DVD encoding issue

[vanderbog]

Hi guys,
I am making a DVD with a home video from my camcorder.
When encoding to Mpeg2, before authoring, some scenes are blury because the camera moves from one point to another. The avi downloaded from the camera looks ok in those areas, no bluring, just sharp.
I used Mainconcept and Canopus and both do the same in those scenes.
Is there some setting or trick that I need to know in order to have a sharp Mpeg2 looking like the original avi ? Or maybe there is a flawless encoder that I might use ?
Any help might be a good help for me.
Thanks.

[mats.hogberg]

Mpeg will always look worse than the source. It's the way mpg works. Only solution is to use a higher CBR bitrate, or use multipass high VBR (even better) and pray that the encoder allocates all bitrate it can to the trouble scenes.

/Mats

[gadgetguy]

Both of those are popular encoders so I would guess there is a user problem. From the brief description it sounds like a blended de-interlacing is going on during the encode. In general if your source is interlaced, then you want to encode as interlaced, maintaining the proper field order. Give us more information about the process you follow to encode, including any and all software and settings you use/change.

[guns1inger]

There is also a lot of difference between the progressive display your PC provides, and the normal CRT TV image. Most CRT TVs will show a softer image.

[Nelson37]

Have no information whatsoever on your process used.

Have no information whatsoever on your hardware.

Have no information whatsoever on how to help you.

[vanderbog]

Thanks to all of you guys.
OK, looks like I have to give a little more info here:
-hardware: AMD64 2.4Ghz, 512Mb RAM, 128M video decent card, the machine is ok, don't think it's an issue.
-software: Canopus (but tried Mainconcept and CCE with the same result). I tried CBR and 2pass VBR but looks the very same.
-I am ashame of this but do not know much about interlacing, maybe this is what I am missing. If any of you have a minute to tell me a few words about this I would very much appreciate. When it comes to set something up about interlacing, I leave it what is default.
-If there is some setting to tell the software to alocate more bitrate to the scenes with more movement, please let me know what I obviously don't know.
Thanks again guys for trying to help.

[mats.hogberg]

When setting up VBR, did you make sure to give the encoder lots of play room - low min bitrate (2000) , max bitrate @ max allowed DVD bitrate avg @ like 6-7000?

/Mats

[FulciLives]

Try a CBR of 8000kbps and if possible convert the audio to AC-3 format (a freeware tool for that would be ffmpeggui which seems to work OK).

The alternative would be a CBR of 7500kbps with LPCM WAV audio.

That's about as good as it is gonna get.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[ktnwin]

The reason you MPEG looks blurry (due to camera moving around) is the field order you selected for encoding AVI to MPEG.
Change the field order and re-encode again, the new MPEG file should look good.
This is also my very first mistake when I start encoding to MPEG-2.

[gadgetguy]

Here is an article on De-interlacing which does a pretty good job of explaining how interlacing works.
http://www.100fps.com/

[Nelson37]

I will assume the video from the camera gets to the PC thru firewire, as opposed to just rubbing the two together.

Do NOT de-interlace, leave the video interlaced. Motion search set to high.

Assuming higher bitrate or CBR does not solve the problem, change the field order. There will only be two choices.

Next thing is to get a tripod and use it. This will minimize these types of issues if not eliminate them altogether.

[gadgetguy]

Yes, DO NOT de-interlace. I didn't mean to suggest that you should de-interlace. I only posted that link because it does a pretty good job of explaining interlace.

[vanderbog]

Thanks for the fast replies guys.
I just started to run another convertion with the fields changed and allowing a bigger upper limit for VBR to go.
Here's a snapshot with all the settings from Canopus. They are a few things that I have no clue what they are for. For example: "Intra DC presition" and "Profile/lLevel"

[vanderbog]

OK, it does the same thing with 9000 upper limit and 3000 lower, plus the fields reversed.
Any other ides before I give up and leave it as it is ?

[FulciLives]

OK, it does the same thing with 9000 upper limit and 3000 lower, plus the fields reversed.
Any other ides before I give up and leave it as it is ?

What was your AVERAGE ... need to know that as well as MIN and MAX.

Also have your tried a CBR of 8000kbps for the video? That's as good as it can be although that will limit you to about 60 minutes per DVD-R disc.

DV AVI is bottom field first. Almost all other video is top field first. Make sure the encoder is set for bottom field first.

Sometimes ... even with high bitrates (like 8000kbps CBR) ... you may still notice MPEG compression artifacts on scenes where the camera is moving quickly be it a quick pan or very shaky hand-held work etc. also it depends on how much light there was as a "grainy" night time scene without "enough" light will be more grainy than a bright daytime shot and the grain "eats up" the bitrate so when the camera moves you get MPEG artifacts.

That's why it is best to use a tripod when possible and aviod quick camera movements (unless they are VERY short thus minimizing the viewer picking up the artifacts). Make sure there is enough light etc.

One thing you might want to try is to use a video "noise" filter. This will "smooth" the video out a bit which will result in a loss of detail but it will also minimize MPEG artifacts and if the filter is applied even "lightly" it can help alot to minimize MPEG artifacts while the loss of detail will be little. Only problem with filters is it is easy to "over do it" and loose a lot of detail if you aren't carefull.

Some encoders have a filter like that built-in such as TMPGEnc Plus. There are also filters for VirtualDub and AviSyth.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[vanderbog]

Thanks for the elaborate reply John !
Well, the average was approx. 5500, min 3000, max 9000.
I would avoit playing with the filters because this is a home video and don't want to lose anything.
Tripod is very unconfortable. This scene was recorded in a mall's playground and couldn't put the camera on a tripod like I would do when recording a panoramic view at the Grand Canion. But the camera has that "anti-shaking" feature and is ok, plus, I really record very steady. The scene I'm talking about, I was moving the camera to catch the environment, not only the subject, but as you said, it might be the light a little too low, indeed.
I didn't try CBR with 8000 because I want to fit the 1.5hrs on a DVD without splitting and all that.

[Nilfennasion]

Another option you might wish to consider as a last resort is using a DVD+R DL to store the video. This way, you will get 7.9 gigabytes of space to fit your video into, which generally allows a higher bitrate than a 4.35 gigabyte disc, which might translate into a better-looking picture.