Problems using TMPGEnc to convert from PAL to NTSC

[JohnnyWadd]

Hey, guys. I'm having trouble converting a DVD from PAL to NTSC and I was wondering if you could help. I was recently in Australia, and I purchased a copy of The Man Who Sued God while I was there, which isn't available in the States. Obviously, I can watch it over here without copying a converted version over to a DVD-R disc, as it's PAL format from Region 4. I've got limited experience with this type of conversion, but am very familiar with DVD back-up using DVD Decrypter, DVD Shrink, DVD2ONE, DVD2AVI, DVD Maestro, and RecordNow Max.

I ripped the movie files using DVD Decrypter and used DVD2AVI to seperate the audio and video. I used an AVISynth Script that I got from a guy who calls himself Xesdeeni2001 (I'm sure that some of you here know who that is) at the following link:

http://www.geocities.com/xesdeeni2001/StandardsConversion/index.html

I followed his instructions (VI. PAL (Video) DVD (25i Fps) -> NTSC DVD (29.97i Fps)) to the letter for both DVD2AVI and TMPGEnc, and it worked like a charm... so I thought. I played the video on my computer and all seemed right in the world. Then, I tried to burn to a disc, and the resulting VOB files from DVD Maestro were to big to fit on the disc. I used DVD2ONE to condense them, and that fixed the problem. The DVD played fine. However, I don't want to use that method for my final product. Seems like a chincy way to come to a final product. I want the highest quality end result that I can get. I want to rip with Decrypter, separate with DVD2AVI, convert with TMPGEnc, author with DVD Maestro, and write with RecornNow Max. These are the programs that I own and am familiar with, they're tried and true in my experience, and I don't want to buy anything else.

I received advice directly from Xesdeeni2001 to use 2-pass VBR (VBR) and use the following link to obtain the settings to enter for Max, Min, and Average bit rates:

http://dvd-hq.info/Calculator.html?PHPSESSID=486712c5498c826e654332507515aa32

The results it gave me were: Max 9050; Average 5650; and Min 2250. My movie is 97 minutes long and my audio is 448Kbps. I also used the GOP Structure and Limit settings that this site gave me.

So, after TMPGEnc processed the job, the resulting m2v file was over the 4.37 GB needed to fit on a single-layer DVD-R. Naturally, when I authored the disc with DVD Maestro, the resulting VOBs were too big as well. Funny thing is that the resulting VOBs from DVD Maestro (as well as the m2v file from TMPGEnc) were bigger than the original movie files I ripped from my disc with DVD Decrypter. The original files totalled 4.42 GB, and the final ones that DVD Maestro gave me were around 5.20 GB. That's quite a significant difference.

I wonder if it has anything to do with the settings on the templates I loaded into TMPGEnc. By following Xesdeeni2001’s guide, I loaded the "DVD (NTSC)" and "unlock" templates. However, the only changes that I made to the settings associated with these templates were Aspect Ratio and Rate Control Mode (Settings, also) under the video tab, Source Aspect Ratio under Advanced, and GOP structure under the tab with the same name. I didn’t change anything to do with interlacing under either the Video or Advanced tabs, nor did I change DC Component Precision, Field Order, or anything else at all. I just went with the ones that loaded with the template. Would that have anything to do with it?

So, does anybody have any ideas for me? I'm guessing that what I need to do is just to play with the Max, Min, and Average until I get a resulting file that's small enough. Problem is, I'm not that familiar with all that. If anyone can give me some help on this, I'd be forever in your debt.

One further thing to note is that TMPGEnc took FOREVER to process this job. I don't normally use the program, so I don't know if this is out of the ordinary. I used Highest Quality (Very Slow) as my setting for Motion Search Precision. It took the job almost 27 hours to process. Is that the way it's supposed to work?

Thanks a ton, and sorry this is so long!! I just figured the more details, the better.
Jon

P.S. One more quick question: Is my source PAL Region 4 DVD from 2001 Interlaced or Progressive?

[FulciLives]

My suggestion is to use the new DGPulldown method. Here is a thread about it with some instructions ---> CLICK HERE

You can use AviSynth scripting but since you are using TMPGEnc Plus you actually can get away with loading the D2V project file directly into TMPGEnc Plus and bypass using AviSynth.

The main goal with the DGPulldown method is that you resize the video to NTSC spec (720x480 instead of 720x576) but you leave the frame rate at 25fps instead of trying to change it to 23.976fps or 29.970fps.

When you are done encoding you run DGPulldown on the video file with the "25fps ---> 29.970fps" option.

