Automotive Modification

[smearbrick1]

Does anyone else think the producers of "The Fast And Furious" should be caned? I tend to feel this way. Ever since the release of this movie, the whole import tuning craze has gone nuclear. People have gone insane as have the companies that make these little "addons". Most recently, I saw a kid (he was about 17) in a 1785 (that's right, it looked over 200 hundred years old) Cavalier. The car was basically held together by rust which was covered in duct tape. The car had a two-tiered aluminum wing on the trunk and a stainless steel performance muffler. Am I missing something? This is like putting leather seats in a backhoe! Today I'm reading a Mazda 6 owners forum and their discussing hood pins! Hood pins? For a car that has maybe 185 WHP? Hell, the speed limiter (120) would kick in before the hood would fly up. They are also talking about adding nitrous and cold air intakes and wings and body kits and fender rolling... etc, etc, etc...

What the hell is this craze with painting the interior? Am I old (I'm 29)? Did I miss a meeting concerning about car interiors and how factory colors just aren't cutting it. The first time I saw that someone posted a question about painting LEATHER I almost passed a stone. Who in the hell paints leather on purpose?

Thanks for listening. I have to calm down now.

[northcat_8]

I just laugh at them everytime I hear them rev that little 4 cylinder up or hear them go by with the modified exhaust.

They are the new modern day "street rodders". Give me a 69' Z28 chromed out with a nice cam anyday. No 4 banger is going to give up the "Wop-pop-pop" of a good ol' american V8.

Plus I think it's more impressive for a car to pull it's front wheels off the ground than to have pretty blue ground effects.

[rallynavvie]

Yeah but if done right many of those 4-bangers can walk on an American muscle car because they make just as much power but weigh half as much. At the track I've seen an older (mid-80s) VW GTi that didn't look very fast but it weighed next to nothing and had a supercharged engine harassing a C4 Corvette which was stripped down for racing. In the straights the Vette would pull away but as soon as the corners came (which is 80% of the course here) the GTi would be right up on his bumper. And both had good drivers in them. My old car, an Impreza 2.5RS with an aftermarket turbo and Haltech engine management, looked stock outwardly but was something to behold on the track. In my run group I was always fighting with these two guys who had an AMG shell and a Audi TT for who should be first in the run group (these were contract passing events) but the steward would put them in front and I'd have to wait for a pass flag to get around them every time.

But I totally agree with you on the silly cosmetic mods people do to their cars. First of all spoilers are nearly useless unless you're going over 100mph often enough for it to be able to actually provide much downforce. And even then they're completely useless on a FWD car since you don't want downforce on the rear of your car, especially at high speeds. And the fartcan mufflers they put on their cars are just to draw attention to their car as they're entirely cosmetic too. One of my editors wrote some funny articles on this whole craze:
http://www.4wheelracing.com/media/exhaust.html

A lot of these mods are fed by fallacies and misconceptions about cars, fed in part by rubbish like The Fast and the Furious. Some of the common ones:
- higher octane gas will make a car faster
- putting a loud muffler on will make a car faster
- a cold air intake is still a cold air intake even though it's sucking in air from the engine bay
- that same hot air intake will make a car faster
- nitrous systems cause passenger side footwells to blow off when racing if you're not careful
- spoilers improve performance on FWD cars
- the more wings a spoiler has or the larger it is the more performance you get
- in all cases my stock engine and ECU will be able to handle all the junk done to my car

I could go on and on. I make fun of them by pointing out their misinformation any chance I get. As for the rest of the cosmetic mods like stickers, neon lights, and all that it may have a place at car shows and stuff but I'd rather spend my money on parts that make my car fast without making it look fast. I love driving a sleeper. My new grocery-getter Legacy GT puts down 400 lb-ft of torque to all four tires 8)

[northcat_8]

2 things...

#1 - American Muscle cars are typically built to run 1/4 mile, not laps. I haven't seen very many rice burners be able to throw V8 horsepower to the ground to run good quarter times. The foreign cars are built for high RPM and top end speed, where as the fairly stock American V8 will not hold nearly the RPMs.

