is it illegal to buy a back-up copy

[slimpickins]

hi, i am only interested in this to settle an argumeent, im not really botherd if its right or wrong cos ive never involved myself wih buying or selling back-up copies

anyway, my friend said that in the uk ur legally aloud to have a back-up copy of any digital media u own, we both agreed, but he said that because of this ur also aloud to buy a back-up copy of anything u own, i said ur not aloud to but he said aslong as u own it then u can buy a back-up copy

the only example i can think of is if u owned a dvd then u could buy a back-up copy of this dvd, a little pointless cos u could just copy it urself


anyway, can someone deicide who wins so he can check this site and buy me my free lunch

[waheed]

Technically, it may not even be legal to make a back up copy (its a grey area), a debatable issue, but IMO, I would say its definitely illegal to buy back up copies.

Warning screens on dvds are a good example, that state you cannot make copies of dvds, let alone sell them.

[ROF]

Sales of backups are illegal. In some places you are allowed to share your backups but you are not allowed to profit from such sharing.

[slimpickins]

true, but then again, in the uk its not even illegal to buy cinema dvd or a doggy dvd,
if thats not illegal i guess it wouldnt be illegal to buy a back-up copy

[thecoalman]

Who you going to purchase it from? For them to make a copy it would a be a illegal copy since they are profiting from someone else's work therefore you would be buying stolen goods... Not a lawyer but that's what I would think the case would be.

On a side note there were a few companies over here that would take a video you owned, you had to give them the disc or tape itself. they would then edit out the vilolence, language and nudity to make it more suitable for younger audiences. I know they ran into legal trouble.

[e404pnf]

anyway, my friend said that in the uk ur legally aloud to have a back-up copy of any digital media u own...

I'm afraid that you and your friends argument falls down here. In the UK we have some of the strictest copyright legislation and we do not have the right to back up CD/DVD etc etc. That said, to the best of my knowledge, there has yet to be a prosecution for personal back ups (what would be compared to "fair use" in the US). So in theory at least, we could prosecuted for copying an audio CD to tape to play in the car, or ripping to ipod. The same applies for DVDs. We have a very pragmatic police force though, so not a problem in reality.

On top of this it's also illegal to circumvent copyright protection...and so NO, you can't legally buy a back up of a DVD you own in the UK.

EDIT: Note to self...must learn to type quicker!

[e404pnf]

true, but then again, in the uk its not even illegal to buy cinema dvd or a doggy dvd,
if thats not illegal i guess it wouldnt be illegal to buy a back-up copy

Sorry but whoever is providing you with advice on UK copyright law is wrong. Totally illegal!

[adam]

Yeah UK Copyright Law is one of the most restrictive in the world, much moreso than even the US which most people probably think of as being the big bad one. The irony in the UK is that you have maybe the least amount of copying rights yet you pay some of the highest taxes on recordable media to compensate for illegal copying. Double whammy.

There are very few countries that allow general backup rights. Pretty much all countries go through each type of work (musical, audio/visual, literary, etc...) and spell out what rights you have for each. Most countries allow some form of backing up for musical works, yes even in the UK, but almost none allow backup rights for audio/visual works such as DVDs.

[slimpickins]

hi
i dont know if all of this applies, i said its illegal to buy back-up copies, my friend said since ur allowed to make a back-up copy then i guesss ur allowed to buyone, it doesnt really matter if he is right cos i just wont bring it up again

but about cinema dvd's and doggy dvd's, its definatlly not illegal to BUY them, only sell them

[adam]

Even when a partical backup is allowed under a country's law, that law almost always (probably always) expressly denies the right sell that backup. Where allowed, backups are only intended to be used for personal use. If you could sell backups it would defeat the entire purpose of copyright law. Your friend is wrong.

And sorry but you are also wrong about buying bootleg DVDs. In most countries it is still a copyright infringement to buy bootleg DVDs whether you know they are legitimate or not. Remember, even though copyright law can impose criminal sanctions, it is civil law which means that your actions don't have to be intentional and they don't have to be overt. If you contribute to an infringement, even completely unwittingly, you can be held liable for the amount that you contributed.

[KBeee]

...The irony in the UK is that you have maybe the least amount of copying rights yet you pay some of the highest taxes on recordable media to compensate for illegal copying. Double whammy...

Not sure where you got this from, but there is no tax on recordable media in the UK. Maybe you're thinking of Canada or some mainland European country?

[waheed]

Not sure where you got this from, but there is no tax on recordable media in the UK. Maybe you're thinking of Canada or some mainland European country?

You pay TAX on almost everthing in the UK. VAT is also tax, payable at the rate of 17.5%

[Des]

hi
i dont know if all of this applies, i said its illegal to buy back-up copies, my friend said since ur allowed to make a back-up copy then i guesss ur allowed to buyone, it doesnt really matter if he is right cos i just wont bring it up again

In the United States it is not illegal to buy 'backed up' material but but it is defintely illegal to sell it.

Some years ago a guy I used to buy bootleg and copied concerts from was caught by the FBI (they got him on mail fraud or illegal trafficing since he used the US Postal system to ship his tapes). This guy kept a list of his customer's and their purchases, so guess what? The FBI went contacting people on the list. I told them that I only ever purchased from him (which is true), then I asked "Am I in any trouble?" I was told quite definatley that I was not since it's not illegal to buy, only to sell.

--dES

[adam]

In the United States it is not illegal to buy 'backed up' material but but it is defintely illegal to sell it.