The end result? You get a NTSC compliant DVD video file that has the exact same running time or length as the original ... so ... there is no need to adjust the audio or subtitles. This can be a real life saver especially with sync issues.

The one little "trick" here is that the PAL DVD video source must be progressive. If it is not progressive then you need to deinterlace (which is probably best done with AviSynth and the decomb plug-in). Please note that DVD2AVI (as well as DGIndex) tend to report that a PAL source is INTERLACED even when it is not. You should "eyeball" it within something like VirtualDubMod. Load the D2V file into VirtualDubMod with an AviSynth AVS file ... keep it simple ... just a script to load the D2V file with no other commands ... now find a scene with motion and do a frame by frame on it and look for interlacing artifacts.

Some have suggested that DGPulldown should only really be used with progressive 25fps PAL video sources but I find that deinteracing PAL for this type of conversion results in a quality conversion. Some people may "bark" at me for saying so but that's my "take" on it.

Here is an actual AviSynth AVS script I used to convert a 25fps interlaced PAL DVD video to NTSC DVD format:

LoadPlugin("C:\COPY_DVD\DG_MPG_DEC\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\COPY_DVD\DECOMB\DECOMB521.DLL")
LoadPlugin("C:\COPY_DVD\Convolution3D_yuy2\Convolution3d.dll")
MPEG2Source("C:\DVDVolume\VIDEO_TS\MOVIE\movie.d2v")
FieldDeinterlace(full=false)
ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=false)
Convolution3D (0, 3, 4, 3, 4, 2.8, 0)
crop(8,14,-8,-14)
AddBorders(8,14,8,14)
LanczosResize(720,480)

As you can see I used DGIndex for this project instead of DVD2AVI ... this is a good idea! Also the cropping was to remove existing black. I added back the black "fresh clean" black ... this is to conserve bitrate while encoding. This script was used with CCE to create a 720x480 25fps MPV video file and then I used DGPulldown on it to get a NTSC compliant M2V video file.

I hope this helps

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
Here is another, perhaps easier-to-use, bitrate calculator. This is the one that I use myself ---> CLICK HERE

[FulciLives]

I thought I would add the following 2 links to this thread:

1.) https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=160433
2.) https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219852

These 2 threads talk about the "old" non DGIndex way of doing PAL DVD to NTSC DVD conversion.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[JohnnyWadd]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm curious about this new method, but for now, I want to perfect the "old" way. By "old way", I mean the way Xesdeeni2001 taught me. I pulled it off once before. I'd brought back a movie called Stickmen from my first trip to Australia and got it to work over here on my DVD-R discs.

I want to make a "perfected" copy using non-DGIndex first, then try to tackle the new method. I'm familiar with the old way, just not quite there yet. I'm going to try and perfect a copy that way... then I'll attempt the "new" way.

Thanks again for your help.
Jon

[JohnnyWadd]

What exactly do you mean by "interlaced artifacts"? Is it going to look like this? By that, I mean if it is interlaced will it always be this obvious? Will there always be two distinct overlapping images like this?



I downloaded VirtualDubMod, but I've never used it. So, I don't really know what I'm looking for. I searched for "interlaced VirtualDubMod", but I'm not having much luck finding stuff. That picture was the only thing I found, and my files look nothing like that at any point.


Thanks
Jon

P.S. I hope you guys can see this image. If you can't let me know.

[JohnnyWadd]

Hey, FulciLives. Thanks again for the help. Still waiting on an answer for the last post, the one about if I should see something that drastic if my video is interlaced. I'm patient, though. I understand you're a busy man. That's fine with me.

Anyway, while you're at it, can you explain some things to me? I was comparing what you used for AVISynth settings and your script with what Xesdeeni2001 wrote on his Standard Conversions page. Funny thing is, up till now, I'd never bothered to learn exactly what the differences in the settings were. I knew which ones worked, and I always used those. Would it be possible to get you to explain (not necessarily in great detail) why you chose different settings than the ones that Xesdeeni2001 chose? I've set it all up below (along with the settings I used on my original project that came out too big):

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Under VIDEO set up as follows:

iDCT Algorithm
FulciLives ---> Leave at default (32-bit SSE MMX)
Xesdeeni2001 ---> NOT SPECIFIED
JohnnyWadd Used ---> 32-bit SSE MMX

FIELD OPERATOIN
FulciLives ---> NONE
Xesdeeni2001 ---> NONE
JohnnyWadd Used ---> NONE

COLOR SPACE
FulciLives ---> YUV 4:2:2
Xesdeeni2001 ---> NOT SPECIFIED
JohnnyWadd Used ---> YUV 4:2:2

