BIG VHS conversion to MPEG

[totus]

OK, so what I have is 6 4-hour VHS tapes with all the great family moments of our lives. Not very practicle because we can never find what we are looking for.

So, what I would like is to get it all into one file on hard disc, and add lots of bookmarks, maybe with a nice menu system.

The problem is how to get from there to here. Is it possible?

I had one tape coverted and ended up with 4 DVDs. That means we would need 20-30 DVDs to do the lot - and that defeats the purpose of the whole exercise. I transferred the one DVD file on to hard disc, just to see what happens, but it changes into a number of interlinked files I can't do anything with.

I don't need to do everything myself - I wouldn't know how. I'm quite happy for a video store to do a conversion - but to what? Once I get the one big file, I can use Quick Video Converter to join, and ALShow to place the bookmarks. BUT HOW DO I GET ONE BIG (100 Gb)FILE? Any suggestions, anyone?

[ozymango]

Wow ... where to begin ... ...

For starters, because these are (I'm assuming) precious family memories, first I would do exactly what you did so far -- transfer all tapes to DVD, at the quality it seems you're getting now (1 hour of video per disc). These become your "backups" and from here, you can take that video, transfer it to your computer, and then ...

It gets complicated because I read you as having two slightly opposing goals -- precious footage and small disc space. You can have relatively smaller disc space by taking that high bitrate mpeg2 files (from the DVDs) and then compressing it a bit more (transcoding) to 2 or even 3 hours per disc ... but it may or may look acceptable to you at that point. And even if you managed to squeeze 4 hours per disc (at a max), you're still looking at 6 discs (1 for each 4-hour tape). And that's a very big if, as I wouldn't put more than a couple of hours of video on one DVD.

Even then, you still have to decide on menus and chapters for each disc ... and some record sheet with each disc's chapter contents referenced so you can find it later, easily ...

Anyway, this is a lot of work. : But for starters, I'd have all the tapes copied to DVD at the best quality settings, for your master mpeg files for later editing/conversion, and then decide how much money, time, and effort you feel like putting into this, and we can help more.

EDIT: A quick answer to your specif question, "How do you get all this footage into one big file." The answer is you just take all the VOB (mpeg) files from the discs and string 'em end to end, and you'll end up with one honking huge mpeg2 file. But what good would that be? If you intend this to be viewed only on a computer hard drive, you may be able to do some kind of Xvid/mp4 conversion that would shrink these files enormously ... but I've no idea how you'd put an kind of chapter indexing system in there. Plus I shudder to think of trying to search in a 20-hour length video.

[LloydAZ]

OK, so what I have is 6 4-hour VHS tapes with all the great family moments of our lives. Not very practicle because we can never find what we are looking for.

Quick and easy:

Why not pick up a DVD recorder, copy each tape to a DVD-RW disc in 4 hour mode (Make sure you use Video Mode, not VR Mode). Rip the VOB's onto your hard drive, and reauthor (don't reencode) them with something like DVD-Lab.

You'll still have 6 DVD's, but you could make a chapter list for each disc in a simple spreadsheet that you could easily look up and know which disc and which chapter to look in.

If you want better quality, then record them at 2 hour mode which will give you 12 DVD's.

This would be a lot easier than one humongous MPG file with 24 hours of video in it.

Think of it as an encylopedia. You don't have everything in one single book, it's spread out over at least 26 volumes.

[ZippyP.]

I would suggest similar to LloydAZ.

Use a DVD recorder in 2 hour mode so you get 12 disks. Copy each onto your hard drive, DVDDecrypter is good for that. Re-author each disk individually or if you are just keeping them on your hard drive then you can join them together during the authoring process. You can join as many as you like but keep in mind that joining will make them too big to burn on a disk, which is of no concern if you don't need that. You can have a main track menu and each track can have a chapter menu. I'd use TDA which allows you to do some basic editing as well.

[whitejremiah]

yea, as was mentioned above, although i'd recommend using dual layer discs for the final output at least, that way you CAN actually get it onto six discs and have it look REASONABLY viewable.....also, i'd personally recommend dvd lab pro instead of TDA.....that of course, is dependant on how much time and effort you want to put into it, as dvd lab pro has a bit higher of a learning curve than TDA does.....