The FBI told [me] quite definatley that I was not [in trouble] since it's not illegal to buy, only to sell.

The FBI investigates CRIMINAL Copyright infringement only. What that FBI guy told you was that buying bootleg goods, at least in your type of situation, is not a crime. But it can indeed still be a copyright infringement in the US under a theory of contributory copyright infringement if you knew the goods were illegitimate.

This is the standard for contributory copyright infringement
"One who, with knowledge of infringing activity, induces, causes or materially contributes to infringing conduct of another may be held liable as contributory infringer."

Buying illegitimate goods, with knowledge that they are illegitimate, is considered inducement of that sale. If you were sued for this you would be hearing from the copyright holder, not the FBI.

[adam]

Not sure where you got this from, but there is no tax on recordable media in the UK. Maybe you're thinking of Canada or some mainland European country?

Sorry, my mistake. Yeah I was thinking of the rest of Europe. I thought they all followed that portion of the EU Copyright Directive but the UK didn't adopt that one.

[Bjs]

Under the law as it stand's , the answer is NO .

The law allow's for "YOU" to have or to generate a single copy while in the posession of the original media .

The purchase from any source , even when you own the original is in violation of the law .

The only place you can legally purchase a backup is from the company which originally released it .

[handyguy]

Thing is, there are plenty of backups on Ebay for sale that keep getting sold. I found them under 50 dvds or 100 dvds. Im talking about sellers that keep doing it & keep their accounts. Must be something up with that. Maybe its the country they are sold from?

[adam]

Its ebay being lazy. If you report the auction sometimes they get removed. They used to be very dilligent about removing such auctions and banning the seller, but now I think they are too big and too busy to care.

[ROF]

You only need to report this seller. I have twice in the last six months purchased counterfeit items from Ebay. Both sellers are no longer in business. One of them was a tech business in Florida, another in New Jersey.

Reports to Ebay removed them from auctions.
Reports to local jurisdictions removed them from doing business.

[moviebuff2]

he said aslong as u own it then u can buy a back-up copy

Please forgive in advance my stupid question. :P

Why would someone BUY a back-up copy of something he/she has already owned?

[Cobra]

Maybe if they don't own a DVD burner themselves or don't know how to make a backup copy.

I still find people who have DVD writers and are stunned when I tell them that they can make copies of their DVDs to give to their kids (who wants to fork out £15 - £20 for a DVD every time your kid leaves it kicking about on their bedroom floor?)

[ROF]

I still find people who have DVD writers and are stunned when I tell them that they can make copies of their DVDs to give to their kids (who wants to fork out £15 - £20 for a DVD every time your kid leaves it kicking about on their bedroom floor?)

Certainly not me. I've taught my children to respect their toys and if they don't they aren't automatically granted a new one. They kick it around or fling it like a frisbee and ruin it well they either have to save for a new one or wait until a time when someone will give them another. As they've learned it maybe almost a year or more before a replacement shows up. They've learned respect for theirs and others property by not being given backups.

[moviebuff2]

Maybe if they don't own a DVD burner themselves or don't know how to make a backup copy.

Hm...an Emprex double-layer, dual-format, internal DVD burner sells for $40 (and occasionally $30), no rebate required. Nero OEM is also included. A blank 4X DVD-R costs 5 cents, approximately.

A back-up copy probably costs $5 each.

Interesting Econ 101, indeed!

[ROF]

Maybe if they don't own a DVD burner themselves or don't know how to make a backup copy.

Hm...an Emprex double-layer, dual-format, internal DVD burner sells for $40 (and occasionally $30), no rebate required. Nero OEM is also included. A blank 4X DVD-R costs 5 cents, approximately.

A back-up copy probably costs $5 each.

Interesting Econ 101, indeed!

Some people live paycheck to paycheck or they are on a fixed income. That's Econ 101!

[Cobra]

Maybe if they don't own a DVD burner themselves or don't know how to make a backup copy.

Hm...an Emprex double-layer, dual-format, internal DVD burner sells for $40 (and occasionally $30), no rebate required. Nero OEM is also included. A blank 4X DVD-R costs 5 cents, approximately.

A back-up copy probably costs $5 each.

Interesting Econ 101, indeed!

Some people take their car into a dealer to get serviced, and pay through the nose for it. Same thing. They don't know how to get the job done themselves, and don't mind paying someone else a premium to get it done right.

[slimpickins]

exactly, at work today the argument kind of didnt matter cos it started on friday and by monday it was a non-issue, anyway i havnt seen any fake stuff on ebay, ive seen foreign imports and people selling tv rips but not a back-up of the dvd

i think back-ups are the best, if have afew teenagers and cos i have a huge collection they really watch alot of dvd's, if i let them borrow the originals then they could easily be scratched and ruined and ive got to many to keep track, with back-ups all i need to know is if it smissung or if its scratched, i just go get the original and make a new back-up

they must have watched scarface 40 times in the past 3 years and ive re-backed it up atleast 6 times and if that was the origianl id have either payed over 70 pounds to keep replacing it, or id be really fussy about letting them watch stuff, and then there's no point in having the collection

anyway, i see if someone owns the dvd then i could see them buyiong a back-up copy if it looked nice and they didnt know how to do it htemselves, or if someone didnt own the dvd they would buy it on the cheap

[moviebuff2]

From burning a DVD copy to having a car fixed...that's stretching a little too much, don't you think?

Anyway, people do crazy things everyday like driving a long distance to save 5 cents/gallon on the fuel for their 10-gallon tank (a total savings of 50 cents).