YUV -> RGB
FulciLives ---> TV SCALE
Xesdeeni2001 ---> NOT SPECIFIED
JohnnyWadd Used ---> PC SCALE

LUMINANCE FILTER
FulciLives ---> Leave at default (not checkmarked i.e., don't
use)
Xesdeeni2001 ---> NOT SPECIFIED
JohnnyWadd Used ---> Left at default

CLIP & RESIZE
FulciLives ---> Leave at default (not checkmarked i.e., don't
use)
Xesdeeni2001 ---> NOT SPECIFIED
JohnnyWadd Used ---> Left at default

Under AUDIO set up as follows:

TRACK NUMBER
# I UNDERSTAND THIS ONE. CHOOSES ALL AUDIO TRACKS
# INSTEAD OF JUST THE FIRST ONE.
FulciLives ---> NONE
Xesdeeni2001 ---> TRACK 1
JohnnyWadd Used ---> TRACK 1
# WHICH WAS THE CORRECT ONE

CHANNEL FORMAT
FulciLives ---> AUTO SELECT
Xesdeeni2001 ---> AUTO SELECT
JohnnyWadd Used ---> AUTO SELECT

DOLBY DIGITAL
FulciLives ---> DEMUX ALL TRACKS
Xesdeeni2001 ---> DEMUX
JohnnyWadd Used ---> DEMUX

MPEG AUDIO
FulciLives ---> DEMUX ALL TRACKS
Xesdeeni2001---> NOT SPECIFIED
JohnnyWadd Used ---> # I CAN'T REMEMBER - IS DEMUX A
# CHOICE?

48 -> 44.1KHz
FulciLives ---> Leave at default (OFF)
Xesdeeni2001 ---> OFF
JohnnyWadd Used ---> OFF

NORMALIZATION
FulciLives ---> Leave at default (not checkmarked i.e., don't use)
Xesdeeni2001---> NOT SPECIFIED
JohnnyWadd Used ---> Left at default

FulciLives' Progressive AVISynth Script:
(Uses AVISynth 2.5X)

LoadPlugin("MPEG2DEC3.DLL")
mpeg2source("D:\MOVIE\VIDEO_TS\movie.d2v")
LanczosResize(720,480)
AssumeFPS(23.976, true)
ConvertToRGB()

# I DON'T HAVE AVISynth 2.5X. CAN THIS SCRIPT BE USED
# IN 2.08? IF NOT, DO YOU HAVE A SCRIPT FOR THIS
# VERSION? I SUPPOSE I COULD JUST DOWNLOAD 2.5X, BUT
# I'VE NEVER USED IT. IS IT MUCH DIFFERENT?

FulciLives' Interlaced AVISynth Script:
(Uses AVISynth 2.08)

LoadPlugin("MPEG2DEC.dll")
LoadPlugin("SmoothDeinterlacer.dll")
mpeg2source("D:\MOVIE\VIDEO_TS\movie.d2v")
crop(0,0,720,576)

# WHY DID YOU ADD THIS LINE IN?
# TO CHANGE FROM WIDESCREEN TO FULLSCREEN?

SmoothDeinterlace(doublerate=true)
LanczosResize(720,480)
ChangeFPS(59.94)
SeparateFields()
SelectEvery(4,1,2)
Weave()
ConvertToRGB()

Xesdeeni2001's Interlaced AVISynth Script:
(Uses AVISynth 2.08)

LoadPlugin("MPEG2DEC.dll")
LoadPlugin("SmoothDeinterlacer.dll")
mpeg2Source("DRIVE:\PATH\VTS_xx_x.d2v")
SmoothDeinterlace(doublerate=true)
LanczosResize(720,480)
ChangeFPS(59.94) # or ConvertFPS(59.94)
SeparateFields()
SelectEvery(4,1,2)
Weave()
ConvertToRGB()

# I'M GUESSING THAT IT WON'T WORK TO RUN A
# PROGRESSIVE DVD THROUGH THE PREVIOUS SCRIPT
# MINUS THE SMOOTHDEINTERLACER STEPS, WILL IT?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All right, that's all I've got for now. Thanks again for your time. I'll probably have more questions on TMPGEnc. I just want to get past this interlaced vs. progressive portion before moving on.

I eagerly await your help.

Thanks again.
Jon

[FulciLives]

What exactly do you mean by "interlaced artifacts"? Is it going to look like this? By that, I mean if it is interlaced will it always be this obvious? Will there always be two distinct overlapping images like this?