[totus]

First of all, I 've got to say I really appreciate all the responses. Trouble is I can barely cope with what you're saying. When is say newbie, I mean NEWBIE!!! Bluntly put, I hardly know how to switch on the VCR. Having said that there must be millions of people out there like me, with lots of VHS tapes that never get looked at because it just isn't practicle.

OK, so now the questions:

1) Everybody is still talking about DVD. Is there no alternative? There are inexpensive 100 Gb disk drives now available - why can't they be the alternative ? And why should speed be a problem? The whole point of having bookmarks is to have direct access to anywhere on the disk - this is no longer a serial file like the VHS.

2)As I said, I do not have the skills to use most of the tools on the market (I know, I've tried). I just want to get my VHS converted outside but I need to know what it should be converted to. Is there something I should ask for other than DVD-Video?

3)How can I transfer the DVD video files to the hard disk in order to be able to join them?

4) What is the simplest tool I can use to join them? I don't need to do fancy editing.

Thanks for your patience everyone. Remember, there millions of NEWBIE newbies like me out there. And if the answer is that the market and the technology just isn't ready for people like me - just say so! And of course I'll go beserk - but that's ok.

[mattso]

Wait for Blu-Ray or HDD. Leave it on VHS for now.

What exactly are you after? Something to pass around to family members? A hard-drive ain't that "practicle" really, is it? Perhaps dual-layer DVD is better.

If you just wanna "archive" it all, get a huge hard drive & dump it all on it as "avi". You can edit it together into one big stream (with, say, VirtualDub).

If you want "bookmarks", you really need a portable format like DVD that can contain "chapter marks".

Or, just wait a year or 2 for Blu-Ray or HDD. Or whatever else format awaits us.

[FulciLives]

Buy a DVD recorder with a built-in Hard Drive. One of the better models out there is the one made by Pioneer. They have a few different models the cheapest being the 531 (hard to find now) or the 533 and 633 (both easier to find).

A DVD recorder makes it very easy to convert VHS to DVD format. The models with the built-in HDD make it easy to edit and then place chapter points EXACTLY where you want them.

So basically you have one machine that works well and is fairly easy-to-use ... this will be much easier than any computer based solution for those that consider themselves a "die-hard" newbie.

However I would like to point out that for good quality you should only use the 2 hour mode ... this will require a lot of DVD discs but discs are cheap now ... you can often find 50 packs of DVD-R discs on sale for as little as $15.00

Also with only 2 hours per disc it should be easy (with chapter markers that you place) to find what you want. You can buy DVD cases that are standard size but fit 2 discs per case. You can then make your own slip-case cover and with only 2 discs per cover that gives you plently of room to list the chapters like:

DISC 1 - CHAPTER 1 = JOHN'S 10TH BIRTHDAY NOV. 12, 1984
DISC 1 - CHAPTER 2 = CHRISTMAS 1984
DISC 1 - CHAPTER 3 = MOM'S 40TH BIRTHDAY FEB. 3, 1985

and so on.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[LOWTECH]

I have done exactly what you require with my VHS tapes....

I transfered each tape via firewire through my camera pass through, onto my hard drive..... each hour needed 13gb of hard drive space when saved as an AVI ..... I transfered/saved about 1 hour at a time ..... I then rendered the hour in VEGAS as a dvd which gave me a new file of about 4gb ( not a VOB), after checking the rendered DVD file, I then deleted the 13gb AVI file regaining hard drive space on my 120gb hard drive, I did the same for the next 1 hour of VHS transfer and so on...repeating this proccess till finished...

When finished or on completing each 4 hours, burn each hour in turn to a dvd disc as a DATA file , delete from hard drive (if space is needed) after checking the dvd plays OK on your computer. I continued this proccess untill I completed my task, in my case 40 I hour dvd data discs. (good quality)

The tapes tranfered to these Discs become my negatives so to speak to work from.... I then made a new file on my hard drive and transfered each data disc as needed and edited in VEGAS and rerendered each time I reached 90 mins as a new disc, then authored and burnt with chapters as required. So I now have DVDs to watch and enjoy in my DVD player and ALSO a back up of all the original tapes on discs, as data discs as well ... to keep and to reuse if needed...........It took time but I have quality MEMORIES that our family can look back on and enjoy ... extra copies of all discs (data or dvd) are a so simple make as well.......I have even printed off photo`s from the discs as well .... good luck.