I don't see too many foreign entries into any NASCAR events, and you don't see too many american (Chevy, Ford, Dodge) entries in the IRL...I wonder why that is?

#2 - if you are talking top end speed then skip the 4 wheel vehicles you panzies, sprout a pair, buy a Kawasaki ZX-1100, have it dyno'd, jetted, put in a supercoil, remove the spark arrestor, Vance and Heinz header and go from 0 to dead in less than 4 seconds. I mean if you want to just go fast, you want to reach top end, then by GOD don't half ass it, go for it. Feel what 200+ mph feels like on a public road...just becareful, while moving at 200+ mph may be fun, suddenly stopping while traveling at that speed is going to suck.

I will be honest, I do like driving those little cars, they are just like driving go carts. My wife drives a 2000 Grand Am GT with the V6 in it... I love that car, it hangs corners like it's on rails, great acceleration and it will run every bit of the speedometer (150) but like I said...it's a go-cart, but I'd still rather be driving my cousin's 55' Chevy, 350 V8 bored 30 over, Tri-Power, muncie 4 speed, hurst slap shifter... ...but it's a show car and he won't let me drive it phucker..and I helped build it

I'm not at all impressed with the F&F street rodders, I'll race any one of those Fast and Furious wannabes and I'll drive my old 91' GMC 4x4...I'll race them anytime, so long as I get to pick the cornfield.

[smearbrick1]

Currently, American car makers are bringing back the whole muscle car culture (or try to). 400 horsepower HEMIs in Chargers, Magnums, and Dodge Rams... 4.6L, 302 HP engines in Mustang GTs, and 308 HP small block V8s in Chevy's revitalized SS lineup (Impala, Monte Carlo)... If you look deeper though, you start to see that something is amiss.

Wait a second! That Impala SS and Monte Carlo SS are front wheel drive! What the hell? Can you say torque steer?

The Chrysler offerings are only offered with automatic transmissions! I believe the early muscle car pioneers never intended this.

The Mustang... well, I really don't have anything to say about it. It was quite well done.

What is happening to our beloved muscle car culture?

Oh well... all good things must come to end... only to be resurrected by some moron who doesn't know the first thing about muscle cars.

If you ever get a chance, check out what some of the people talk about in the forums at www.mazda6club.com. These people are insane. Here you have a mild-mannered, 4-door sedan. Sure it has some power, some sporty looks, and a sport suspension. These people act like it is the second coming. I've read about guys dropping $1,200.00 on a set of headers just to add 10 HP! Let's not forget the cold air intake that is specifically designed for the mazda that costs $500.00 that supposedly adds up to 20 whp! Where do they get these numbers? Intermixed with these stories about suspension mods and engine mods, you start noticing people talking about having 2 kids and looking for jobs and this being their only car. Where the hell did their priorities go?

[rallynavvie]

If you ever get a chance, check out what some of the people talk about in the forums at www.mazda6club.com. These people are insane. Here you have a mild-mannered, 4-door sedan. Sure it has some power, some sporty looks, and a sport suspension. These people act like it is the second coming. I've read about guys dropping $1,200.00 on a set of headers just to add 10 HP! Let's not forget the cold air intake that is specifically designed for the mazda that costs $500.00 that supposedly adds up to 20 whp! Where do they get these numbers? Intermixed with these stories about suspension mods and engine mods, you start noticing people talking about having 2 kids and looking for jobs and this being their only car. Where the hell did their priorities go?

I think you just described every car enthuisiast web forum in the world

[ZAPPER]

0 to dead in four seconds is right! And if you keep it wide open for 60 seconds you will be two days younger when you get off of the damn thing! A buddy of mine had an old (well it wasn't old then) Kaw 1100 I think it was. Bored, stroked, jetted and slicker than snake shit! 0 to stained underpants for me! How I lived through that ride is one of the seven wonders of my life.

Acceleration is a blast, but deceleration is what kills you!