I downloaded VirtualDubMod, but I've never used it. So, I don't really know what I'm looking for. I searched for "interlaced VirtualDubMod", but I'm not having much luck finding stuff. That picture was the only thing I found, and my files look nothing like that at any point.


Thanks
Jon

P.S. I hope you guys can see this image. If you can't let me know.

Well that is what interlaced video tends to look like. You can see it with motion. Like when someone is moving from left to right etc.

[FulciLives]

Under VIDEO set up as follows:

iDCT Algorithm
FulciLives ---> Leave at default (32-bit SSE MMX)
Xesdeeni2001 ---> NOT SPECIFIED
JohnnyWadd Used ---> 32-bit SSE MMX

I would leave this at default. I have no idea what it does. It's for P4 computers or something. Don't we all have that shit by now?

FIELD OPERATOIN
FulciLives ---> NONE
Xesdeeni2001 ---> NONE
JohnnyWadd Used ---> NONE

Well we all agree here.

COLOR SPACE
FulciLives ---> YUV 4:2:2
Xesdeeni2001 ---> NOT SPECIFIED
JohnnyWadd Used ---> YUV 4:2:2

Again we all agree here. I mean it doesn't make sense to use anything else which I guess is why Xesdeeni didn't specify.

YUV -> RGB
FulciLives ---> TV SCALE
Xesdeeni2001 ---> NOT SPECIFIED
JohnnyWadd Used ---> PC SCALE

TV SCALE as far as I am concerned. A DVD is 16-235 which is the same as TV SCALE whereas PC SCALE is 0-255

LUMINANCE FILTER
FulciLives ---> Leave at default (not checkmarked i.e., don't
use)
Xesdeeni2001 ---> NOT SPECIFIED
JohnnyWadd Used ---> Left at default

Leave at default.

CLIP & RESIZE
FulciLives ---> Leave at default (not checkmarked i.e., don't
use)
Xesdeeni2001 ---> NOT SPECIFIED
JohnnyWadd Used ---> Left at default

Leave at default.

Seems like you understand the AUDIO stuff so I deleted that ... no use in repeating it.

FulciLives' Progressive AVISynth Script:
(Uses AVISynth 2.5X)

LoadPlugin("MPEG2DEC3.DLL")
mpeg2source("D:\MOVIE\VIDEO_TS\movie.d2v")
LanczosResize(720,480)
AssumeFPS(23.976, true)
ConvertToRGB()

# I DON'T HAVE AVISynth 2.5X. CAN THIS SCRIPT BE USED
# IN 2.08? IF NOT, DO YOU HAVE A SCRIPT FOR THIS
# VERSION? I SUPPOSE I COULD JUST DOWNLOAD 2.5X, BUT
# I'VE NEVER USED IT. IS IT MUCH DIFFERENT?

You should be using AviSynth 2.5x by now. Forget using 2.08
Also the last line should be ConvertToRGB24() if you are using TMPGEnc Plus. If you are using CCE then it should be ConvertToYUY2()

FulciLives' Interlaced AVISynth Script:
Uses AVISynth 2.08

LoadPlugin("MPEG2DEC.dll")
LoadPlugin("SmoothDeinterlacer.dll")
mpeg2source("D:\MOVIE\VIDEO_TS\movie.d2v")
crop(0,0,720,576)

# WHY DID YOU ADD THIS LINE IN?
# TO CHANGE FROM WIDESCREEN TO FULLSCREEN?

SmoothDeinterlace(doublerate=true)
LanczosResize(720,480)
ChangeFPS(59.94)
SeparateFields()
SelectEvery(4,1,2)
Weave()
ConvertToRGB()

You don't need the crop(0,0,720,576) line.

Xesdeeni2001's Interlaced AVISynth Script:
Uses AVISynth 2.08

LoadPlugin("MPEG2DEC.dll")
LoadPlugin("SmoothDeinterlacer.dll")
mpeg2Source("DRIVE:\PATH\VTS_xx_x.d2v")
SmoothDeinterlace(doublerate=true)
LanczosResize(720,480)
ChangeFPS(59.94) # or ConvertFPS(59.94)
SeparateFields()
SelectEvery(4,1,2)
Weave()
ConvertToRGB()

# I'M GUESSING THAT IT WON'T WORK TO RUN A
# PROGRESSIVE DVD THROUGH THE PREVIOUS SCRIPT
# MINUS THE SMOOTHDEINTERLACER STEPS, WILL IT?

If you have a progressive source then you are better off either slowing it down to 23.976fps from 25fps (requires audio slow down as well) or just use the DGPulldown method (no audio change needed).