[totus]

Great! Looks like there's two possible options that may be right for me:

1) The DVD Recorder with HD (thanks FulciLives!).
Question: Can you join files on the HD? I couldn't find anything on that in the specs.

2) DVDDecryptor etc for getting DVD files onto the PC HD (thanks ZippyP!).
Question: DVDDecryptor obviously decrypts. But surely my home video DVDs that were converted from my VHS tapes are not encrypted. So what else will it do to my files? In other words, apart from decrypting, what does it do that a straightforward file transfer in Windows doesn't do?

[jagabo]

2) DVDDecryptor etc for getting DVD files onto the PC HD (thanks ZippyP!).
Question: DVDDecryptor obviously decrypts. But surely my home video DVDs that were converted from my VHS tapes are not encrypted. So what else will it do to my files? In other words, apart from decrypting, what does it do that a straightforward file transfer in Windows doesn't do?

It will join the individual 1GB VOB files into one big VOB file.

[ZippyP.]

How can I transfer the DVD video files to the hard disk in order to be able to join them?

DVDDecrypter will "rip" the video to your hard drive, it's much faster than just copying.

What is the simplest tool I can use to join them? I don't need to do fancy editing.

TDA like I suggested. "Author" a really big DVD on your hard drive with track and chapter menus. Does simple edits as well. Free 30 day trial.

[FulciLives]

When using a stand alone DVD recorder with a built-in HDD you cannot "join clips" BUT when you go to your authoring stage you can put multiple clips on the DVD ... each clip will be a chapter if you will but there will be a slight pause between each clip when playing it straight through.

Now if you record say an entire tape straight through then you will have one long clip that you can edit portions out of but still leave the whole as one big clip or you have the option to divide it down into smaller clips then add them at the authoring stage. What you cannot do is take multiple clips and "join" them except to put them all on the same DVD at the authoring stage. Hope that is clear.

Remember though that you can always RIP the DVD you burn on the stand alone to your computer and then there you have full ability to edit and join and cut and re-author a brand new DVD using computer software and your computer DVD burner. If you do that then you can use a DVD-RW on the stand alone so that once you RIP it to the computer you can ERASE the DVD-RW then use it over again.

Either way it's still best to work in "chunks" of 2 hours or less.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[totus]

Seems I'm down to two options for my home videos:

1) I will attempt to use DVD Decrypter to rip the DVDs, but I need help with the settings. I want to create one big VOB file for all and then try to convert to both MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 for subsequent bookmarking. There will be about 5 VOB files from each of the 25 DVDs. I suppose I first need to create one VOB for each of the DVDs, and then somehow combine the 25 big VOBs into a mega-VOB. Please suggest settings (for 'acceptable' quality, minimum disk space). I have no idea what all those modes mean.

2) Another idea! No big humungous VOB file. Do a spreadsheet with all the DVD names, with hyperlinks to the DVD VIDEO_TS folders on the HD. Just click a name, and PowerDVD opens the appropriate VIDEO_TS. Is this possible?

I fell I'm making headway, but oh what a long way to go!

[lordsmurf]

Buy a good DVD recorder too.
- Philips and Panasonic are dogcrap quality. Avoid.
- JVC and Pioneer are the quality machines. Buy one of these.

[jagabo]

I want to create one big VOB file for all and then try to convert to both MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 for subsequent bookmarking.

How do you plan to bookmark the file?

[totus]

Hi Jagabo! In answer to your question, once I get my mega-VOB file, I'll try bookmarking it with Alshow from Altools. This is a beta product which I tried on an MPEG-1 movie I downloaded and it worked perfectly.

[jagabo]

Hi Jagabo! In answer to your question, once I get my mega-VOB file, I'll try bookmarking it with Alshow from Altools. This is a beta product which I tried on an MPEG-1 movie I downloaded and it worked perfectly.

Sounds like that will work. I guess you'll be tied to their player then?