[hech54]

1) The HP to Weight ratio WORKS. I love to see giant V8 car owners get their asses handed to them by a Honda Civic Si or Acura Integra GSR....and "back in the old days"....the famous Dodge Colt GTS(actually a Mitsubishi).
Technology marches on but for some reason the gearheads of yesteryear/yesterdecade seem to be stuck in 4th gear...when the competition now has 6 gears.
Oh and by the way....they may not be the fastest, the largest or most stylish cars in the world....but ALL Hyundai's passed the safety tests with 5 stars...the first company ever to do so.
Bigger is not faster....and bigger is not safer.

2)....re-read #1.

[Cobra]

2.0l engine, four cylinder, 405BHP, 355lb/ft torque.

0-60mph in 3.5 seconds.
0-100mph in 9.1 seconds.
Engine has to be physically restrained (limited) at 175mph.

http://www.channel4.com/4car/road-tests/driving-impressions-2004/M/mitsubishi/evo-fq40...vo-fq-400.html

Yes, the big American engines are nice - big, torquey, brutal, great-sounding beasts. But they're no match for a properly-tuned car.

So don't have a crack at the four cylinder engine. A lot of them beat those big V8 engines in economy and performance. Oh, and this thing (along with many, many others) doesn't suffer a heart attack when they see a corner, unlike many big-engined "sports" cars. What good is a car that goes fast in a straight line but can't handle corners for real life driving?

As for modding cars, I see a lot of them that are just tasteless, but I see some subtly modded cars where the owner has just added a hint of style to make it different, and the result is that you find yourself asking "Why didn't the manufacturer do that?".

[guns1inger]

Did you see them test drive this on Top Gear a season or two ago. Put it on the test track against a Lamborgini, with the challenge that the Lambo would not be able to pull away. It couldn't. The EVO sat right on it's tail at full speed. This car is basically fly-by-wire, and will not lose traction and skid, even when cornering at top speed on three wheels.

However the superchargers have such a huge lag if you are not at precisely the right speed that a 1.5 ltr Fiat beat the same EVO from a standing start across a 1.5 mile straight.

Apparently the model under this is a much better package.

[Cobra]

It's a turbocharger - superchargers have no lag, which is what makes them so good. The turbo lag is ridiculous on the Evo, but once you know how to drive it, it will eat pretty much everything else alive.

I do have that Top Gear review somewhere - I could try to find it, rip it and put it up, but I suspect it could be considered warez so I won't.

It was great to see, though - it was Jeremy Clarkson in the Evo and someone else in the Lambo, wasn't it?

I think it was the same test when they had a Fiat (I think) and the Evo in fourth gear at 30mph. They floored it... and over a mile, the Fiat won! However, seconds after they crossed the line the Evo hit the magic rev mark and went howling away at warp speed.

You've got to pay attention to get the best out of that car, but it's worth it. Anyway - 405BHP from a 2.0l engine? That's just astonishing.

[ZAPPER]

@ Cobra

Yep. You are pretty much spot on the money. I am an old timer and fond of American iron V-8s, but the numbers don't lie and even though I resent the fact, things have changed. (Dang young'uns). I took my first spin in a Datsun Z around 79 or so and couldn't believe it. That was a factory job back then. Now there is so much going into aftermarket parts and such that even the little econo boxes will suprise you.

I hate it, but I got to give credit where is due on performance, but taste and style is a whole different story.

[northcat_8]

0 to dead in four seconds is right! And if you keep it wide open for 60 seconds you will be two days younger when you get off of the damn thing! A buddy of mine had an old (well it wasn't old then) Kaw 1100 I think it was. Bored, stroked, jetted and slicker than snake shit! 0 to stained underpants for me! How I lived through that ride is one of the seven wonders of my life.

Acceleration is a blast, but deceleration is what kills you!

I've never actually ridden the 1100. I've ridden a CBR 900 RR that had been through the rose garden (dyno'd/jetted...the works). Real snappy...like riding a 125cc 2 stroke. I had it up to 165 or so in 4th gear and when I let off of it I sat up, you know I just relaxed and lifted my head above the windshield and the wind almost blew me off the bike. Scared me, I thought I was done for. I haven't ridden a bike since. I know me, while I am smart enough to know better, I lack the judgement and it was just a matter of time until they would have been scraping me up.