Please note that there is now a SmoothDeinterlacer for AviSynth 2.5x ... no need to use AviSynth 2.08 ever. Beware that one version of SmoothDeinterlacer is for YV12 video and one is for YUY2 video.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
Remember that for TMPGEnc you always want ConvertToTGB24() at the end. Do not forget the 24 part.

Remember that for CCE you always want ConvertToYUY2() at the end.

If you are using Xesdeeni's INTERLACED script then add interlaced=true inside the () so it looks like this ---> ConvertToRGB24(interlaced=true) or ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true)

[Baldrick]

dvd authoring is not video converting. moving you.

[Abond]

@JohnnyWadd
Xesdeeni is in fact the man who started the thread at doom9 in which dgpulldown was created by Donald Graft (aka neuron 2). Read it here:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=c405e91222e45d8d0b780cafb9ae4b30&threadid=88031
I think it is better to go this way.

[wheezer210]

Try this method:

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=206512&highlight=

I have converted several PAL disks to NTSC and trust me if done correctly you will be more than satisfied with the results.

[Abond]

This method I think has one minus that I don't like. You can not use the original 5.1 audio track (ac3) and instead have in the stream TMPG encoded mp2.

[wheezer210]

actually you can...I have not modified the guide, but if you use the AC3Machine frontend for Besweet you should be ok. this will allow you to convert the audio from a PAL(25FPS) to NTSC(23.97) without converting to .wav and still maintain the high qaulity 5.1. I have not tried it with AC3 Machine yet, but I still have the PAL disks I was working on and I may give it a go and see what happens.

[JohnnyWadd]

Sorry I've been out of the loop lately, guys. I'm a victim of Grand Theft Auto (not the game, the real thing). So, my mind's been a little out of it. I finally got my head straight, but now I'm staring down finals week.

So, obviously, the video has taken a back seat. As soon as School's Out For Summer (AC Reference), I'll get back on this. I'll let you guys know what I come up with.

Thanks for posting.
Jon

[JohnnyWadd]

All right, guys. I'm done with my semester, and my car's been dealt with as much as possible. Well, for now, anyway. So, I'm back in the game on figuring this damned thing out. I'm going to start digging away again. On a limited basis, at least. I'm moving at the end of the month.

Bottom line, I'll post when I can, and whenever I figure stuff out or have questions, I'll update.

Thanks Again
Jon

[JohnnyWadd]

All right, guys. I decided to scrap the "old way" and try this new DGPulldown method.

Okay, here's what I did. I bought a commercial DVD of an Australian movie. It's widescreen, and I'm pretty sure it's progressive. I used VirtualDubMod and looked for "Interlacing Artifacts", but couldn't see anything obvious. If this is interlaced, they hid it well. Of course, I've never actually seen a first-hand example of "Interlacing Artifacts". Just saw pictures on the web. My DVD didn't do anything like what I saw out there.

First, demuxing. I used Donald Graft's DGIndex to get an audio and video file. I used the following settings:

VIDEO
iDCT Algorithm --> 32-bit SSE MMX
Field Operation --> None
YUV -> RGB --> TV Scale
Did nothing with Luminance Filter or Clipping

AUDIO
Output Method --> Demux All Tracks
Track Number --> Track 1
Dolby Digital Decode --> Dynamic Range Control
--> Normal
48 -> 44.1KHz --> Off
Did nothing with Normalization

Did nothing with STREAM or OPTION

I then wrote the following AviSynth script to resize:

Loadplugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\DGDecode.dll")
MPEG2Source("C:\The Man Who Sued
God\DGPulldown\DGIndex\Demuxed.d2v")
LanczosResize(720,480)
ConvertToRGB24(interlaced=false)

I loaded this AviSynth script into TMPGEnc, then selected ES (Video Only). I loaded and unlocked the PAL template. I made changes to the settings. The changes are as follows:

VIDEO
Stream Type --> MPEG-2 Video
Size --> 720 X 480 pixels
Aspect Ratio --> 16:9 Display [The original is
widescreen]
Frame Rate --> 25 fps
Rate Control Mode --> 2-Pass VBR [Obtained the
settings with a bitrate calculator]
Settings:
Maximum -> 9050 kb/s
Average -> 5350 kb/s
Minimum -> 2100 kb/s
Bitrate --> 7000 kbits/sec
VBV --> 224 KB
Profile & Level --> Main Profile & Main Level
(MP & ML)
Video Format --> PAL
Encode Mode --> Non-Interlace
YUV Format --> 4:2:0
DC Component Precision --> 9 Bits
Motion Search Precision --> Highest Quality
(Very Slow)