A 100 GB VOB or MPEG files will be unwieldy to work with though. And remember you'll need 200 GB of free disk space to create it, 100 GB for the individual source files, and 100 MB for the final file while it's being built.

[totus]

Trouble is, Jacabo, I won't be able to do anything until someone advises me on the DVD Decrypter settings. I've read the guide, but it doesn't mean too much too me. IFO Mode or File Mode? Anything else?

[jagabo]

File mode copies individual files. A movie on a DVD normally spans several ~1 GB VOB files.

IFO mode lets you copy logical entities (the movie, an episode, whatever) as one (or more -- you still have the option of limiting the file size) VOB file.

[pfh]

First of all, I 've got to say I really appreciate all the responses. Trouble is I can barely cope with what you're saying. When is say newbie, I mean NEWBIE!!! Bluntly put, I hardly know how to switch on the VCR. Having said that there must be millions of people out there like me, with lots of VHS tapes that never get looked at because it just isn't practicle.

OK, so now the questions:

1) Everybody is still talking about DVD. Is there no alternative? There are inexpensive 100 Gb disk drives now available - why can't they be the alternative ? And why should speed be a problem? The whole point of having bookmarks is to have direct access to anywhere on the disk - this is no longer a serial file like the VHS.

2.

Yes, large HDD's are relatively cheap and an alternative but can and do suffer from data corruption and/or just die. They are really just semi permanent storage mediums.
What ever direction you choose to go, with this excellent advice- the dvd's and of course the old tapes will be your hardcopy backups. These backups would at some point in time need backed up too but give you a better insurance than HDD.

[whitejremiah]

that and a single dvd disc is a heck of a lot more portable than a harddrive (not saying that an external hdd or somthing of that sort isnt portable, im just saying it's easier to carry around a single disc) also there's the whole idea that its a lot easier to access the video and it can be played on a LOT more devices, not just a pc....

[ZippyP.]

DVDDecrypter in file mode to rip, under Tools>settings click the File Mode tab and set file splitting to "none". This will rip a DVD into one VOB. If you want to join more than one DVD you can "author" them together using something like TDA.

[Nelson37]

Quality and minimum file size are opposite concepts. You can have one or the other, but not both. Personally I would opt for max quality.

MPG-1 is NOT repeat NOT what you want. No interlacing, this would destroy exactly half of the available detail in the video. MPG-2 is better.

As has been stated, you should copy your initial MPG transfers to multiple DVDs. Do NOT rely on a hard drive copy as your only copy.

Best option at this time would probably be a heavily edited DVD "highlight" version. SAVE THOSE ORIGINALS!!!!! In a year or two, you will be able to put all of it on one or two Blu-RAy disks, or something similar. 50 years from now, I guarantee you from personal experience that what you think is trivial and meaningless today will be the most interesting parts to your grandchildren.

[totus]

What I understand you're saying, ZippyP, is that:
- the only DVD Decryptter settings I need to concern myself with are the mode (FILE not IFO)
- no splitting

Also, I assume my next step, after ripping each DVD into its own separate folder, is to join all the VOBs together with any basic cut/join utility?

Am I right?

[ZippyP.]

Also, I assume my next step, after ripping each DVD into its own separate folder, is to join all the VOBs together with any basic cut/join utility?

If you want to get one really biiiig VOB, then yes.

[totus]

Step by painful step, I seem to be getting there. I've got my big VOB file, and I've converted it to MPEG-2 with TMPGEnc using the Merge and Cut toll. HOWEVER, nice viseo but no sound!!! Is this a matter of having the right settings? Any suggestions?

[jagabo]

Is your audio AC3? TMPGEnc can't handle AC3 audio.

[totus]

Now I am in deep water! I think AC3 is a codec, and I think I have it (I searched for AC3*.* and got an AC3 something). But I don't know if that means 'my audio is AC3'.

Is there another codec I should have? If yes, where can I get it, and how can I ensure that TMPGEnc uses it instead of the AC3 one?

[jagabo]

TMPGEnc's Merge and Cut tool cannot handle AC3 audio at all. Any AC3 audio is simply dumped when you use that tool. I believe their MPEG Media Editor may be able to work with AC3 audio.