[MOVIEGEEK]

Funny VW commercials:
www.chevol.com/Default.aspx?tabid=36&EntryID=7

[hech54]

Funny VW commercials:
www.chevol.com/Default.aspx?tabid=36&EntryID=7

"Time to un-Pimp ze auto"

[rallynavvie]

Which Evo is making that amount of power? Even the MR here is only 300 lb-ft of torque. My Legacy is already faster than any lightly modified Evo over here. But then the reason I took the GT over the Evo was because I could also go fast in style, the Evo is more the boy-racer and the Legacy the grown-up performance sedan. Though I'd still love to have an Evo for track days, the GT just isn't what my old car was to the track.

[Cobra]

Evo FQ400. 8)

[ZAPPER]

0 to dead in four seconds is right! And if you keep it wide open for 60 seconds you will be two days younger when you get off of the damn thing! A buddy of mine had an old (well it wasn't old then) Kaw 1100 I think it was. Bored, stroked, jetted and slicker than snake shit! 0 to stained underpants for me! How I lived through that ride is one of the seven wonders of my life.

Acceleration is a blast, but deceleration is what kills you!

I've never actually ridden the 1100. I've ridden a CBR 900 RR that had been through the rose garden (dyno'd/jetted...the works). Real snappy...like riding a 125cc 2 stroke. I had it up to 165 or so in 4th gear and when I let off of it I sat up, you know I just relaxed and lifted my head above the windshield and the wind almost blew me off the bike. Scared me, I thought I was done for. I haven't ridden a bike since. I know me, while I am smart enough to know better, I lack the judgement and it was just a matter of time until they would have been scraping me up.

I confess that I don't know all that much about the details of the "little engines that could", but the two baddest bikes that I have been on are the above mentioned Kaw' 1100? and a Suzuki RM 400? dirt bike. Mechanized death on two wheels!

[lordsmurf]

All this car stuff, especially POS 4-cyl's, is retarded.

If you want to race, buy a ******* race car, and participate in track events. Get it over with. Don't mod out your $8,000 (new price) piece of shit and then dick around on public roadways. Quit half-assing it on your Taco Bell income.

It you want something "street legal" definitely go for a little power, especially if you do a lot of highway driving and don't want to be pushed around on the off/on ramps and by big rigs. Get a good 6-cyl or decent-HP DOHC 4-cyl and keep it in shape. The 8-cyl mostly just drink gas unless it's a full sized truck (those drink gas too, but at least a truck actually needs the power).

[ZAPPER]

All this car stuff, especially POS 4-cyl's, is retarded.

If you want to race, buy a ******* race car, and participate in track events. Get it over with. Don't mod out your $8,000 (new price) piece of shit and then dick around on public roadways. Quit half-assing it on your Taco Bell income.

It you want something "street legal" definitely go for a little power, especially if you do a lot of highway driving and don't want to be pushed around on the off/on ramps and by big rigs. Get a good 6-cyl or decent-HP DOHC 4-cyl and keep it in shape. The 8-cyl mostly just drink gas unless it's a full sized truck (those drink gas too, but at least a truck actually needs the power).

Did we miss our nap today?

I hate it too, but the fact is that they are taking new off of the lot cars that weigh as much as some of my old spare tires and getting some really good speed out of them.

Do they drive like crazy? Yes. But so did the youth of every auto generation before us.

Do they use too much bass on their sound system? Yes. But I had parent annoying rock and roll pouring out of my cars too.

Does the neon attract attention? Yes. But so did flames and deck stripes of yesteryear.


Step aside and let the kids try to kill themselves, It didn't kill us.

[smearbrick1]

Across the the river from the town I live in, RT 147 runs north and south along the Susquehanna river. The road is dead straight for miles in some places. Apparently it is all the rage to take on the State Police on some of those stretches. My father spoke with one of the cops on patrol (my father works for transportation) and the cop told him that clocked a guy in an Eclipse doing about 95 on 147. When the cop pulled out to pursue, apparently the guy flipped the nitrous switch and disappeared before the cop knew what was going on or could get his license number.