ADVANCED
Video Source Type --> Non-interlace
(progressive)
Field Order --> Bottom field first (Field B)
Source Aspect Ration --> 16:9 625 Line (PAL)
Video Arrange Method --> Full Screen (Keep
Aspect Ratio)

GOP STRUCTURE
Number of I Picture in GOP --> 1
Number of P Picture in GOP --> 4
Number of B Picture in GOP --> 1
Output Interval of Sequence Header --> 1
Max Number of Frames in GOP --> 15

Did nothing with QUANTIZE MATRIX

After processing with TMPGEnc, I ran the output file through Donald Graft's DGPulldown with the 25 -> 29.97 setting selected. I didn't change any other defaults. Got a question about this. Does DGPulldown actually modify the video file? The way I understand it is that it doesn't modify the video per se, only the flags. I don't really understand what the flags are, though.

The next step was to use ac3 Delay Corrector to eliminate the 16 ms delay on my audio file. I'm not sure why I had to do this. First, I assume that "ms" stands for "milliseconds". If I'm correct, that's not much. Besides, I don't understand why that delay shouldn't be there. Is it because modifying the video with TMPGEnc and DGPulldown produced a file that requires an audio file with no delay whatsoever? Here's a link to my other post about the audio:

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=269850

That's what I've done so far. I'm going to use DVD Maestro to link it all up. I let you know what I come up with.

So, does it look like I did everything right? If not, can anybody tell me what was wrong? Also, if something is wrong, can you explain why? I don't really understand what a lot of this stuff does. I've just found these settings from various places across the web. I'd really like to understand it more, but most explanations are much too complicated for me. I'm an educated man, but not so much in this area. I'm fairly intelligent, though, and I catch on quick.

If anyone could give me a few pointers, I'd appreciate it. I thank you in advance for your help.

Jon

Special Thanks to Xesdeeni2001, John "FulciLives" Coleman, and Donald "neuron2" Graft. I've learned a ton from these three guys. I list them in that order because that's the order in which I learned from them. There are others to thank but I can think of who they are right off the top of my head.

[Guest34343]

Your overall process is correct. I'll make a few observations, however.

First, when dealing with MPEG2 source, VirtualDubMod is not a reliable tool to detect interlacing. An MPEG2 file may have pulldown flags set that produce an interlaced clip after decoding. The MPEG2 support in VirtualDubMod does not honor these pulldown flags. For reliable assessment of the presence of interlaced frames in MPEG2, use DGMPGDec (with field operation None) to serve the video to VirtualDub. I'll proceed now as if you have properly identified your source material as progressive.

Second, your conversion to RGB is not ideal. It may be OK with this movie (I don't know about your movie), but it can lead to the chroma upsampling bug for some movies. For fully reliable upsampling, use the upConv=true option:

MPEG2Source("file.d2v",upConv=true)
ConvertToRGB()

Third, in response to your query, DGPulldown does not alter the video picture content. It just adds flags to the MPEG2 syntax that cause the display process in the DVD player to repeat the display of some fields of the video.

Fourth, I wouldn't bother correcting 16ms of audio skew; it's too small. Sometimes the authoring program allows you to correct for skew. If so, use that in preference to AC3DelayCorrector.

[AlecWest]

For me, the ability to do PAL-to-NTSC conversions used to be a Holy Grail, hehe. But since then, I've found a simple solution. Not everyone would like it ... but it does work. Simply put, I bought a region-free format-free player that will play any DVD from anywhere, plug the audio and S-Video into my Hauppauge capture card, and capture the PAL DVD as it plays (in NTSC, of course).

My most recent attempt involved "The Quiet Earth," a 1985 film that has never been released on DVD in North America. And according to Amazon.com, the only VHS copies available are used. But in England, it's available cheaply on PAL DVD:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000BXC0X/

So, I ordered it from them ... cost me roughly $16 including shipping. When it arrived, I made an NTSC backup of it as described above with my $50 Yamakawa DVD-275 region/format-free player:

http://yamakawadirect.com/275_detail.shtml

And the backup bears no discernable difference from the original.

[JohnnyWadd]

I need to resurrect this old thread. Sorry to post to something that's as old as this is. It's just that when I was working on this project originally, I ran into troubles once I started with DVD Maestro. I got so damned frustrated that I put everything down. Here it is a few months later, and I want to show this DVD to my girlfriend, but can't because the conversion kicked my ass the first time. So, I'm going to try again.

