no surprise to me that both BR and HDDVD will be region-coded; it seems the people in charge of Big Media are all micro-managers who are obsessive-compulsive about "controlling" artwork that has been sold to ordinary mortals (to the point of hiring lawyers to create the "licensing" myth and now deciding that ripping owned CD's into your own computer is a "violation").
It doesn't matter though - I may be wrong, but my guess is that both BR and HDDVD will fail to find mainstream acceptance in the marketplace and we'll all be watching DVD's for years to come. BR and HDDVD - the new SACD and DVDA!
All the best,
Morse
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Will you please link to a DVD Players Manufacturers Site that has firmware for making their player a Multi-Zone DVD Player?
Try checking the DVD Hacks list here on this web site. Philips brand is widely known to allow the users to reprogram the region code of the unit using its' remote control, e.g. Philips DVDP 727. You don't need to change the firmware on this unit.
How exactly is a US citizen circumventing anything if they purchase a DVD from the UK [region 2 PAL] and play it on the dvd-rom in their computer, which ALLOWS them to play it as is without modification! Seems to me if this is illegal that the computer manufacturers are also guilty of violating the DMCA.You are also incorrect. The DMCA states that it is illegal for a US Citizen to "circumvent a scheme used to restrict access to copyrighted material." By importing the DVD you are violating the law by circumventing a scheme setup to restrict access to copyright material and can sent to jail or fined heavily for doing so. Is that fair or right? I don't think so, but it is the law.
Of course you are not in violation of the DMCA if you have a properly licensed software program that allows you to play the DVD, such as PowerDVD or WinDVD.
Thus a US citizen can play a DVD, purchased from another country, on their computer.
Your KGB tactics will not work here comrade. Welcome capitalism!
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