[Cobra]

lordsmurf:

Yes, there are some idiots around who show off. Yes, there are a lot of cheap, low-power four-cylinder engines pretending to be much bigger with loud exhausts. However, THAT ISN'T EVERYONE! :P

All that is being said is that four cylinder engines can be extremely potent, and not to underestimate them. You'll never get my 1.5l Almera (16v DOHC, multi-point injection) to develop enough power to race, no matter how many mods you put on.

But look at the Evo FQ400. That's how powerful four cylinder engines can be. Look at the Lotus Exige - another four cylinder engine, one of the quickest cars around a track.

Sometimes, engineering and refinement beats bigger engines with more cylinders.

(not to say that I wouldn't love a Mustang, though!)

[Conquest10]

I hate these guys that do this. Here it seems to be limited to the Poles. I thought it was bad when I was in high school. Boy, was I wrong. After Fast & the Furious, its gotten worse. They take over Archer Avenue in their Honda Civics on the Friday and Saturday nights/mornings. I don't know why the police don't do anything. A couple of months ago, some one ran over and killed Cowboy Ray (a radio personality) a few blocks from my house right on Archer. Hopefully they start cracking down on this shit.

I can hear them right now driving in front of my house reving their engines. WTF!

[Cobra]

I have to agree with you on that one. The Fast & The Furious was, aside from a crap film, a bad influence on the boy racers. There's no excuse for the behaviour, and some of the things they do to their cars but most of all, what they'll do to other people.

[smearbrick1]

I know this topic is pretty much dead, but I just wanted to add one more comment.

I've been noticing a huge climate shift in automotive forums lately. It seems that every automotive these days is less about gearhead related information and more about appearances and bolt on "mods". It seems that "experts" on these forums are only considered such because the happen to know the offset of the factory wheel, or what the recommended tire pressure is. Places like www.xterraownersclub.com and www.mazda6club.com are all polluted with members who know nothing technical about their cars and are more worried about amp installs and body kits. Meanwhile, you check out a place like www.forums.probetalk.com and they have people on there who could tell you more about the Mazda 2.5l V6 than Mazda!

It's just a bit disheartening to see the posters talk about how they paid someone else to change their oil, or their brakes, or - God forbid - the air filter. The other day on Mazda6club, the topic of discussion was how much you should expect to pay to have Mazdaspeed springs installed.

What is the automotive enthusiast world coming to? What happened to installing your own springs? By the time I was 21, I had a garage full of tools (I didn't have a garage to put them in, but I still had this many tools), and I did my first engine swap at 22. Granted, this is no great feat, but I didn't really get into cars until I was about that age.

[MackemX]

what you say is right smearbrick1 and I think the same can be said about DVD backups etc in a slightly different way. Many programs now take away the skill required a few years ago so you don't have as many people posting the technical stuff anymore. In fact it's probably not just DVD stuff either

[smearbrick1]

what you say is right smearbrick1 and I think the same can be said about DVD backups etc in a slightly different way. Many programs now take away the skill required a few years ago so you don't have as many people posting the technical stuff anymore. In fact it's probably not just DVD stuff either

Makes you almost want to say "remember when".

My God! I'm turning into my father.

[MackemX]

what you say is right smearbrick1 and I think the same can be said about DVD backups etc in a slightly different way. Many programs now take away the skill required a few years ago so you don't have as many people posting the technical stuff anymore. In fact it's probably not just DVD stuff either

Makes you almost want to say "remember when".

My God! I'm turning into my father.

yeah, we are getting on a bit when we start reminiscing about the old days

[SquirrelDip]

Lotus Exige:




Currently it has to be one of the best sports cars available.

[Lucifers_Ghost]

I will take a classic muscle car over any of the newer "rice burner" labelled cars. Maybe its just because I am old (32), but nothing beats the look of a '69 Camaro SS or a Stingray 'vette. Nothing. NO amount of mods can make me look at a Civic and get a hard on.

You show me a well done SS and Im there.

I got a '79 Camaro with a 350. Nothing really done to it all that much. Kept in really good shape. I love it. Yeah, I lose to the occasional smartass with a 4 banger, but at the end of the day, I would take my car through thick and thin.

It all comes down to preference. Most of these 17 year old kids have never even sat in a vette and couldnt possibly understand the difference in the two worlds ( RWD muscle vs FWD tuning).

my two cents.