I'll definitely be needing some help on this one. Hopefully FulciLives, neuron2, Xesdeeni2001, and any other people who know more than me are still out there and are still willing to give a kid a hand. I don't think I'll be able to do this alone.

Wish Me Luck!!
Jon

[FulciLives]

I've used DVD Maestro but find it such a pain-in-the-ass that I hardly ever use it SO I am no expert ... not sure if I can help ... but the point is ... all you said is that you had some trouble using DVD Maestro with an indication that the problem was with your converted source files.

Well ... you will have to give a lot more details please

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[JohnnyWadd]

Well, if I had any other authoring software than Maestro, I'd use that. Unfortunately, I don't. Can you direct me to something better?

As an update, I just finished encoding with TMPGEnc Plus 2.55. Now I'm going to run DGPulldown and try using Maestro. I'll keep you posted.

Jon

[JohnnyWadd]

Okay, I'm wondering what's going on. I finished the disc, and it works on the computer, but when I put it in either of my DVD Players, I get a message on the screen that says that disc cannot be played due to area restrictions. I'm wondering what happened. I'm wondering whether it's still being recognized as PAL format, or if I just didn't get the region 4 encoding removed. Maybe you guys can tell me what you think.

Here's what I did. I followed the same format listed before. Demuxed with DGIndex, wrote an AviSynth Script, encoded with TMPGEnc, ran the .m2v through DGPulldown, then compiled with DVD Maestro. You can read the settings in my previous post in this thread. However, the script I used was different. Here's what I used:

Loadplugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\DGDecode.dll")
MPEG2Source("C:\Sued God\Demuxed.d2v",upConv=true)
LanczosResize(720,480)
ConvertToRGB()

Something funny happened when I used Maestro, though, and I'm wondering if this is where my problem is. After running DGPulldown, I opened DVD Maestro and imported my audio and video. When I tried to insert them into the "Movie 1" window, I got a funny message. It said:

"The video signal type of the asset does not agree with the current TV System setting in Project Properties. Do you want to force the TV System setting to PAL?"

If I click "no", another message pops up. It says:

"A DVD volume cannot contain both PAL and NTSC video assets. Please make sure that the video material is one or the other and that the material agrees with the project properties."

If I click "yes", the lower left corner of the "Movie 1" window says "29.97 FPS Drop" and I end up with a disc that I can't play in my DVD Player.

I'm getting pretty frustrated with this project. I don't understand why I can't seem to figure this out. Hell, most of you do this stuff several times a day, but I can't seem to figure it out one time so that I can watch my Australian movie in the United States. This is ridiculous.

HELP!!!! DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHAT I'M DOING WRONG?! I'M SUCH A DUMBASS!!

Thanks for reading.
Jon

[manono]

So you encoded it for 25 fps at 720x480 in TMPGEnc (and you're sure you didn't wind up at some NTSC framerate or PAL resolution) and then ran DGPulldown for 25->29.97? You should be OK, then. I don't use Maestro either. Why don't you run a test authoring in Muxman to check if the M2V is compliant? If it accepts it and everything is OK when done (audio in synch, for example), then you'll know either there's something wrong with Maestro, or you did something wrong in Maestro. Either way, you might look for another authoring app (like Muxman). The reason I suggest Muxman, for testing anyway, is that it's free, it's good, it's easy to use, I've used it dozens of time after running M2Vs through DGPulldown, and if you've done all the steps correctly up to then, it'll accept the M2V and the audio.

Area restrictions? Did you make this thing Region 4 by mistake? You can put the DVD in the drive and open DVD Decrypter and it'll tell you if a region was set or if it's region free.

[JohnnyWadd]

That's funny. I was doing just that with DVD Decrypter... probably while you were suggesting that to me. Here's what I found out:

Region: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, -
RCE Protection: No

Then, when I switch to IFO Mode to see what's on there, I find the following under the Stream Processing tab:

0xE0 - Video - 720 X 576 (PAL) / 4:3
0x80 - Audio - AC3 / 6ch / English

That sounds to me like somewhere along the way, the video never got converted to NTSC. Instead, the end result was a PAL disc that I can't play. The way I see it, that would've been caused by either TMPGEnc during encoding or by Maestro when I clicked "Yes" to force the settings.

Can somebody take a good look at my TMPGEnc settings from my previous post? The settings I used a few months back are identical to the ones I used a few days ago with the exception of different bitrates (I used a different bitrate calculator). I know that wouldn't cause it, though. If you guys think they're okay, I'll assume that Maestro is to blame.

