kb is 1000 or 1024?

[striker9]

I'm a little lost when it comes to kilobits, bytes, etc.. in video editing/encoding programs. I was taught that a byte=8 bits, kilobyte=1024 bytes, kilobit=1024 bits. In these programs two things confuse me. One point of confusion is 'what does kb (or mb) stand for?' I've seen it stand for kilobytes and for kilobits. Another point is 'how much is a kb (or mb)?' I've seen it used for 1000 and 1024. I would like to know so I can get my filesizes more accurate.

[Baldrick]

read http://www.t1shopper.com/tools/calculate/

[jagabo]

Depends on the program. Usage of the terms is very sloppy.

[chrisg67]

According to a page I found on wikipedia we should call 10^3 (1000) "kilo byte" and 2^10 (1024) "kiki byte".

Wikipedia page is here: -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibibyte

This has been introduced by IEC apparently to "help prevent the confusion common among storage media".

I guess this is going to cause other confusions as kilo byte has meant 1024 bytes for a long time - that's progress for you!

The confusion the IEC are referring to I would guess is where you buy a 4.7GB DVD-ROM and can only store 4.3 GiB on it.

[lordsmurf]

I want a 10 yottabyte hard drive.

[chrisg67]

Shouldn't that be 10 yobibyte? ( more storage in a yobibyte ) Already I'm less confused - thakyou IEC.

Yikes that's a lot of storage, best wait a decade for them to come out, and then two more decades for Microsoft to upgrade (kludge) the FAT file system to deal with that much memory.

I've heard of people sticking mini-itx systems together with 4x 250 Gib drives and ethernet or WiFi to act as Tebibyte servers in their homes - You'd need a lot of them though (1,125,899,906,842,624) - that's per yobibyte!.

Scary stuff!

[edDV]

A kilobyte is 1024 bytes unless you are a disk salesman trying to inflate capacity. He just counts bytes.

That is why a 4.7GB DVD (4,706,074,624 bytes) can only record 4.488 GB of data.

[yoda313]

Microsoft to upgrade (kludge) the FAT file system

Actually fat doesn't exist anymore for windows. XP uses NTFS (new technology file system).

I believe Windows ME was the last Microsoft OS to use FAT.

[thecoalman]

I haven't seen this mentioned, bit is usually denoted by a small b and B byte by a large B.

[psx_pirate]

Microsoft to upgrade (kludge) the FAT file system

Actually fat doesn't exist anymore for windows. XP uses NTFS (new technology file system).

I believe Windows ME was the last Microsoft OS to use FAT.

Actually fat32 does still exist for windows xp .... you can choose to have either fat32 or ntfs as your file system when you first install win xp (although why anyone would want fat32 is beyond me ... unless of course they have a dual boot system win 98 and win xp and they need to access other drives with both version of windows in which case you would need to use fat32 as win 98/me cannot read ntfs drives)

[MOVIEGEEK]

I always wanted a Veggiebyte sandwich. :P

As was mentioned earlier,a binary kilobyte is 1024 bytes and should be abbr. by using "KiB" but it's commonly written as "KB".

[lordsmurf]

NT never really meant "new technology", and NTFS was the filesystem created for Windows NT. The name never changed. That "new technology" was developed in the 1980s, and really is not all that much newer than FAT16 tech.

A DVD only holds 4.38GB for single-layer discs. The 4.7 stuff is how it gets counted by salesmen, makes their penis feel bigger I guess. It's just a lie and a con as far as most people are concerned, the number base of 1024 should be used.

[yoda313]

Actually fat32 does still exist for windows xp .... you can choose to have either fat32 or ntfs as your file system when you first install win xp

Well for all things considered its essentially dead.

[b1tchm4gn3t]

Actually fat32 does still exist for windows xp .... you can choose to have either fat32 or ntfs as your file system when you first install win xp (although why anyone would want fat32 is beyond me ... unless of course they have a dual boot system win 98 and win xp and they need to access other drives with both version of windows in which case you would need to use fat32 as win 98/me cannot read ntfs drives)

I installed XP home on a laptop last night and left it as fat32 for the simple fact that the customer could go back to 98 MUCH easier since I left it at fat32.

[yoda313]

Actually fat32 does still exist for windows xp .... you can choose to have either fat32 or ntfs as your file system when you first install win xp (although why anyone would want fat32 is beyond me ... unless of course they have a dual boot system win 98 and win xp and they need to access other drives with both version of windows in which case you would need to use fat32 as win 98/me cannot read ntfs drives)

I installed XP home on a laptop last night and left it as fat32 for the simple fact that the customer could go back to 98 MUCH easier since I left it at fat32.

????? But what about the 4gb limit???? I'd be pissed if that happened to me.

[gll99]

????? But what about the 4gb limit???? I'd be pissed if that happened to me.

I keep a small fat32 partition for the dual boot and the rest of my partitions and drives are NTFS. I agree that the 4 gig limit of fat32 is a pain and it was originally the main reason I switched to XP.

I found a site with utilities which claim to allow reading NTFS partitions from win98. I posted a link in another thread on security. If I find it I'll edit it back in here.

edited in by gll99:

http://www.sysinternals.com/Utilities/NtfsWindows98.html

I can't vouch for the tool but the site looks legit with a variety of free tools.

[b1tchm4gn3t]

????? But what about the 4gb limit???? I'd be pissed if that happened to me.

it wasnt for you. LOL..Im kidding. This was for someone with an older laptop and knows NOTHING about computers and is probably better off with 98. That thing isnt even net-ready and has NO dvd-rom or burner of any kind in it..I think they are safe with fat32.

[b1tchm4gn3t]

oh...that laptop has a 2 gig hdd! (I always forget to mention lil shit like that)

[yoda313]

oh...that laptop has a 2 gig hdd! (I always forget to mention lil shit like that)

Well than I guess a 4gig limit wouldn't affect it at all

[b1tchm4gn3t]

nope

[Jester700]

Actually fat32 does still exist for windows xp .... you can choose to have either fat32 or ntfs as your file system when you first install win xp (although why anyone would want fat32 is beyond me ... unless of course they have a dual boot system win 98 and win xp and they need to access other drives with both version of windows in which case you would need to use fat32 as win 98/me cannot read ntfs drives)

I installed XP home on a laptop last night and left it as fat32 for the simple fact that the customer could go back to 98 MUCH easier since I left it at fat32.

Many Mac OS'es can't natively read NTFS either. I took my external drive to a Protools based studio after recording tracks at home (good thing I had a CD backup), and he couldn't read them. After reformatting to Fat32, no problem. I had no qualms about max file size, since this is an audio storage drive; even at 24 bit & stereo 4GB gives you a few hours of recording.

[ttn]

Hi,

there is a common mis-understanding of what kb, mb and similar means.
So even though I will tell you the "truth" below, it won't help you .

The International System of Units (SI) have defined the standard prefixes as shown in http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/prefixes.html

By the above link you can conclude:

1) kb means 1000b (where b kan be anything like bit or bytes - who knows?).

2) Mb means 1000000*b, mb means 1/1000*b

3) There is nothing defined as Kb or KB. It is most possible a bad use of kb or kB.

4) kb or Kb does not mean 1024b even though many uses it this way.

5) It is a nice convention to mean b=bit and B=byte so
1kb = 1000 bits and 1kB = 1000 bytes, but you need to define b and B as bits and bytes in your own context.

But unfortunately the above will not help you even though it is correct. The fact is that the computer industry and computer science have made their own conventions and definitions that collide with other world wide standards (that are several 100 years old).


Happy new year to you all from Denmark (a tiny spot in Europe).

[edDV]

Hi,

there is a common mis-understanding of what kb, mb and similar means.
So even though I will tell you the "truth" below, it won't help you .

The International System of Units (SI) have defined the standard prefixes as shown in http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/prefixes.html

By the above link you can conclude:

1) kb means 1000b (where b kan be anything like bit or bytes - who knows?).

2) Mb means 1000000*b, mb means 1/1000*b

3) There is nothing defined as Kb or KB. It is most possible a bad use of kb or kB.

4) kb or Kb does not mean 1024b even though many uses it this way.

5) It is a nice convention to mean b=bit and B=byte so
1kb = 1000 bits and 1kB = 1000 bytes, but you need to define b and B as bits and bytes in your own context.

But unfortunately the above will not help you even though it is correct. The fact is that the computer industry and computer science have made their own conventions and definitions that collide with other world wide standards (that are several 100 years old).


Happy new year to you all from Denmark (a tiny spot in Europe).

That sounds like the justification for advertising total bits on the drive rater than useful data capacity. All operating systems you are likely to encounter are organized by 1024 bits to a byte.

Also conventional usage is small letter for bit and capital for byte.

1B = 1024b

If you use b when you mean B you expose yourself as somewhat clueless and in need of interpretation. This often leads to highly confusing forum threads.

[striker9]

1B = 1024b

Here is where I'm confused again, I thought 1B(yte)=8b(its)?

Anyway I made a list of the tools I use and what their usage of the terms is. If anyone else needs to know here it is

avidemux 2:	1MB = 1048576 bytes
CCE SP Trial: 	1MB = 1000000 bytes, 1MiB = 1048576 bytes
HC 016 beta: 	1kbyte = 1024 bytes
HeadAC3he: 	1MB = 1048576 bytes

[davideck]

1B = 1024b

Here is where I'm confused again, I thought 1B(yte)=8b(its)?

You are correct striker9. 1 Byte = 8 bits.

[edDV]

Oops, byte is 8 bits.

Meant to say OS are organized 1024 bytes to a KB.

1MB = 1024KB and so on ...

[ttn]

Hi again,

it's all just fun with these prefixes and how programmers use these or is it .

From the list that striker9 shows it is only the CCE program that does it properly:

1MB = 1000000 bytes according to the SI prefix standard http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/prefixes.html

1MiB = 1048576 bytes according to the SI prefix system for binary multiples
http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html (see Examples and comparisons with SI prefixes).

As I said earlier, it doesn't help you at all as many programmers and other people don't bother to learn the SI system.

It is like the convention that 100c = 1$. But I am a computer programmer and like powers of 2, so I decide that it should be 128c = 1$.
Or what about by 1kg of minced meat and getting 1024g.
Or my car going 100 km/h for one hour means going 100*1024 m?

My advise to you is to accept that when taking computer terms, the following may apply, depending at whoever writes it (you can't know it for sure - but the order of magnitude is OK):

1 kB = 1KB = 1000B = 1024B : a thousand bytes approximately
1 MB = 1000 kB = 1000000B = 1048576B : a million bytes approximately
etc.

Regards Torben.

[DereX888]

well, with all due respect to SI, IEC etc standard-makers-and-definers:

whenever i chat with ppl, i use "kb" for kilobits, and "kB" for kilobytes, and so far everyone in the world understood it, from China to Sweden, even though its not defined like this by any SI/IEC/commitee...

With denomination "mega" it should always be used as capital "M" (i.e. Mb=megabits, MB=megabytes), because small letter "m" denominates "milli" (1/1000th part of something), its all simple - the denomination and shorts come from good old pre-mafia guys, the Romans ( ) and its been in use always like this.
If anyone will tell you that 1mb is a one megabyte or one megabits, that means he is plain stupid - because it means one milibyte or one millibit (bytes or bits - make your pick, since small b or capital B is usually a mess in a computer world), but nevertheless of bits/bytes - small "m" means only and exactly a one thousand part of either one

The parts of one (1/1xxxxx) are described in small letters, the multipliers (1*1xxxxx) are described in capital letters.
Small letter = small part (piko, nano, micro etc), big letter = big numbers (Mega, Giga, Peta, Tera etc), thats the easiest rule of thumb to remember it
Therefore had Romans knew bits and bytes, to be consistant with their numerology I am sure they would have described bit as small "b" and byte as capital "B"

And since this is my last post in this year most likely:
Happy New Year A.D. MMVI to everyone :P


edit: yes, I know, someone will bash me in a second that "kilo" is actually defined with small "k", but using capital "K" for same kilo denomination is probably common enough for this exception to be used simultaneusly

[AngusMacGyver]

Hi again,

it's all just fun with these prefixes and how programmers use these or is it .

From the list that striker9 shows it is only the CCE program that does it properly:

1MB = 1000000 bytes according to the SI prefix standard http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/prefixes.html

1MiB = 1048576 bytes according to the SI prefix system for binary multiples
http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html (see Examples and comparisons with SI prefixes).

As I said earlier, it doesn't help you at all as many programmers and other people don't bother to learn the SI system.

It is like the convention that 100c = 1$. But I am a computer programmer and like powers of 2, so I decide that it should be 128c = 1$.
Or what about by 1kg of minced meat and getting 1024g.
Or my car going 100 km/h for one hour means going 100*1024 m?

My advise to you is to accept that when taking computer terms, the following may apply, depending at whoever writes it (you can't know it for sure - but the order of magnitude is OK):

1 kB = 1KB = 1000B = 1024B : a thousand bytes approximately
1 MB = 1000 kB = 1000000B = 1048576B : a million bytes approximately
etc.

Regards Torben.

Excelent comparision, US$ = 128c was great!
I've never understood why stupid programmers have invented such "rounding". We live in a "ten based" world. Imagine if we had to count everything in hexa or octal? Nobody (in real world) thinks in binary. Multiples aren't determined by what they are multiplying.
For me, "k" means 1000, period.
And, no... I'm not a disk seller.

Happy new year!

[jagabo]

Excelent comparision, US$ = 128c was great!
I've never understood why stupid programmers have invented such "rounding".

It makes perfect sense to a programmer or digital electronics engineer. Since everything is powers of 2 in binary computers 1024 (2^10) is a "natural" value. This was especially useful in the early days of computers when memory came in sizes like 4096 (2^12) bytes, 8192 (2^13) bytes, etc.

We live in a "ten based" world. Imagine if we had to count everything in hexa or octal?

Yeah, like ounces in a pound, pints in a gallon?