Thanks in advance.
Jon

[FulciLives]

Loadplugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\DGDecode.dll")
MPEG2Source("C:\Sued God\Demuxed.d2v",upConv=true)
LanczosResize(720,480)
ConvertToRGB()

This appears to be A-OK for the most part but I have a comment about it.

I have never used the upConv command but according to my version of DGIndex here are the options:

upConv: 0 to 2 (default: 0)

Upsample from 4:2:0 to YUY2 (4:2:2) or RGB24.
- 0: Do not upsample
- 1: Upsample to YUY2 (ignored if input is already 4:2:2)
- 2: Upsample to RGB24

Now maybe you have a different version of DGIndex than what I have but it would seem to be that you would want to use upConv(2) since this is for conversion to RGB24 which is the colorspace of TMPGEnc Plus.

Doing so would mean that you would cut the last line of the script however I should point out that the correct last line, if needed, would be ConvertToRGB24()

However this has nothing to do with frame rate or size. So still your error must be with either TMPGEnc Plus or Maestro.

1.) Make sure the file TMPGEnc Plus outputs is 720x480 25fps ... try loading it into VirtualDubMod and check the file properties. Once this is determined run DGPulldown making sure that you select the 25 ---> 29.970 option. Load again into VirtualDubMod and it should report 720x480 29.970fps

2.) I cannot offer any help with Maestro but either you are doing something wrong with it (once step one is confirmed) or perhaps Maestro just doesn't like the DGPulldown output. As I said in an earlier post in this thread I've only used Maestro a few times and so far never with a video processed in this way (using DGPulldown).

For the record I've used TMPGEnc DVD Author without issue when creating my PAL to NTSC with DGPulldown. TMPGEnc DVD Author does offer a free trial period with full functionality. I think the trial period is 30 days. You may want to try downloading it and giving it a try if you are sure that you are getting through step 1 above correctly.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
When using TMPGEnc Plus you must go into "manual mode". If you try to use the "wizard mode" it will get "confused" since the source will show up with a NTSC frame size but with a PAL fps.

[FulciLives]

I loaded this AviSynth script into TMPGEnc, then selected ES (Video Only). I loaded and unlocked the PAL template. I made changes to the settings. The changes are as follows:

VIDEO
Stream Type --> MPEG-2 Video
Size --> 720 X 480 pixels
Aspect Ratio --> 16:9 Display [The original is
widescreen]
Frame Rate --> 25 fps
Rate Control Mode --> 2-Pass VBR [Obtained the
settings with a bitrate calculator]
Settings:
Maximum -> 9050 kb/s
Average -> 5350 kb/s
Minimum -> 2100 kb/s
Bitrate --> 7000 kbits/sec
VBV --> 224 KB
Profile & Level --> Main Profile & Main Level
(MP & ML)
Video Format --> PAL
Encode Mode --> Non-Interlace
YUV Format --> 4:2:0
DC Component Precision --> 9 Bits
Motion Search Precision --> Highest Quality
(Very Slow).

I don't know why I didn't "catch" this before. Probably because I thought you understood how to encode but clearly you are confused.

You must encode (or re-encode) the PAL source to a NTSC frame size but with a PAL fps. As we have been saying you will be going from 720x576 25fps to 720x480 25fps

You must encode as NTSC with TMPGEnc Plus but in "manual mode" make sure 25fps is selected.

What you did above was feed TMPGEnc Plus (via your AviSynth script) a 720x480 25fps source but you used the PAL template meaning TMPGEnc Plus would have automatically resized to PAL standard 720x576 resolution thus giving you an output of 720x576 25fps which is WRONG.

So it seems you did in fact do the re-encoding incorrectly ... no wonder Maestro is having fits!

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
Been a while since I've used TMPGEnc Plus for this (I long ago switched to CCE and only use TMPGEnc Plus once in a blue moon) but in order to get the GOP correct I think the best thing would be to load the PAL template. Then load the UNLOCK template so you can make changes. Change the setting from PAL to NTSC. Everyting else then should be (knock on wood) ok.

[JohnnyWadd]

So, that one single setting was to blame?

[manono]

If it converted you back to 720x576, then yes.

[FulciLives]

So, that one single setting was to blame?

If it converted you back to 720x576, then yes.

As I mentioned above check your file properties (the original file that TMPGEnc Plus spit out) with VirtualDubMod (there are probably other options) to check the frame size and the fps.

I do think that your TMPGEnc Plus encoder settings were wrong and that TMPGEnc Plus in turn spit out a 720x576 25fps file instead of a 720x480 25fps file.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman